[John Casler]

I have posted this tweak before and also recently responded to a similar thread but I thought I should post some of my new findings (listenings)

I think most of you have heard about the silver treatments available from WALKER and MAPLESHADE.

While the measure of improvement varies from system to system, I, just today had the opportunity to "hear" a specific and significant difference this tweak makes.

I have AudioQuest Volcano Speaker cable ($2400 8 foot pair list).  I mention this to illustrate that even with "high end" parts, a simple tweak can "still" make a significant difference.

Yesterday, I had a client bring in a pair of speakers to compare to the 626Rs.  So I disconnected the 626Rs and plugged my cables into his speakers.

I should mention that I had previously "Silver Treated" these speaker cables.

Well, I screwed up and blew an amp fuse, by accidentally letting the leads touch.

I replaced the fuse and proceeded to do the comparison (of which there wasn't really any)

Later as I re-hooked the 626Rs back up and sat down to listen to a "reference cut" from Tears for Fears called "Woman in Chains", I noticed that a very (usually) prominent sound of a triangle being played "anti-beat" from the right speaker was absent.

"Oh crap", I said to myself.  I thought that the "shorting incident" had done some bad things to my amp.

Well, I decided to check all the connections and they were all OK, but while I was checking I decided to pull the Banana plugs and "re-silver" them.

Sat down played the cut again and "BAM" there it was, the triangle being played very off beat (to distraction).

So let me tell you.  This little $40-$70 tweak has the potential to make a greater difference than most any other change in your system except new speakers.  This is assuming you have a rather revealing and resolving system to start with.

If you have this cut (Woman in Chains by Tears for Fears) I suggest doing the experiment and seeing if you hear a difference.  

Now I might add a "caveat".  Since we all have different hearing sensitivities, your results may be different than mine.  That particular frequency may be at the edge of my hearing ability and the difference may be more "prominent" due to the fact that I either hear it or I don't.  If your hearing is good enough that you hear it even at low levels, you may only be able to hear a gradient increase or decrease.

And for all you VMPS owners who "do" decide to try some of these silver treatments, here's another little hint.

Brian's binding posts are some of the best available.  They are solid and the post itself is solid (not hollow like some others.

Since my speaker cables were built to "biwire" a new pair of RM40s and I am currently using them on a single wire 626R, I use both a spade and banana connection at the speaker.

The binding post nut is of course on a threaded post.

Remove that nut all the way and "slather" that post with the silver treatment.  Then coat both the speaker and nut surfaces that contact the the spade (also coat the spade at all contact areas to the nut and speaker)

Then screw on the nut and all the threaded surface will be coated.

If using bananas, generously coat the bananas before inserting into the nut.

Get ready, it is gonna sound sweet.

I also have another tweak for the 626R which I will post in another thread.  It is the "Hippy" tweak for the 626R.

[Marbles]

I also have another tweak for the 626R which I will post in another thread. It is the "Hippy" tweak for the 626R.
_________________
...

You gonna smoke it, or tie dye it?  

[John Casler]

I also have another tweak for the 626R which I will post in another thread. It is the "Hippy" tweak for the 626R.
_________________
...

You gonna smoke it, or tie dye it?  

Nope,  gonna "grow it" HAIR that is

Now we have a ponytail and a beard

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=11093&highlight=

[John B]

I should mention that I had previously "Silver Treated" these speaker cables.

Remove that nut all the way and "slather" that post with the silver treatment.

OK, so basically what we have here is a copper metal being coated with a silver metal, creating two different types of conducting material for the signal to pass through.   I just can't logically figure out how that could be of benefit.   But if people are hearing positive effects, it might be worth a try.  Since I don't have terminations on my speaker cable, and the material is a stick of silver, then the only thing I would be treating would be the copper binding posts on the 626Rs...correct?

[zybar]

John,

My only comment is - Tears for Fears as a reference?    

Just kidding of course...

George

[John Casler]

OK, so basically what we have here is a copper metal being coated with a silver metal, creating two different types of conducting material for the signal to pass through.   I just can't logically figure out how that could be of benefit.   But if people are hearing positive effects, it might be worth a try.  Since I don't have terminations on my speaker cable, and the material is a stick of silver, then the only thing I would be treating would be the copper binding posts on the 626Rs...correct?

Hi John,

Well you would be surprised at how many different metals are used in the signal chain.  

Brass, copper, silver, etc. are all there in most systems nowdays.

In fact even many Interconnects that claim to be silver are many times terminated with copper plated brass and so on.

My guess is the Silver treatments seem to help in two "key" areas.

In any "compression" to "tension" connection we certainly have areas of the metals that are "pressed" together.  As the electrical impulse travels from one piece to the other it does so "through" these areas that are basically molecule to molecule.

But... at some point the two metal parts are not touching (but almost).  I beleive that it is thought that in these spaces, some of the electrical energy "jumps" the small gap and arcs to the other.  I think that it is beleived that when this "arcing" takes place that it might negatively impact the signal.

I think the "metal paste" keeps this "arcing" from taking place.

Also I think it might actually allow a "cleaner" and greater contact area and level of contact.

I am a strong beleiver that the weakest links in most system are the "contact" points where components pass electrical information to each other.

These contact points are not only limited in their "electro-flow" characteristics, but are more subject to vibration effects (IMO) that may cause even the areas that are in direct contact to move at a microscopic level and resonant frequency.

We all know that a lose wire, cable or solder job can cause intermitant signal problems, well this is the same thing on a micro-scale, but it can be heard in a sensitive system.

This is just me "blathering" and not some Marketing hype I heard from anyone specifically, so disregard it if you are an electrical engineer and know I'm on the wrong track.

[John Casler]

John,

My only comment is - Tears for Fears as a reference?    

Just kidding of course...

George

     

Hey George,

Now I know you have a couple "T 4 F" albums somewhere in that huge collection.

Actually, there are two cuts from them, that "are" good demonstrations of particular performance characteristics.

Both "Seeds of Love" (which is very Beatle like), and "Woman in Chains", offer some incredible musical creativity, as well as specific sonic attributes.

"Seeds of Love" is the Wall of Sound type of recording, with a very complex structure and instrumentation tapestry.

A great system can allow you to hear each and every instrument clearly and in its own space, while it still weaves that "fullness".  

A lousy system will have it all congealed into a "splattered paint on the wall" sonic canvas, which sounds OK, but is less rewarding.

"Woman in Chains", is similar, but adds a female voice, her name escapes me at the moment, but she is very good.  The particular thing that was missing in that cut when I listened to it, was a "triangle" in the right soundstage.  In a system that "resolves it", you find that whoever was playing it, was "totally" off beat.  So much so that it is actually distracting.  Everytime I hear it I wonder if they forgot to wear their headphones during the session and couldn' hear the drummer or what.

It appears slightly into the begining of the song.

Then when I "didn't" hear it any more, I missed it.

Go ahead pull out "woman in chains" and give it a listen.  

I even have a couple "Wang Chung" ref cuts, if ya wanna be out there.    

[zybar]

John,

Sorry to disappoint, but no Tears for Fears, Wang Chung, Duran Duran, and other 80's band of that type in my collection.  At that time I listened to classic rock and heavy metal.    

These days I listen to a MUCH LARGER variety of music (but still no urge to go with Tears for Fears, etc...).  

George

[lonewolfny42]

John,

Sorry to disappoint, but no Tears for Fears, Wang Chung, Duran Duran, and other 80's band of that type in my collection.  

George

George, Give these two a spin, you'd be surprized :

XTC - "Upsy Daisy Assortment "[/list:u]
Squeeze - "Singles - 45's and Under"[/list:u]
Pretty good for 80's groups , and for checking out your system ! [/list:u]

[zybar]

Chris,

I do have many Squeeze albums (on both cd and lp) and do like them.  

I never really could get into XTC.

George

[zybar]

Some 80's music that I do use for reference (and general enjoyment) purposes:

Dire Straits - Makig Movies, Love or Gold, Brothers in Arms
Paul Simon - Graceland
Sting - The Dream of the Blue Turtles
John Hiatt - Bring the Family
Bruce Springsteen - Nebraska, The River
U2 - Joshua Tree

Just to name a few...

George

[DTB300]

I have posted this tweak before and also recently responded to a similar thread but I thought I should post some of my new findings (listenings) I think most of you have heard about the silver treatments available from WALKER and MAPLESHADE.

So which do you like better?  Walker or Mapleshade?   Or are they about the same when it comes to sonic improvements?  Which is easier to use or apply?

Being thinking about buying some of either but would be interested in your or any others preferences and experiences.

Later...Dan

[ScottMayo]

Some 80's music that I do use for reference (and general enjoyment) purposes:

Dire Straits - Makig Movies, Love or Gold, Brothers in Arms
Paul Simon - Graceland
Sting - The Dream of the Blue Turtles
John Hiatt - Bring the Family
Bruce Springsteen - Nebraska, The River
U2 - Joshua Tree

Just to name a few...

George

Dire Straights, sure. Paul Simon, I can see that. Sting, ok. Springsteen, if you say so (I've no use for anything that he does). Well recorded stuff.

But U2? I like Joshua Tree, but unless I got a bad copy, it's one of the worst recorded albums I know. I mean, they were never a precise band to begin with, but it's like the engineers just said, "aw, screw it, it's just rock - hang the mics anywhere, they'll fix it in remix" - and the remix engineers said, "Aw, screw it, U2 fans just want angsty lyrics, so as long as they can make out the words..."

I play U2 on the family boom box. I get way, way too much information on my real system, all of it nasty.

As far as Ancient Rock goes, "Dark Side of the Moon" is still a good test disc, even after 30 years. The Heartbeat, the Solo and the Chimes tell you a lot about the system...

[John Casler]

John,

Sorry to disappoint, but no Tears for Fears, Wang Chung, Duran Duran, and other 80's band of that type in my collection.  At that time I listened to classic rock and heavy metal.    

These days I listen to a MUCH LARGER variety of music (but still no urge to go with Tears for Fears, etc...).  

George

George,

Sorry to be so late on this, but I just pulled this CD today, and have to say, it is remarkable.

I get the idea that you "are" a Harry Connick and Frank Sinatra fan.

I picked up one of the newer Connick CDs the other day and returned it after one spin.  It was some of the least clear engineering I have ever heard.

So, I thought I might throw one out to you, that "IS" great of that type, if you like the "Frank Style" of crooning.

You may already have it, but it is by a guy called "Michael Buble", which is also the name of the album.

http://www.michaelbuble.com/home.php

This is one of the best produced and engineered CDs of its type.

You'll certainly be able to tell how "cleanly" your subs are playing.

If you have it, or get it, let me know if you like it.

[zybar]

Thanks John.

I am indeed a Sinatra and Connick fan.

I will check out that cd.

In fact, just placed on order via BMG for the following cd's:

Wynton Marsalis Quartet
The Magic Hour  D152304    
   
Big Head Todd & The Monsters
Crimes Of Passion  D151974    
   
Rush
Retrospective I (1974-1980)  D118700    
   
Rush
Retrospective II (1981-1987)  D118806    
   
Harry Connick, Jr.
30  D141906    
   
The Clash
London Calling (Remastered)  D133089    
   
Suzanne Vega
RetroSpective: The Best Of Suzanne Vega  D146916    
   
Frank Sinatra
Songs For Swingin' Lovers (Remastered)  D125699    
   
Frank Sinatra
Sinatra Reprise: The Very Good Years  D180304    
   
Glenn Miller
Platinum Glenn Miller  D246484    
   
John Coltrane
Lush Life (SACD Hybrid)  D152338    
   
Frank Sinatra
Portrait Of Sinatra: Columbia Classics  D221918

George

[zybar]

John,

Here is a review on allmusic.com:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=UIDMISS70311131919270869&sql=A2r62mp9k9f1o

Thanks again.

George

[John Casler]

I think this is the one I returned:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=UIDMISS70311131919270869&sql=A4m6tk6dxtkra



If you have it tell me what you think.  If you don't and get it, I'd say be prepared to take it back.

Slushy, Slushy, Foggy and Brash.

[zybar]

Don't have that one John...  

I still think his best disc was "She".

Promise you that it isn't Slushy, Slushy, Foggy and Brash.

In fact, it is well recorded and dynamic as all hell!  

George

[ctviggen]

Thanks for this discussion!  I've been looking to increase the breadth of my CD collection.  I do like Big Head Todd a bit too much.

[sbcgroup1]

You know what is a really well recorded '80s type rock album? Queensryche's Empire (1990). Geoff Tate's vocals are so nice.....

The Pink Floyd stuff is cool, but because everyone plays their stuff as rock reference tracks, I pick it apart too easily and listen way to critically....then I find problems with it....lol. It's too "analoguey" sounding for me. Listen carefully for the tape noise always present in the background. And as for the de-facto 70's standard, all the drums are muffled and tamed too much and the vocals have a slight veil on them. But when you record with analogue, tape automatically gives off a natural compression anyways.

One thing I do know is that Pete Cornish, who designed all Gilmour's effects, does his job very well:) He's an English version of our Bob Bradshaw.

-Ed