Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)

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tinsoldier

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Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« on: 22 Oct 2012, 04:33 pm »
I has been many years since I was into fidelity (20 yrs plus). Recently I sold some of my vintage equipments and started scrounging the internet for some high end equipments. I picked up a real nice BAT VK 60 amp  last week and a recently refurbished set of Apogee Caliper Signature. However I am unable to enjoy any of it because I am still in need of a preamp or DAC combo.

My question is should I go with a tube preamp or SS preamp. I am trying to keep it below 600-700. I have been eyeing the Eastern Electronic minimax DAC but they aren't really that many on the used market. Is there something comparable to such? In honesty I have no idea what I am looking for.

lonewolfny42

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Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #1 on: 23 Oct 2012, 05:32 am »
Welcome.... :thumb:

Looks like the beginning of a fine system... 8)

The BAT VK 60 is a nice amp....the times I've heard BAT equipment always sounded good with a tube preamp...and most of the time it was a BAT preamp.

Not sure if you'd be happy using a Eastern Electronic minimax DAC  as your preamp.

Let's see what others say......

morganc

Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #2 on: 23 Oct 2012, 06:38 am »
I has been many years since I was into fidelity (20 yrs plus). Recently I sold some of my vintage equipments and started scrounging the internet for some high end equipments. I picked up a real nice BAT VK 60 amp  last week and a recently refurbished set of Apogee Caliper Signature. However I am unable to enjoy any of it because I am still in need of a preamp or DAC combo.

My question is should I go with a tube preamp or SS preamp. I am trying to keep it below 600-700. I have been eyeing the Eastern Electronic minimax DAC but they aren't really that many on the used market. Is there something comparable to such? In honesty I have no idea what I am looking for.

There is a special on A Dodd Audio Pre-amp for $900 until Friday.    It is a killer battery powered Pre-amp.    You will Be hard pressed to find anything close to this performance for that price. 

wilsynet

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Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #3 on: 23 Oct 2012, 10:50 am »
This has an asking price of $600:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110818.0

And it's good.  Had one before.  Had the Dodd before too, but I didn't want to deal with batteries it turns out.  Personally, I prefer the Grounded Grid to the Dodd, although I could see it the other way around too.  For some systems, I imagine the Dodd would be better.

Having said that, I don't know if the Dodd with its zero gain would be appropriate for the system being considered.

What are you going to use for a source?  Quite a few decent DACs these days for less than $500.  Although I wouldn't use any of those in lieu of a preamp, even if they were advertised as being capable.

tinsoldier

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Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #4 on: 23 Oct 2012, 12:53 pm »
I forgot to add that the majority of music I will be listening to is Jazz...The room is 14X14.

Quiet Earth

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Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #5 on: 23 Oct 2012, 01:49 pm »

The BAT VK 60 is a nice amp....the times I've heard BAT equipment always sounded good with a tube preamp...and most of the time it was a BAT preamp.

That's what I was thinking.  :thumb:

tinsoldier,

Since you already have your amp and speaker chosen, that actually helps you weed out a couple of things that won't work. Here's what you already know about your amp/speaker combination:

Your amp has a medium sensitivity of 1 volt input and your speakers have a low sensitivity of 86dB/3 ohms. That means you will most likely get the best sound with a standard, active preamplifier. In other words, you will probably run out of gas using a passive pre, a tube buffer, or a DAC with a volume control. They just won't be able to drive the amp with enough gusto to make the speakers boogie. There may be exceptions, but the odds are not in your favor to avoid a normal preamp.

Your amp has balanced inputs, so whatever feeds it must have a balanced output. I would look at preamps that have balanced or XLR output connectors.

Since you are just getting back into it, you may want the option to hook other things up to the system in the near future. A preamp is a good way to provide this facility.

Ericus Rex

Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #6 on: 23 Oct 2012, 02:45 pm »
That's what I was thinking.  :thumb:

tinsoldier,

Since you already have your amp and speaker chosen, that actually helps you weed out a couple of things that won't work. Here's what you already know about your amp/speaker combination:

Your amp has a medium sensitivity of 1 volt input and your speakers have a low sensitivity of 86dB/3 ohms. That means you will most likely get the best sound with a standard, active preamplifier. In other words, you will probably run out of gas using a passive pre, a tube buffer, or a DAC with a volume control. They just won't be able to drive the amp with enough gusto to make the speakers boogie. There may be exceptions, but the odds are not in your favor to avoid a normal preamp.

Your amp has balanced inputs, so whatever feeds it must have a balanced output. I would look at preamps that have balanced or XLR output connectors.

Since you are just getting back into it, you may want the option to hook other things up to the system in the near future. A preamp is a good way to provide this facility.

Good info here.  I'm not sure you'll be able to find a balanced tubed pre for $600-700.  If you absolutely have to stick to that price point I'd say get a decent used non-balanced pre to get you by until you can afford to get a BAT pre.  There are lots of used SS pres for that price and a few tubed pres.  There are a number of good inexpensive budget DACs out there to get you by.  I'd be sure to audition one against your source as, in my experience, the differences between good dacs are more subtle than the hype would suggest.  I.E. you won't hear the same kind of difference in sound as you would with amps and preamps.

DaveC113

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Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #7 on: 23 Oct 2012, 03:00 pm »
Good info here.  I'm not sure you'll be able to find a balanced tubed pre for $600-700.  If you absolutely have to stick to that price point I'd say get a decent used non-balanced pre to get you by until you can afford to get a BAT pre.  There are lots of used SS pres for that price and a few tubed pres.  There are a number of good inexpensive budget DACs out there to get you by.  I'd be sure to audition one against your source as, in my experience, the differences between good dacs are more subtle than the hype would suggest.  I.E. you won't hear the same kind of difference in sound as you would with amps and preamps.

I agree. For your budget I'm not sure that amp was a good choice, because now you need a good active preamp, which isn't going to be cheap.... and a DAC. Also, for low sensitivity speakers you might prefer a powerful SS amp over a 60 wpc tube amp, but its hard to say... def, depends on the speakers xover and related impedences...

You might want to consider an integrated amplifier instead... the Peachtree integrated amps have tube input stages and decent DACs all in one box:

http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/products/amplifiers-dac.html

The Grand Integrated was at RMAF and sounded great driving huge $100k TAD speakers. At 470 WPC it won't be short on power either.




Quiet Earth

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Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #8 on: 23 Oct 2012, 03:26 pm »
Here is an example of a balanced preamp very close to your budget. It took me all of one minute to find it, so don't be too hard on me : http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAHP3

I think if you explore what's out there and maybe increase your budget a little, you can find a nice preamp for your amp. Don't get too sidetracked in the process  :green: , and have fun  :thumb: .

wilsynet

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Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #9 on: 23 Oct 2012, 03:39 pm »
You don't *have* to buy a balanced pre to go with a balanced amp.  It would best take advantage of the balanced inputs, but it isn't any worse than if you just didn't have a balanced amp to begin with.

Wilson

DaveC113

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Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #10 on: 23 Oct 2012, 03:41 pm »
Here is an example of a balanced preamp very close to your budget. It took me all of one minute to find it, so don't be too hard on me : http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAHP3

I think if you explore what's out there and maybe increase your budget a little, you can find a nice preamp for your amp. Don't get too sidetracked in the process  :green: , and have fun  :thumb: .

If the OP goes with the BAT amp, increasing the budget is necessary. IMO... if you are going to have separate components an active preamp is very important and one that won't sound worse than NOT having a preamp isn't going to be anywhere close to cheap. I'm not sure the budget is there even on the used market... That's why I'd sell the BAT amp and get a decent integrated with DAC from Peachtree, Wyred, ModWright, etc...

Quiet Earth

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Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #11 on: 23 Oct 2012, 05:13 pm »
You don't *have* to buy a balanced pre to go with a balanced amp.

That is correct, you don't have to. I only wanted to point out that the input of the amp has XLR jacks. I was trying to keep it simple and show that you can buy a preamp in the target price range.

If the OP goes with the BAT amp, increasing the budget is necessary. IMO... if you are going to have separate components an active preamp is very important and one that won't sound worse than NOT having a preamp isn't going to be anywhere close to cheap. I'm not sure the budget is there even on the used market...

You are preaching to the choir Dave.  :D. But asking someone to sell something they haven't even had a chance to enjoy yet seems counter productive to me. Especially since he just bought it and would like to hook it up and use it. The question is, what do I need to get my amp and speakers up and running? Get a preamp is my suggestion. Why make it more complicated than that? You have to start somewhere.

DaveC113

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Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #12 on: 23 Oct 2012, 05:39 pm »
You are preaching to the choir Dave.  :D. But asking someone to sell something they haven't even had a chance to enjoy yet seems counter productive to me. Especially since he just bought it and would like to hook it up and use it. The question is, what do I need to get my amp and speakers up and running? Get a preamp is my suggestion. Why make it more complicated than that? You have to start somewhere.

Yes... but I also think he got the wrong amp for 86 dB speakers anyway. I'd want more power, which is why I mentioned the Peachteree Grand Integrated with built-in DAC. It got a great review by 6 Moons. The BAT is a $5k amp, the Peachtree is about the same price, so I'd guess they will go for similar prices used as well.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/peachtree5/1.html

Assuming the op keeps the amp, I'd look into the DSPeaker DAC / Room Correction device, it has a preamp with volume control built in and can also do auto room correction. It is also over the OPs budget, but would be a good solution with the advantage of room correction eq.

http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/20-dual-core.shtml

brooklyn

Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #13 on: 23 Oct 2012, 06:14 pm »
Bel Canto makes some nice Pre/Dac combo's. They are more expensive then the money you have to spend but a used one would get you a lot closer. I own the BC REF 500m amps and they sound wonderful. While I'm not in any particular hurry, I'm in the market to upgrade my
PS Audio DAC lll to a Bel Canto Dac, I'm just waiting for the right deal to come along..

Advice: People on this forum give great advise, take your time and think everything through to minimize mistakes. Have fun and remember,
it's a hobby...

tinsoldier

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Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #14 on: 25 Oct 2012, 03:30 am »
Thank you for the replies..I forgot to add that my main intention is to play FLAC files through the media player. That was why I was looking for something with a USB input. I know I am asking a lot within that budget but I got the BAT VK60 amp at a very reasonable price that I couldn't pass up. The speakers, I can upgrade later but for now it is fine since I am starting out and with trial and error. I would eventually get the right equipments within the time and budget allowed.

squirrel_nut

Re: Help me set up my system. (preamp or DAC)
« Reply #15 on: 25 Oct 2012, 07:28 am »
a killer deal here: 

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/processors-ead-theatermaster-and-preamp-encore-ovation-signature-and-t-1000-cd-transport-both-black-2012-10-03-home-theater-52556-fairfield-ia

i use an EAD pre for 2ch only and it sounds fantastic!  the built in DAC still holds its own IMO with todays Sabre DACs.  the transport needs repaired, but it's an excellent unit and the foks @Noble are great to work with.
EAD used balanced IC for 2ch which i assume would match with the BAT.