Interesting single driver speaker company.

wisnon · « **on:** 21 Oct 2012, 09:34 pm »

Today at the Zurich High-End show, I heard a superb single driver speaker (4 inch metal driver/Ted Jordan) with a bamboo oval enclosure that ran almost full range 30hz to 22khz and 7 ohms. It practically blew me away as I was looking for the sub-woofer, as there was dynamics galore, even as it was driven by a 7wpc modded Traformatic 300b Set amp. This is the new Cartouche 30 model and there was absolutely NO ROOM treatment applied to the small hotel room!

The designer was from the UK Channel Islands and was a very nice guy (cost is about $9K). Joe Jouhal is his name and he is trained in fluid dynamics. He has 2 bigger speaker/more expo too and they have transmission line bass and replicate the advantages of the Cabasse sphere without the size, as they are flatter. Voxativ driver.

The website is www.josound.net

More show coverage here at 6moons:

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/suisse2012/1.html

rjbond3rd · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Oct 2012, 11:22 pm »

Beautiful, and the transmission lines are also stunning.

ejfud · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Oct 2012, 11:53 pm »

Beautiful they are.

I'm thinking the efficiency is a bit of a stretch though.

JLM · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Oct 2012, 10:55 am »

Those aluminum Jordan drivers have been around for several decades and while quite versatile are almost always promoted with exagerated specifications. Their design is based on the cone flexing (versus nearly everyone else who strive for pistonic action). I very seriously doubt they'd reach 30 Hz in open baffles. Actually I heard those drivers in similar open baffles (that looked like tomb stones) at the Midwest Audio Fest years ago built by someone from the Chicago Audio Mafia.

Regardless, 85 dB/w/m efficiency with maximum 50 watts means they'll barely reach 100 dB. Not bad drivers, but better are available for their raw price, especially for use in a $9,000 per pair speakers.

wisnon · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Oct 2012, 11:21 am »

It is NOT open Baffle, it is a dual port BASS reflex speaker. I am sorry I did not take a picture of the back. The sound is somehow channelled upwards and everyone was looking for a hidden subwoofer!

I took one look at first and thought there was no way and so tested it with my own music....Chris Jones, Roadhouses +No Sanctuary for bass (I heard the crickets!), then Carpenters -Interplanetary craft with the drum sets banging and -Only Yesterday, then Bob Marley - No woman, no cry, then Chie Ayado-Tennesse waltz, Himalaya- Norbu, Jose Carreras- Misa Criolla and even a bit of Yuri Honing trio- Walking on the Moon. They passed with flying colours. They had no right to sound so good. the cabinet work was superb, smooth as glass and utterly functional. All these speakers are hand made in Europe.

$9K aint chump change, but you can see the money in the cabinets...dead as the sea scrolls!

It is 85db efficient (works well with current ready amps, as it is a mild impedance (7.2ohms typical, 8ohms nominal)) . 50wpc SS amps or 7wpc tube amp with high current availability. I am looking at the brochure right now as we speak!

rjbond3rd · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Oct 2012, 01:32 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 22 Oct 2012, 10:55 am

Their design is based on the cone flexing (versus nearly everyone else who strive for pistonic action).

Hi JLM, relying on a mix of pistonic and non-pistonic (breakup) is something that pretty much all cone-type widebanders do, the trick being to balance the two actions and have a smooth transition between them. the JX92S manages this much, much better than most whizzered drivers. My pair measure well (MJK also documented his measurements).

I'm eager to hear the new model (E100HD) some time soon.

JLM · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Oct 2012, 02:24 pm »

Understand the pistonic concept. I unlike whizzers very much, so my single driver speakers are mass loaded transmission lines ala Martin King (Bob Brines FTA-2000) that use the "mighty" Fostex F200A driver (8 inch, huge AlNiCo magnet, no whizzer) that I had Bud Purvine himself EnABL.

My F200A reach 30 Hz raw (very rare for a wide bander), but have never heard of the JX92 reaching close to that in any cabinet, so I'm still struggling to believe it.

rjbond3rd · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Oct 2012, 04:44 pm »

I agree, it is weird to think of that small driver reaching into the 30's.

Yet it does so quite easily. Fs of 51Hz * .707 = 36Hz tuning (still conservative). And a robust xmax. What's fascinating about this particular driver (to me) is that it can go in sealed, small vented, larger vented, TL's, BLH's etc. It's remarkably flexible.

When I had it in a BiB, it had just frighteningly deep bass (I used them for 2-channel home theater). But whereas this driver does do deep bass, no doubt your 8" has the advantage on that bass feeling punchy, full, life-sized, even more robust, etc.

Off-topic but I'd love to hear those drivers of yours!

JoSound · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 09:00 am »

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the interest. As the designer, I like to understate performance rather than overstate it, the driver's efficiency is quoted as per the manufacturer's specifications, however in the Cartouche the measured efficiency is in the region of 88 db/W @ 1m @ 1KHz.

The drivers used in the Cartouche are not the EAD 100HD, out of preference, but the original Jordan JX 92S (original new old stock ... no more remain). Ted Jordan is a legend in the loudspeaker design community, having invented the aluminium coned driver back in '58 and has gone on to do great things IMHO.

I speak regularly with Ted and am glad to be able to let you know that the new replacement for the JX92S, that will be manufactured in the UK, is almost ready and suggest that is the one to wait for.

With respect to the Cartouche 30, I came up with a unique cabinet design, internally it is not just a box and can loosely be called a dual port bass reflex, that having modelled appeared to extend to 30 Hz. I really had no choice to build and measure as I was rather unconvinced but wanted to improve the accuracy of modelling. I was truly surprised that the measured performance did match the model.

The pair demonstrated at the High End Swiss, Zurich show were the first and only prototypes, production models are identical..

I am happy to answer any questions on the Jordan or Voxativ drivers that you may have directly at joe.jouhal@josound.net.

Kind Regards,

Joe Jouhal
Managing Director

Mobile: +44(0)7797 738882
E-mail: joe.jouhal@josound.net
Web: www.josound.net
Facebook: www.facebook.com/JoSound.Limited

rjbond3rd · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 06:06 pm »

Hi Joe, those are some truly spectacular cabinets! May I ask a couple questions?

1. Do you recommend any particular software for simulating such designs?

2. Have you considered offsetting the driver location, vs. mounting them dead-center? It might spoil the aesthetics but would (normally) minimize ripple from baffle diffraction.

Thank you in advance.

JoSound · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 07:59 pm »

Hi rjbond3rd,

I am very glad that you like the cabinets ... they are made from bamboo and take a lot of time to build ... wisnon was lucky enough to actually touch them ,,, they are very smooth ... we have had people simply stand and caress them for over 30 minutes at a time.

To answer your questions:

1. The software that I use has been written by myself and is constructed using C++ and unfortunately at this stage I have no plans to commercialise it as it does require considerable knowledge of fluid dynamics in-order to model and interpret results.

2. You are right, conventional wisdom points to offsetting the driver ... but my designs are not conventional and we have done extensive modelling and empirical measurement to confirm that our cabinet's very closely resembles the performance of a sphere. We did have to offset in vertical axis, but not in the horizontal axis, as was indicated by our modelling.

Best regards,

Joe

ejfud · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Oct 2012, 11:00 pm »

Thanks for sharing Joe. It would be a treat to hear your designs. I love the Jordan driver as you can see in my avatar. I also have a two way system with ribbon tweeter and Jordan. Both great. Have you had a chance to hear the new Jordan driver? I'm excited about them.

You seem to be pushing the speaker design process using your fluid dynamics background. Very cool.

If you know of any online reviews we could like to in the reviews stickie, please let me know.

planet10 · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 06:41 am »

Quote from: JoSound on 23 Oct 2012, 07:59 pm

... they are made from bamboo and take a lot of time to build ...

Hey Joe, nice to see you chime in. May i ask what kind of bamboo? We've made a few speakers with bamboo plywood, it is a fantastic material albeit somewhat harder to work with.

Quote

1. The software that I use has been written by myself and is constructed using C++ and unfortunately at this stage I have no plans to commercialise it as it does require considerable knowledge of fluid dynamics in-order to model and interpret results.

That sounds reminiscent of Ron Clarke's self-written software. Before he dissappeared from the diy scene he did some fantastic designs.

dave

JoSound · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 09:28 am »

Hi planet!0,

I know your site very well and you have some great designs there. Keep up the good work.

To me the home build community is one that I have a great deal of respect. After all I started to design my own because I simply could not find a commercial product that suited me. wisnon will attest that my musical taste is catholic, in the true sense of the word as opposed to its religious context. It was only when I my first finished attempt was auditioned, now commercialised as the JO 45, that my wife and I decided that it would be a great idea to sell the product, so 22 March 2011 I incorporated JoSound Limited and have gone on to develop a complete range of products ... and more to come in the near future

The species used by us is commonly called 'moso' (or its botanical name: Phyllostachys Pubescens) you can get the data sheet here: http://www.mosobamboosurfaces.co.uk/userfiles/File/pdf/20120918144828_SOLID_PANEL_DATASHEET.pdf

You are right it is tough to work with, but if you consider the ecological benefits of using bamboo over wood, IMHO it is worth paying the extra price. It is very important to select the correct lamination style and wall thickness, as, if done correctly, you can create a totally inert cabinet.

Maybe sometime in the future, when I have a spare year or so, I might get round to producing the software as a package ... but right know I am just too busy working on new designs

So to all you home builders ... keep persevering and who knows one day I might have the pleasure of walking into your room at a hi-fi show and shaking your hand.

Best regards,

Joe

JoSound · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 09:59 am »

Hi ejfud,

Glad you like

love your avatar

You are correct, we are using a lot of fluid dynamics as well as acoustical theory. Acoustical theory largely concerns it self with wave propagation in a static medium, air, but as we all know, one of the things that a driver does is cause movement in the medium that is carrying the wave so by combining these two we can more accurately model performance. I am still not 100% happy with the model, but we improve it each time with every new design.

The JO 45/1 using current JX92S (Fs=51 Hz), now improved with new more complex internal profile using original new old stock Jordan drivers (Fs= 45 Hz) and renamed to JO 45, were reviewed by David Price in the September 2011 edition of Hi-Fi World and our flagship JO 33, that uses the Voxativ full range drivers along with the JO 20 "Big Sub", which doubles as an equipment stand, were reviewed by CineNow.fr, a leading French webzine in June (http://www.cinenow.fr/articles/26527-josound-des-enceintes-atypiques-au-large-de-saint-malo-visite-et-ecoute). A t translation of this article, authorized by the reviewer and excerpts of the Hi-Fi World review can be found here: http://www.josound.net/Testimonials.html

Best regards,

Joe

wisnon · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 12:15 pm »

Hi Joe,

Great to meet you last Sunday and rest assured that I am working on what I promised and will have them in the mail soon enough.

I am glad you are here to lend creedence to what I heard. I fully understand if people are sceptical about my 2nd hand report, as I was almost dismissive when I saw the "puny" single driver and challenged Paul with some deep bass music material. When it handled the music with aplomb, I had to go looking for the hidden subwoofer. When none was found, I could see the cheeky smiles from you guys refelcting back at me.

Awesome achievement. This speaker has no right to be so commanding, especially with a 7WPC modded tube amp. I now regret not hearing the big sibling with the Voxativ driver...perhaps next year? Pretty please? LoL

If you guys seek dealers in the Geneva area, I can tell you that my dealer friend was impressed (he pointed me in your direction) and could perhaps be convinced to carry them. I have his contact details if you wish...

dB Cooper · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 01:08 pm »

Quote from: rjbond3rd on 22 Oct 2012, 01:32 pm

Hi JLM, relying on a mix of pistonic and non-pistonic (breakup) is something that pretty much all cone-type widebanders do, the trick being to balance the two actions and have a smooth transition between them.

I have never heard a single driver system I have been really enthusiastic about. They all sounded colored and lacking in dynamics to me. Maybe this is why. Curious to hear some Omegas sometime though.

wisnon · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 01:10 pm »

Quote from: ejfud on 23 Oct 2012, 11:00 pm

Thanks for sharing Joe. It would be a treat to hear your designs. I love the Jordan driver as you can see in my avatar. I also have a two way system with ribbon tweeter and Jordan. Both great. Have you had a chance to hear the new Jordan driver? I'm excited about them.

You seem to be pushing the speaker design process using your fluid dynamics background. Very cool.

If you know of any online reviews we could like to in the reviews stickie, please let me know.

LoL

I guess we have to brush up on our Fluid Mechanics/Dynamics!
Here is a starter: http://www.amazon.com/Fluid-Mechanics-Dover-Books-Physics/dp/0486683567/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_z

wisnon · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 01:28 pm »

Quote from: dB Cooper on 24 Oct 2012, 01:08 pm

I have never heard a single driver system I have been really enthusiastic about. They all sounded colored and lacking in dynamics to me. Maybe this is why. Curious to hear some Omegas sometime though.

This is why I pulled for some energetic music I had on me to put them thru their paces.

Chris Jones: No Sanctuary here --- Passed the bass test.
Chris Jones : Roadhouses & Autos --- Passed the "cricket" test.

All of You - Modern Jazz Quartet (Album: Modern Moods- Prestige Moodsville (Vol 2)) is a monophically moving coiled miked xylophone recording with some saturation. It causes me physical pain when played in the car. TOO much HF. Reflections like crazy. Ask Joe how well his speaker coped, even with NO ROOM TREATMENT and sub-optimal setup to accomodate a wider than noraml seating arrangement for the show guests.

Carpenters - Calling Occupants of Interplanetary craft (World Contact Day) - Passed the drum dynamics test.
Bob Marley - No woman no cry -Passed the Reggae test (bass imaging)
Himalaya - Norbu -----Had all the airiness this pseudo accapella soundtrack presents- passed.
Carreras - Misa Criolla ---- Passed the atmosphere/depth of the venue test
Chie Ayado -Tennessee waltz-----Presence galore and unexpected dynamics. We had to lower the volume to allow conversation. All the emotional involmement was there.

Jo also played some uncompressed vocals and we even played 30 secs of the Yuri Honing Trio-Walking on the Moon and the drums sounded convincing.

What I wish I had on hand with me was a version of Mussorsky's Bare Mountain that has OVERWHELMING (disturb your neighbour type) bass and would be the ultimate test. I will hae to ask Joe to do that for me.

All in all, this is a very capable speaker across a wide spectrum of musical genres.

I leave it to Joe to elaborate on his impressions of some of the cuts I had played above. He may not have been there for 1 or 2 as we started when he was still on a break.

I heard its game...now I'm a believer...

Jolly · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Oct 2012, 03:55 pm »

I have a very nice pair of Carolina Audio JTM/2's for sale at a very good price with local NYC area pickup if anyone is interested.