[DaveC113]

I find it close to impossible to really gauge a system listening to music that I am not completely familiar with.

This is the problem, and I think mfg'ers that do not play attendee's test tracks are trying to hide weaknesses in their systems.

[Tyson]

One thing that helps is to use only one track and make it not that long.  For example, we got a lot of traction by mentioning we only had 1 track 7 minutes long and that's it.  That way, even if it's horrible music, it's over quickly

[jarcher]

I'd also add vendor's attitude towards their potential customers and reviewers is very important. I have been to 4 RMAFs now, but have not been to the last 2. RMAF 2012 was much different from the last one I was at WRT vendors playing customers/reviewer's test tracks. In '09 I think every room I visited would play my test tracks, and 99% had a very good attitude about it and were happy to show off their products to people who seemed interested. This year I got a fairly decent amount of vendors who looked at me like I had leprosy when I said I had a test cd / mem stick. Some refused to play them and came up with excuses why they couldn't.... even a couple of rooms with music servers!! In fact, I was told by Mojo to come back later when my friend and I were the ONLY ONES in the room. Lots of other rooms only had vinyl setups, I'm sure some people brought vinyl they were familiar with but I don't use vinyl. Then there were folks like Wisdom, who were rude and condescending about it.

Anyway... I was surprised and disappointed that things were going in that direction, but it made those folks with a positive attitude really stand out.

Interesting - at the Capital Area Audiofest most if not all rooms would play your cd.  Just one vendor seemed less than happy - even more funny, would actually hide in the other side of the suite because he didn't like the music!  But he would put on your cd anyway.  On the other hand, another vendor even took note of a cd I had to buy for him self. I do try not to abuse and don't ask to play stuff I know is recorded badly or more than 1-2 tracks of a few minutes.

When you've invested all this money, time & hassle doing the show, then are trying to sell super high-cost, low volume, equipment, you'd think you'd want to do anything within reason to capture each and every potential buyer. And letting the potential customer actually listen to their favorite track(s) seems like a no-brainer!

Of course, unless you know your gear only sounds good w/ certain tracks, within a certain frequency range, etc, etc.  Can understand folks wanting to accentuate the gear's virtues, but I do find vendors e.g. hawking 300B tube amps, etc, who just want to put almost pure vocal tracks, to be somewhat disingenuous. 

[DaveC113]

Interesting - at the Capital Area Audiofest most if not all rooms would play your cd.  Just one vendor seemed less than happy - even more funny, would actually hide in the other side of the suite because he didn't like the music!  But he would put on your cd anyway.  On the other hand, another vendor even took note of a cd I had to buy for him self. I do try not to abuse and don't ask to play stuff I know is recorded badly or more than 1-2 tracks of a few minutes.

When you've invested all this money, time & hassle doing the show, then are trying to sell super high-cost, low volume, equipment, you'd think you'd want to do anything within reason to capture each and every potential buyer. And letting the potential customer actually listen to their favorite track(s) seems like a no-brainer!

Of course, unless you know your gear only sounds good w/ certain tracks, within a certain frequency range, etc, etc.  Can understand folks wanting to accentuate the gear's virtues, but I do find vendors e.g. hawking 300B tube amps, etc, who just want to put almost pure vocal tracks, to be somewhat disingenuous.

Yup, I ask for about 5-7 minutes of time. It's not that much, and about 80% of the time the vendor or another attendee asks me about a track so they can purchase that CD. It's not like I'm asking for an hour of time playing poorly recorded or hugely unpopular music. And I definitely feel like SOME vendors are making sure only complementary material is being played, if it is a vinyl only system it's pretty easy to tell if they brought a real variety of music or a very limited collection that sounds good on their system. In the case of Zellation I asked for some jazz with horns and got another super simple bare bones jazz LP being played at 90 dB peaks even when I asked for the volume to be turned up. Not everyone wants to listen to elevator music under 90 dB all the time... 

[Don_S]

I hate +1 but what can I say?  +1

IMO, the biggest mistake a vendor can make is to force their music on the audience. Especially if the vendors music is some boring middle-key piano piece or certain bland female artists who shall remain nameless so I don't start a war.   

I specifically pick out tracks that get me to where I need to be in less than one minute each.  30 seconds is better. Then I quickly move to another track. I burn one high quality disk so there is no swapping.  I have received numerous compliments on my music selection.  More than one vendor has asked permission to copy my disk or ask me about a track. Sometimes other attendees have been disappointed when I moved to the next track and encouraged me to let a specific track play completely. I am always concientious to not hog the system and that is why I move quickly from one track to another. One attendee commented he was impressed on how quickly I got what I needed. Speed dating at its finest.

I also burn a second disk of "runners up" for after hours listening and a back up if something happens to disk #1.

I find it close to impossible to really gauge a system listening to music that I am not completely familiar with.

[jarcher]

I hate +1 but what can I say?  +1

IMO, the biggest mistake a vendor can make is to force their music on the audience. Especially if the vendors music is some boring middle-key piano piece or certain bland female artists who shall remain nameless so I don't start a war.   

++1!!

At the '11 CAAF I was really pumped to hear a flagship wilson speaker + d'agostino's new flagship amp.  But the guy running the music kept playing his favorite german leonard cohen goth thing over & over on each visit.  Finally I gave up.  At other rooms attendees would be relieved when the person running the music would actually ask for suggestions or played something different / better.

But guess the 'ol "good gear / bad music" is an old saw about audio shows......

Music is very subjective, but as purportedly the gear is supposed to be all about the music, more thought / planning should be put into that aspect of the vendor's presentation.

[woofersus]

Ok, I'll share our "oops" story from this show.  I already mentioned it in the CIaudio circle but it bears repeating becuase "pro's" or not, it's important to understand just how many variables there are and how many ways things can go wrong when you take an entire setup portable and try to put your best foot forward in a hotel room for 3 days.  We (Angel City Audio/Melody/MG Audio Design/Hollis Audio Labs) were lent a new Channel Islands Transient II USB Converter to use in our digital playback system along with a HAL MS-1 music server. (first time!)   A couple of hours into the show we switched over to the digital system and it didn't sound very good at all.  We quickly abandoned it and returned to the cd player.  Later, I double checked all the connections and found that the external power supply wasn't completely connected to the converter so it was actually getting power via usb.  A 15ft usb cable connected to a music server built on a mini ITX platform plugged into hotel AC during an audio show.  (the circuit was so overloaded the music playback would stutter when the air conditioning kicked on)  Needless to say when receiving power from the external power supply two inches away and plugged into our power conditioner things improved dramatically.  Unfortunately some people heard it in it's original state, including I think, a few press members.  These sorts of things happen at shows all the time, because these aren't dedicated showrooms, they're temporary.  That's a lot of gear to organize, load, transport, unload, set up, tweak, tear down, load, and unload again in the span of 5 days or so.

We've certainly dealt with the same things that were mentioned above.  There are a gazillion things that can go wrong.  Ultimately mistakes are on us, but there ARE things that happen that are sometimes out of our control.  We learn every time and I think we're better at it than we used to be, but it's still a tricky endeavor.  You'll notice the vendors that tend to have a good sounding room consistently are those who have been at it a while and have a setup that changes very little over time.  Yet still, somebody as established as GR Research, who has invested in the big trailer, has the same room partners every year and most of the same equipment, and goes to great lengths to deal with room acoustics (temporary wall anyone?) still had issues on day one that led to a mixed review from Pez and Tyson.  They got it fixed and it was sounding great later on, but still, this is a great example of how you can do everything right and still not end up showing everybody your very best.

[paul canady]

Deleted!

[Scottdazzle]

IMO, the biggest mistake a vendor can make is to force their music on the audience. Especially if the vendors music is some boring middle-key piano piece or certain bland female artists who shall remain nameless so I don't start a war.   

So true.  I couldn't figure out what the Carver speakers sounded like because the demonstrator was playing some hifi spectacular music (maybe Dead Can Dance) that I never listen to.  I asked for maybe some vocals and he played something like Josh Groban with an orchestra - again, something I would never listen to.  Finally I asked for something small scale (thinking maybe folk, jazz, or chamber music).  He played something else equally glossy and hifi but not resembling anything like music made by a small group of musicians.  The common thread was that each of those selections seems to be the kind of glossy, highly produced muzak that's made to show off hifi gear.  There was no common ground between what he wanted to play and what I wanted to hear.  Next year I bring my own music.

[Don_S]

As an addendum to my previous post I want to remind everyone that with great power comes great responsibility.   

Always thank a vendor before and after they play your music.  Choose wisely. That would probably exclude death metal. Don't expect to listen to an entire track. If you do, make that your only track. 3.5 minutes can seem like a very long time to others in the room who don't like that music and/or want their own turn. 

I have had to suffer through some long classical pieces when someone parked in the sweet spot like they were at home enjoying a glass of wine with time to kill.

Obviously the above comments are referring to a room with high traffic.  Occasionally I find myself lucky to be alone or almost alone in a room and then I feel more relaxed and comfortable listening to more selections or longer pieces. It all boils down to being considerate to the vendor and other attendees. Kiddie Garden rules apply here.

[HAL]

Scott,
I had to ask about 3-4 time in the Carver room about a classical piece to hear real instruments.  They put on what sounded like a movie soundtrack.  I really wanted to hear what the line array and tube amps could do.

They did ask if I had music, but my hard drive was in the ACA room.  Next year I will bring a thumb drive formatted as FAT32 so it will play on PC's and MAC's to solve the issue.

[dminches]

At last year's RMAF we brought our sample CD with a track from Alison Krauss - So Long So Wrong into the Daedalus room.  It sounded amazing on the speakers. Really, jaw dropping. The guy managing the room ask us if he could keep it to us it as his demo.

[standub]

That would probably exclude death metal.

But how can I test bass performance without this though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9LZ4zqccl4

[standub]

I noticed last year a trend toward vinyl and non CD digital sources.  I'm not sure that it is a lets control what they can listen too as much as it is CDs are dying and hard drive stored media is the future.  And vinyl never went away in the high end and is actually coming back.  On the other hand I did notice less vendors letting you play your music or asking if any one had music to play.  This is stupid beyond belief who in the world is going to buy speakers without demoing them with their own music, let alone the fact it's a whole different system then what they own in a hotel room.

[jtwrace]

I'd like to know how many vendors take the 10 minutes to take some room measurements.  It's pretty quick once you've done it before and if anyone is building speakers they better know how to use it. 

This would aid in room setup and at bare minimum give you an idea of what you have and what you need.  If not for the current year but certainly the next year. 

[Vapor Audio]

So true.  I couldn't figure out what the Carver speakers sounded like because the demonstrator was playing some hifi spectacular music (maybe Dead Can Dance) that I never listen to.  I asked for maybe some vocals and he played something like Josh Groban with an orchestra - again, something I would never listen to.  Finally I asked for something small scale (thinking maybe folk, jazz, or chamber music).  He played something else equally glossy and hifi but not resembling anything like music made by a small group of musicians.  The common thread was that each of those selections seems to be the kind of glossy, highly produced muzak that's made to show off hifi gear.  There was no common ground between what he wanted to play and what I wanted to hear.  Next year I bring my own music.

I think I managed to get just what you were looking for didn't I? 

We made sure to have cd players in both rooms, because you're all right ... the only way to truly judge is with your own music.  There were a few requests that chased some people out of the room, can't make everybody happy 

[Vapor Audio]

But how can I test bass performance without this though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9LZ4zqccl4

I'd rock that in my room!

There is one true thing I've found at shows, put on some Tool and the room gets full.

[jarcher]

I have a favorite well recorded thrash metal album I use all the time as a bass / speed demo - but sadly just at home.  Wouldn't even try to pull that off at a show.

[brj]

If you're soliciting feedback, I'll offer a few more suggestions (pulled from various experiences across multiple rooms):

1) If you're going to show multiple speakers, components or systems, which I'd encourage within reason, post a schedule showing when each will be playing.  (I stopped by 3 times hoping to audition the Arcus and still didn't hear it.)
2) If the designer of a component or speaker is staffing a room, make sure that at least one other support person is on hand to run the system so that the designer can step away to answer questions.
3) Step into the hall to answer questions.  Even conversations started in whispers out of courtesy eventually seem to grow loud enough to distract others in the room.
4) You can't control everyone stopping by or their predilections to interrupt, but try to finish one conversation before starting another.

I realize that these aren't practical all of the time, so feel free to consider them merely food for thought...

[Don_S]

The best rooms always have chocolate.