[Elizabeth]

It is not that simple.  The Forte 4A is no doubt a excellent amp.  One needs to compare "apples to apples" For example, a more meaningful comparison would be comparing a current Bryston offering to a Pass Labs X 150.5, and a XA 30.5.   One needs to consider "all the factors" (parts, design, etc) from roughly the same time period.  Now, you still may prefer the Bryston, but it would be a more accurate comparison. 
 
Again, the transfer function between Class A and AB is not theory, it is engineering, and it factual.  They are different.

I would accept the 'apples to apples' stuff as long as the price was comparable. No way can you compar a $15,000 Pass to a $5,000 Bryston. Which is what you would be doing.
The Forte 4a was a twenty year old design, which as retail about $1,800 twenty years ago. So that I felt was somewhat a reasonable comparo to the then $4,200  4B-SST2 I was planning on. Still the Bryston was scalewise 'better' IE more money.. But it was what i was interested in.
The Parasound pair of John Curl design were twice the price (not class A, but what i considered), and the Pass were triple the price. (no one would suggest a small PAss for Magnepans.. If so I could have  kept the Forte 4a for my Magnepan 3.6)  And triple the electrical usage and heat. (since my Forte used $10 a month all by itself, I did not need an amp taking $40 worth of electricity a month PLUS more to cool the apt in Summer.!!!!
My Bryston averages a little less 'total' (estimating seat of the pants)  heat output that my Forte did, though it is three times larger and heavier and six times the power output possible.

My bad. the new PASS 30.5 is almost exactly the same price as a bryston 4B-SST2 five grand.
So you would be comparing a 30 watt class A amp, to a 300 watt Bryston..
 (and my Bryston is putting out 5% biased class A so about 15 watts pure class A before switching to AB.. Hmm It would be an interesting comparison. They both would probably use the same amount of power too.. (except the Pass would be using what the Bryston using in heavy usage even at idle... I leave my Bryston on 24/7)
Also consider the Bryston 28B-SST2 is biased 5% to class A, so the 28B-SST2 is putting out  more in class A than a Pass 60.5
Why not toss in the mix a single ended triode while at it!!

[G Georgopoulos]

Class ab b are good amplifiers too,class a are only good in distortion measurements,class ab b amplifiers have bigger damping factors,more power output vs power consumption,the fact that more amplifier manufacturers make class ab b amplifiers is something that should be noted.

Seems to me that this discussion is like subjectism vs objectivism...

cheers

[spinner]

+1

[whatsthisone]

Hi CJ

You may be correct about it all being about the business of making money for others but certainly not at Bryston. I am in this business because of my passion for reproducing quality music and the products that make that goal possible.

I disagree that distortion numbers of 5% sounds better .... SE or otherwise.

Obvious you have to make enough money to allow the business to survive but you remember the old saying in high end audio that goes  - " know how to make a small fortune in high end audio ?? - start with a large one"   

For me it's about spending my life providing quality products designed to hopefully provide quality music/sound to as many as possible. Any technology that allows me to come closer to the ideal of "straight wire with gain" is the direction I will take. 

James

 

Thanks James.  This is why I have 3 complete Bryston systems running in my home (office, Livingroom, and basement).  I do also own quite a bit of other products from other manufacturers, but the Brystons always stay in the mix .  I am currently looking for a specific 50 watt class a mono amp set, even if it wastes a bunch of electricity, and will have to be sent in for a complete rebuild when I find them.  At this point in my life I just do not care   Also, it is very nice that whenever I call or email Bryston with questions I get very fast answers, and quite detailed when I ask very detailed questions.  The service is tops.

[G Georgopoulos]

50 watts is not enough to rival ab/b amplifiers of 100 watts or over ,also the damping factor of a class a would be much less than the class b/ab amplifiers,as for the distortion figures the class ab/b would have figures that would be unnoticeable to the ear.

[whatsthisone]

50 watts is not enough to rival ab/b amplifiers of 100 watts or over ,also the damping factor of a class a would be much less than the class b/ab amplifiers,as for the distortion figures the class ab/b would have figures that would be unnoticeable to the ear.

Who really cares!  I have a pair of 7bsst's, 2 4bsst, a 2BLP (2002 model where output matters) and many other amps already.  Sounds like the jokers when we talk motorcycles.  I ride a KLR 650 all over the place, recently into the Yukon on some pretty rough roads.  Try that on the Harley, Goldwing, etc.  Bigger is not always better in every situation.  I suppose we could get into who's Law Degree is better, or whatever floats your boat   Silly!

[lanchile]

Hi CJ

You may be correct about it all being about the business of making money for others but certainly not at Bryston. I am in this business because of my passion for reproducing quality music and the products that make that goal possible.

I disagree that distortion numbers of 5% sounds better .... SE or otherwise.

Obvious you have to make enough money to allow the business to survive but you remember the old saying in high end audio that goes  - " know how to make a small fortune in high end audio ?? - start with a large one"   

For me it's about spending my life providing quality products designed to hopefully provide quality music/sound to as many as possible. Any technology that allows me to come closer to the ideal of "straight wire with gain" is the direction I will take. 

James

Since you said it! I have try many integrated amps and a few "passive" amps like: Portal Panache, Acurus DIA100 and Adcom 510 and I found the sound very reveal and clean. I had the B60 too and I liked it, but I was wondering are you shooting for a "passive integrated amp" ? I know this is not so easy since you have to deal with cable inductance, input sensitivity etc. I build a passive integrated amps using high quality parts and I can tell you it sounds really good the only thing between the input to the amp is a Sonicap 4,7uf input cap (block dc) and a TKD potentiometer!!! I bet you if Bryston builds a passive integrated amplifier...it will be a killer!

[whatsthisone]

G Georgopoulos, I must apologize and hope I did not come off a bit testy, must have been a bad day.  My original point was just praising James for being in the business for his passion and making good products and "hopefully provide quality music/sound to as many as possible."  Also, that I understand that a business can not keep their doors open and provide the products to the public without making a reasonable profit.

Sometimes, I just get a little testy when the discussion comes down to what appears to me as bashing everything else, which including Bryston.  I am in fact a total Bryston fan, but I also know there is a lot of good gear out there, and it all has a place for someone, at sometime in their lifetime.  The reason I really enjoy this hobby is the fact that I can discover a product people rave about (new or old), hopefully find it, use it, and make my own decision if I like it or not.  I have been through a lot of gear, and so far, I have not found much (after reading others praise it) that I think someone, based upon their budget and needs, would not find satisfying.

That being said, the only products that really do not leave my house is Bryston products.  Therefore, I have come to the conclusion, when it comes to Bryston, I can rest assure, that when I purchase it, I will be pleased.  Although no other product seems to spend much time in my house, I would very seldom tell anyone they are not pleasing.  It is just not what I prefer at this point in my life.  For instance, over the years I have come to the conclusion that I do not care for ported speakers.  Do I still drag them home?  Yes, in hopes that one day I might find one that I enjoy.

As far as the pair of 50 watt mono's on my "on the would buy if they are available, locally, in good condition, at a reasonable price" list, I feel very confident that they will also be pleasing in their own right.  Whether or not they remain in the house along side the Bryston's for a long time, that is yet to be determined.  My guess is, if they do not remain, it will not be because they are no good, just not my cup of tea.

I will try to be less confrontational and condescending in the future.  My apologies to anyone I may have offended.