[OUGrad05]

Here are my thoughts from RMAF

RMAF is the real deal, this was my first time to attend and I went with a good friend of mine who’s also into home audio but he’s an engineer and better versed on some of the detailed technical aspects of audio.  We listened to dozens of speakers and subs.  I’ll mention a few that I’ve seen thrown around on here and some others just to provide information.
Some common and affordable brands we listened to:
DYNAUDIO
PSB
SALK
FOCAL
ZU
B&W
TOTEM
KEF
APERION
SANDERS
MAGNEPAN
VIENNA ACCOUSTICS
SVS

Others:
Vandersteen
Von Schweikert
Dali
And many others…
The brief rundown goes like this ZU was the biggest disappointment.  Granted I had read mixed things on various forums about them and wasn’t expecting a whole lot but did expect them to have better source material.  They only had a turntable, they only had tube amps, which isn’t necessarily bad but they were playing recordings with subpar quality, some intended distortion, which after hearing them I’m convinced it’s because some of the more complex sounds they’d struggle with.  We did hear some Robert Plant but it sounded like we were listening through a megaphone.  It was almost painful at times.  Five of us were in the room, we all came out just saying, that was not good at all.

Focal, Totem, KEF, Dynaudio, Vienna Acoustics, SVS and Aperion all performed well.  I was a bit disappointed in the Focal and KEF R900’s.  The lacked some of the clarity and came across as a bit bright in comparison with some of the others at a similar price point.  Having said that, all of the above were competent performers.  Dynaudio had a wireless setup that was quite good for being wireless, the XEO line.  It would be a great option for those looking to have an indoor/outdoor option with easy portability.

B&W CM5 (bookshelves) really surprised me.  It wasn’t superb, but after hearing the entire 600 lineup and being thoroughly underwhelmed I was surprised at just how good this little monitor did even at moderate volumes.  This one surprised me.

Magnepan and Sanders both sounded very good.  Sanders I believe is about twice the price of the Magnepan but both performed very well.

For "affordable" speakers Salk and PSB were the class of the show in my opinion.  PSB had the Imagine T2’s and the Synchrony 1’s on display.  Man both sounded absolutely fantastic.  Overall the sound was on par with most of the 10k+ stuff we listened to.  The Synchrony 1’s sounded better than the T2’s but not by a wide margin.  Both were superbly detailed and natural and we even went back to sample them again for an extended period.  They cranked the volume up well beyond levels I’d normally listen to and the T2’s performed fantastic.  Maintaining clarity and separation with no harshness in instruments or voices was something other speakers cost 2 or 3x as much had trouble doing.  These PSB’s did it with apparent ease and seemed to have even more to offer.  Additionally the bass in the T2 was respectable, which was surprising giving it’s meager 5 inch driver configuration.  Needless to say the PSB’s left us stunned.  We both sat down, and within a short period we looked at each other thinking “wow, this is impressive”. 

After our initial visit to PSB we hit the SALK setup.  All I can say is WOW, WOW and did I say WOW?  The clarity provided by the ribbon tweeter was amazing.  We sampled a couple models but most of my focus was on the “Supercharged” Song Tower.  This tower had the ribbon tweeter and the 5 inch version of the HT2’s 7 inch driver (I forget the driver’s specific model number).  These speakers sounded absolutely stunning.  At an as tested price of 3,500 we were blown away.  Absolutely blown away.  They imaged well, the clarity and natural sound of vocals and instruments immediately left an impression.  At that point in time we couldn’t determine if we liked the SALK or PSB offerings better but we were fairly sure the SALK’s were better, at least to our ears.  The next day we hit them both again and it became clear that the SALK offerings were indeed better than the PSB offerings.  The sound was just more natural and detailed while having no harshness that we could detect. 

Obviously everyone’s ears are different but when it comes to affordable loudspeakers SALK is now at the top of my list.  Additionally, PSB’s new offerings are simply unmatched in the dealer oriented mainstream market.  I’ve not heard anything in the sub 6k range that can touch what we heard from those PSB’s.  If you’re not afraid of internet direct, you’ve gotta give SALK a try.  Just fantastic overall offerings.

The Salk SS8’s and the Dali’s that were on display were among the best speakers at the show regardless of price.  Yes some sounded better but they all cost significantly more than either of those two offerings.  I believe they were both around $8,000 and both brought a LOT to the table.

[avahifi]

Its kind of interesting to hear time after time how great the Salk speakers sounded at RMAF when there were running evidently all by themselves, mystically not needing any electronics to drive them.

I would like to point out that all the Salk speakers were in fact being driven by various Audio by Van Alstine electronics.  The S8s by our best Fet Valve hybrid amp, preamp, and DAC, the smaller speakers by our T8+ tube preamp and either our Ultravalve tube amp, Synergy solid state amp, and sometimes by our Synergy control amplifier.

Although jtwace would disagree, I would suggest that the speakers would not have sounded as impressive with lesser electronics.  It does make us wonder what was the point of showing up at the show.  We had no big signs posted saying "ignore us".

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[jtwrace]

Its kind of interesting to hear time after time how great the Salk speakers sounded at RMAF when there were running evidently all by themselves, mystically not needing any electronics to drive them.

It does make us wonder what was the point of showing up at the show.  We had no big signs posted saying "ignore us".

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

What do you mean exactly?

[pstrisik]

Its kind of interesting to hear time after time how great the Salk speakers sounded at RMAF when there were running evidently all by themselves, mystically not needing any electronics to drive them.

I would like to point out that all the Salk speakers were in fact being driven by various Audio by Van Alstine electronics.  The S8s by our best Fet Valve hybrid amp, preamp, and DAC, the smaller speakers by our T8+ tube preamp and either our Ultravalve tube amp, Synergy solid state amp, and sometimes by our Synergy control amplifier.

Although jtwace would disagree, I would suggest that the speakers would not have sounded as impressive with lesser electronics.  It does make us wonder what was the point of showing up at the show.  We had no big signs posted saying "ignore us".

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Frank,

What is your opinion, after this show, of the best AVA power amp match with SS8's?  Has it changed from when you said the SS8's were voiced slightly lean and that the Synergy's matched with them better than the FET Valves?  I'm still working on taming mine for my hearing.

Thanks.........Peter

What do you mean exactly?

Reads crystal clear to me.  AVA electronics deserve some of the credit for the sound quality.  Frank feels a bit (fill in the blank here) that this is not getting recognized.   However, this is a Salk thread and likely the primary reason for the emphasis on the speakers.

[jtwrace]

Reads crystal clear to me.  AVA electronics deserve some of the credit for the sound quality.  Frank feels a bit (fill in the blank here) that this is not getting recognized.

Oh I see. 

[avahifi]

From my own experience, I think the big Synergy 450 amp is a better match for the S8s than the Fet Valve amps.  I don't know if this was tried at the recent RMAF (I was home recovering from recent knee replacement) so I may be wrong about this.  Room acoustics at show conditions can swamp all other judgements. The all solid state Synergy 450 is actually a bit more tube like in its overall presentation than the hybrid tube Fet Valve amps.  Try and figure that out. 

Note that we do offer a 30 day satisfaction guarantee on all new AVA electronics so you certainly won't risk much to try either a Synergy 450 or Fet Valve 400R with your own S8s.

I do know that the Fet Valve amps work great with S12s.  We sold the FV600R off the show floor here last year to a client Jim sold the show S12s to.  He wanted to make sure he had an amp that would give him exactly the performance he heard at the show.  He seems to be pretty satisfied as he has since ordered a second FV600R and recently a Synergy three channel amp, Fet Valve preamp, and Fet Valve DAC too.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[yetis]

Seems an odd comment.   I think there is a case to be made, that mixing things up, is good for everyone.  I believe it would be beneficial for everyone, not too rely on one speaker or electronics manufacturer, to demo a product.   It would certainly silence critics.  Also, I don't think that suggesting a change in electronics would help, is a slight.  Rather, its just that people are familiar with what they know.   I know nothing about AVA electronics, however I do know a few things about other amp manufacturers.  I have owned Naim, Classe, Pass and Modwright amps, to name a few.  Now I am dealing with technical issues around my Ncore's.   If I had the space, I would chuck my Ncore's in the garbage, and move back to Pass or even Modwright.  The point being is that I would love to know what Salk sounds like with some of these electronics or something similar, yet its not too be.   I would also add, that from a sales perspective, sometimes charging more, is the best way to drive sales. In a similar light, surrounding yourself with big name electronics (or speakers.. it works both ways), can attract a larger audience. Now the manufacturer might not want that, but it's a thought. 

[tonyptony]

Frank, the SS8 was being driven by the 600R. I heard them on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday and have to agree that the whole thing sounded better after the speaker position was adjusted. While I haven't heard the SS8's with the Synergy amp, I have to say the 600R in conjunction with the other AVA gear didn't do too badly at all.

Glad your recovery was coming along per what your team was saying, but also sorry I wasn't able to finally meet you in person.

[tonyptony]

Seems an odd comment.   I think there is a case to be made, that mixing things up, is good for everyone.  I believe it would be beneficial for everyone, not too rely on one speaker or electronics manufacturer, to demo a product.   It would certainly silence critics.  Also, I don't think that suggesting a change in electronics would help, is a slight.  Rather, its just that people are familiar with what they know.   I know nothing about AVA electronics, however I do know a few things about other amp manufacturers.  I have owned Naim, Classe, Pass and Modwright amps, to name a few.  Now I am dealing with technical issues around my Ncore's.   If I had the space, I would chuck my Ncore's in the garbage, and move back to Pass or even Modwright.  The point being is that I would love to know what Salk sounds like with some of these electronics or something similar, yet its not too be.   I would also add, that from a sales perspective, sometimes charging more, is the best way to drive sales. In a similar light, surrounding yourself with big name electronics (or speakers.. it works both ways), can attract a larger audience. Now the manufacturer might not want that, but it's a thought.

yetis, I've heard various Salk speakers with various amps, and IMO the pairing of Salk and AVA has produced to my ears a tremendous and satisfying musical presentation. Having said that, I've heard the HT3s with a McCormack DNA500 and that was also quite quite good. I've not been as impressed with bigger Salk speakers driven by the different Class D amps in the cases I've heard.

[DMurphy]

yetis, I've heard various Salk speakers with various amps, and IMO the pairing of Salk and AVA has produced to my ears a tremendous and satisfying musical presentation. Having said that, I've heard the HT3s with a McCormack DNA500 and that was also quite quite good. I've not been as impressed with bigger Salk speakers driven by the different Class D amps in the cases I've heard.

I used AVA electronics two years running to drive my Philharmonic Audio speakers at the Capital Audio Fest.  I had the largest room available--it was a fairly huge conference room with heavy curtains, acoustic ceiling tiles, and thick carpeting.  My speakers are on the low side sensitivity-wise, and people insisted on listening LOUD.  The AVA equipment never flinched, and produced extremely clean sound.  Maybe the Salks would sound better with bajillion dollar electronics, but (1) I doubt it, and (2) it would be completely inconsistent with the Salk philosophy, which is to deliver accurate sound (and furniture-grade cabinets) at as reasonable price as possible.

[charmerci]

Maybe the Salks would sound better with bajillion dollar electronics, but (1) I doubt it, and (2) it would be completely inconsistent with the Salk philosophy, which is to deliver accurate sound (and furniture-grade cabinets) at as reasonable price as possible.

Hmmm. Maybe it's time for Dennis and Pete - aka Big Red Machine - to have a show-down...errr...a GTG! 

[Austin08]

No doubt, Salk and AVA is a great match but wouldn't it be nice to have a chance to listen the SS line mates with other exotic electronics. It may or may not indicate anything but just showing another flavor of it. Just my 2cts.

[DMurphy]

Hmmm. Maybe it's time for Dennis and Pete - aka Big Red Machine - to have a show-down...errr...a GTG! 

Right.  A GTG.   They always go so well.  Actually, BRM and I did get together over the world's most expensive meal.  Fortunately, Jim picked up the tab. 

[DMurphy]

Right.  A GTG.   They always go so well.  Actually, BRM and I did get together over the world's most expensive meal.  Fortunately, Jim picked up the tab.

Oooops.   Correction.   BRM must have had advance visions of $$$$$ dancing in his head, and he headed to the Marriott bar to hang out with AVS members.  Nuance and some great folk from Iowa were in attendance at the Mega-Meal. 

[Nuance]

Oooops.   Correction.   BRM must have had advance visions of $$$$$ dancing in his head, and he headed to the Marriott bar to hang out with AVS members.  Nuance and some great folk from Iowa were in attendance at the Mega-Meal. 

Yup. I still feel like we robbed Jim. Man that was expensive... Jim is a good guy!

[Meicheng]

Did you all go the steakhouse?

[Nuance]

Did you all go the steakhouse?

There were seven of us that went, including Jim and Dennis.

[audiotom]

OUGrad05
wow

thank you for your detailed and insightful comments on the RMAF show.

I wanted to cordially welcome you to the Salk board, based on your post count, looks like you are new to audio circle and I appreciate you sharing your experiences. Was this your first time hearing Salks?

Last year I attended the event, my sole purpose to touch base again with Jim, hear the Soundscape 10s (actually 12s where there) and then go room to room hearing the competition.  The only speakers I heard that exceeded then (by a small margin) were the Vandersteen 7s, and with mega buck Audio Research and turntable driving them and at 3 1/2 times the cost. The Salk / Van Alstine combo works wel. Many speakers in the $10-$70K had none of the presence, tonal accuracy, and all the other qualities that make the experience musically engaging.

It speaks highly of Jim and Dennis' passion perfected.

These speakers are keepers so aim high and if you have a significant other, bring her in on the finish choices!

[michaelhigh]

Guess Stereophile doesn't agree with jtwrace:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/sweet-streams-salk-and-van-alstine 

"Texas-style blues (Could it have been Stevie Ray Vaughan?) sounded appropriately smooth, sweet, and articulate."

Opinions are like stereo systems, everyone has one (or at least one!)...

[OUGrad05]

OUGrad05
wow

thank you for your detailed and insightful comments on the RMAF show.

I wanted to cordially welcome you to the Salk board, based on your post count, looks like you are new to audio circle and I appreciate you sharing your experiences. Was this your first time hearing Salks?

Last year I attended the event, my sole purpose to touch base again with Jim, hear the Soundscape 10s (actually 12s where there) and then go room to room hearing the competition.  The only speakers I heard that exceeded then (by a small margin) were the Vandersteen 7s, and with mega buck Audio Research and turntable driving them and at 3 1/2 times the cost. The Salk / Van Alstine combo works wel. Many speakers in the $10-$70K had none of the presence, tonal accuracy, and all the other qualities that make the experience musically engaging.

It speaks highly of Jim and Dennis' passion perfected.

These speakers are keepers so aim high and if you have a significant other, bring her in on the finish choices!

I am new to the board yes.  But felt compelled to express my experience with Salk.  I had a great experience with PSB as I mentioned...

I will be calling Jim in the next 4 to 6 weeks to hopefully get the ball moving