movin' on up! comparisons/questions/advice for avr/pre pro

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guthriez

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i'm in the market for a home theater system, and am looking for some comparisons/advice regarding some specific equipment...

but first, a bit about me:

currently own (and love):
simaudio moon i1 integrated amp
powering b&w 705 speakers

i play mostly vinyl (i'm a dj), unless it's background, and then it comes from my computer.
i know i should get a dac, and a sub, and and and...

but for now, with my new 100" screen and epson 3850 projector, i 'need' a center channel and some mains, as i'll be using my 705's for surrounds.
which means i 'need' a new amp for 5.1+ sound.

my current research and curiosity surrounds the following:

Anthem P5 power amp
Bryston 9B SST2 power amp
Marantz MM7055 power amp

i guess this means that currently, i'm leaning towards a pre/pow setup. first i should confirm that i can use a Marantz SR6007 or 7007 as the pre stage and for surrounds (if i don't end up with all 5 powered from the power amp) and still have a viable system if i end up in a place that won't accommodate the sound levels from the power amp as well (i move around a fair bit for my job). specifically, i'm interested in what, if anything, i'd be giving up by getting the Marantz power amp vs. either the bryston or anthem products... realizing the significant difference in cost.

my priorities for this system start with quality sound, but i value durability and warranty close behind.

while i'm at it, i may as well mention that i'm planning on purchasing a B&W cmc2 center channel speaker for $800 (used), but am open to suggestions.
i am also in the market for a pair of main speakers of similar quality/price (call it $1500 for a pair). these can be floor standing or (large-ish) bookshelf, whatever.
finally, suggestions for a sub in the same range would be helpful as well. $800-$1200 would be ideal.

any comments, suggestions, or direct-experience comparisons would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your help
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srb

Re: movin' on up! comparisons/questions/advice for avr/pre pro
« Reply #1 on: 14 Oct 2012, 06:57 pm »
You can certainly use a Marantz 6007, 7007 or any receiver that has 5.1 or greater preamp outputs to both drive surround speakers from the internal amplifier and act as a preamp for the L/R/C speakers.  Many people do this, and unless you are concentrating on multi-channel music that requires high output capability in a large room, the power rating available to the surrounds is not so important.
 
Most will agree that if you are using a center channel speaker, it's nice to have all three front speakers from the same or similar series to provide a seamless and tonally matched sound when panning across the front speakers.  The surrounds can be different and I have mixed different types and brands of speakers for the surround pair.
 
So if you get a CM series center, I would be inclined to get CM series L/R, or a matched L/C/R regardless of the manufacturer or series.
 
As far as external power amplifiers, there is a huge difference in price between the $1200 Marantz MM7055 and the $8100 Bryston 9BSST2!  Another difference to also consider is that the Bryston is rated to 4 ohms, the Anthem to 2 ohms, but the Marantz is only rated down to 6 ohms, so the choice of speakers might influence the choice of an amplifier.  In my own personal experience, speakers are the core of it all, and I wouldn't mate an $8K amplifier with a $1.5K pair of speakers (or $3K surround set).
 
For subs in the $800 - $1200 range, a popular choice and good value are the Rythmik servo subwoofers and if music is more important than HT, I would choose a sealed model, otherwise one of the ported models would have greater output for HT use.
 
Steve

jarcher

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Re: movin' on up! comparisons/questions/advice for avr/pre pro
« Reply #2 on: 15 Oct 2012, 12:17 am »
Steve covered all the salient points so well that I find it hard to add much more, other than to confirm his suggestions. Having recently gone through a home theater re-vamp I can confirm that the main two speakers + center is where the most value for performance was achieved in my case : more than upgrading the amp + processor.

Amplification + Processor: Given what you've got, my suggestions would be to use the Marantz as processor + power for all but perhaps the front three speakers.  Consider second hand 3 & 5 channel amps - many good ones can be had for under $1K - including older stuff from Anthem, Parasound, etc. I recently compared older processors from Krell & Anthem and found that an Marantz AV7005 met & sometimes surpassed for sound quality, and killed them for features.  Price-wise there was no comparison.

Speakers + Subwoofers : Personally I think those B&W's 705's are too good to be doing service as lowly surrounds.  I'd keep them + the sim integrated for a separate or stand along side 2 channel system.

Choosing good home theater speakers is perhaps even a wider & more subjective choice than for 2 channel.  In my case I choose to go Magnepan because it offered colossal soundstage, imaging, transparency & speed and seemed to be the best bang for the buck. All good things particularly for home theater.

1.7s, which is what I have, retail for about $2K, but can be had second hand for around the $1,500 you suggested.  Used 1.6's for half that.  Magnepan in my opinion also makes a good center channel - even the lowly MMG-C at $300+ retail, which I have now, is quite good & better than any conventional box center channel I've had.  I actually like using a normal MMG on it's side even better.  Unfortunately Magnepans do seem to have a lower wife / girlfriend etc acceptance factor......

On subwoofers many people who have Magnepans like REL subwoofers because they tend to be sealed & tight / fast. - and have speaker level connections to match & keep pace w/ the main speakers.  REL is what I use as well.  Nonetheless if you are after the very deepest low frequency, probably better off w/ a Velodyne or JL audio, if within your budget.  Otherwise many recommend HSU, though I've not had personal experience. Lastly, would say that I'm starting to agree w/ folks who suggest dual subwoofers - not because of volume requirements or low frequency extension, but simply because dual ones better offer multi-directional bass & integrate w/ main channels (assuming level / crossover / etc is done properly).






guthriez

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Re: movin' on up! comparisons/questions/advice for avr/pre pro
« Reply #3 on: 15 Oct 2012, 05:40 pm »
Thanks for the responses, much appreciated.
I do have a few follow-up questions, as a result...

it used to be, back in the stereophonic dark ages, that you could apply the 25% budget rule to audio: 25% for inputs, 25% speakers, 25% amplification and 25% for cabling. how (roughly) does that get adjusted for today's HT applications?

given that i'm running b&w 705's currently as main/left rights, is the b&w cmc2 a good match for them? i do agree, i think my 705's are 'too good' for surrounds, and i love them too much to demote them as such.

even though i'm currently wife/girlfriend-less, the magnepans are a tough fit into my aesthetic. i appreciate that they are wondrous speakers, especially given their cost, but if they don't fit in with my decor (typically turn-of-century/craftsman), then i know that i'll end up resenting them, regardless of how they sound. it seems that they are a bit fussy to locate, as well? can you confirm this? also, is there another HT speaker set-up that you'd recommend that doesn't look like a halloween mock-up of the obelisk from 2001? (i only partly jest!). again, budget to be about $1500 for mains, maybe $800 for center, and surrounds for another $1000? or, if you know of a likely place to source a single, used b&w 705 for sale? i'd happily use one for my center channel.

amplification: with the high rate of technology turnover, it seems like the marantz avr is the way to go, given features, sound, and price. for amplification, i was looking towards longevity, durability, and warranty, as well as pure sound quality, recognizing that (barring a massive renaissance in amplification technology) the power amp(s) i decide upon will likely/ideally be used in my system for the next 20ish years. other than citing differing impedance values, is there anyone with exposure to the anthem P5 who could inform me further? basically, i'm curious as to whether, given a 20 year life-span, i'm better off buying the $9k bryston (with 20 year warranty, amongst other notable values/qualities), the $5k anthem (5 year warranty, etc. etc.), or a series of consumer-grade amps (such as the $1200 marantz mm7055) with their 3 year warranties and (questionably?) less thrilling but more up-to-date (technologically, over the 20 years) sound production?

please note, i do not wish to open the endless can of arguments here regarding 'old' and 'new' technologies (tubes, ss, etc.), as i'm sure that many other threads will expound upon this topic in mind-numbing detail. i also realize that many products will last longer than their stated warranties, but that given the current state of planned obsolescence and my less-than-light-touch with my audio gear (i move a lot, and am a dj... i'm just plain hard on equipment), it's a reasonable bench-mark for my uses (and a big part of why i bought my moon i1). i also highly value products made in north america.

i will look into the suggestions for subs, although my current living arrangement won't allow me such luxury. i will say that i like my bass tight an fast, as i play a lot of jazz and electronic music, and so it seems a sealed sub is the way to go for me. am i giving up much in terms of theater/low frequencies with that design? if i decide on dual subwoofers, is it suggested to match them (identical units), or will it sound odd if one unit is sealed & tight/fast, and the other is more...er... boomy? loose and low frequency inclined?

finally (apologies for wordiness!), regarding pairing $8k amplification with $3k speakers, etc. (and as it relates to my initial question of how to parse-out the budget for a HT system), i'm not averse to cherry-picking great equipment from a variety of price-points (used and new), but i'm a neophyte in this realm. it seems like the longest (potential) investment in a complete HT system would be the amplification, then speakers (and sub), then processor. using the magnepans mentioned, is there a typical 'shelf life' for speakers (or for amplification)? realizing that i'm not one that needs the newest latest greatest (i drive a 1953 pontiac...), appreciate longevity/durability, how long should i expect to have my components last before significant updates/changes (not just refinements) are made? can i expect to witness a noticeable difference in speakers every 5-6 years? processors seem to be on a 2 year cycle right now, but amps (again, seemingly) can last a deal longer, say 10-20 years. are these reasonable estimates (again, without getting into the vintage vs. bsn arguments)?

Thanks again for your thoughts and input
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jarcher

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Re: movin' on up! comparisons/questions/advice for avr/pre pro
« Reply #4 on: 16 Oct 2012, 03:13 am »
Will just address your questions in their approximate order:

(A) Wouldn't follow a set prescription about % to devote towards each area, whether 2 or multi-channel.  Nonetheless, it is best to take a balanced approach cost-wise to system building.  The ol "only as good as the weakest link".  Not always 100% true, but close enough true for this very subjective hobby. 

(B) Unfortunately can't speak directly about the B&W CMC2 as I don't have personal experience.  I would agree w/ Steve that it's preferable to keep the mains + center similar to give a nice seamless quality to the front sound presentation.  E.g you don't want dialogue when panning from center to mains changing timbre and sounding off.

So short answer : decide what you want for the mains, then try to get something similar sounding for center.  Many people of course don't follow that.

(C) Magnepans / speakers : can definitely understand that many don't want 5+ foot monoliths in their room, particularly if it isn't a "dedicated" room.  They can be had or "re-socked" to help disappear more.  An interesting alternative is there on-wall systems though (MMG-W or MC1), and again, as they are available in many colors, about the most likely to "disappear" speaker, short of in-wall units & other hidden speaker systems.  I've heard MMG-W & MC1, and still prefer big 1.7's for mains, but they do a very good job at low cost.  They must be mated with a sub-woofer though as they don't do bass.

As for placement - I have not found them to be that fussy.  They do like to be out at least two feet from the rear wall & 5+ feet apart.  They can be placed very close to side walls though as they are dipole and there is little to no sound emanating from the sides.

That's all I'll pitch Magnepan for now! 

As for other alternatives, many find PSB to be a very good value in home theater speaker systems with a "conventional" design.  Often you can even find super cheap as "b" stock for some of their older series.  They would definitely be in the budget you referenced.  Paradigm & Totem, two other Canadian companies, also have good products and are good values.  Totem has the possibility of being at the top end of your budget depending on the product series.  I also have a Totem-based HT sound system (Arro + dreamcatcher) that is within your budget & it does very good duty for both 2 channel & home theater.  Excellent sound stage, very fast / tight, and very nice aesthetic & build quality. 

As for subs - I really think they are almost a "must" for home theater, and I'm not a super-deep bass junky.  You can always turn them off when you're not doing movies / games.  There are many subs that are quite small, reasonably priced, and blend well with decor.  For that I have to tip my hat to REL.  I have a T-5, Absolute Sound winner, in a beautiful white piano finish, looks awesome w/ cherry Totem speakers.  Very tight / fast.  For the basement I have a REL T1 that I got cheap on closeout from Vann's.  If you got a big room, I really think you want dual subs, but if you have a small living room, then I think you can get a way with one. The purpose of dual subs is really to properly fill in the sound so it's as omni-directional as possible vs just to get more volume / low frequency. I think this is a bigger challenge the bigger the room.

(D) Preamp / Processor + Amplification

Yes, HT processors seem to have a 1-2 year shelf life & depreciate like a stone.  Can't imagine what new bell & whistle will be considered "mandatory" a year or two down the road vs today.  That's why I think it's best not to spend more than $1K approx on a receiver or processor.  Maybe you miss that last 5 - 10% of sound quality of a megabuck boutique manufacturer unit, but you don't lose thousands on the resale / trade in either. Have proven that to myself w/ personal, recent & reasonably extensive testing (see my other posts in HT circle). Use the Marantz's you've mentioned - especially if you've already bought / paid for them.  Trust me - you'll be just as happy.

As for the amp - you are correct that if you get one you like, there's little reason to ever change it.  My suggestion would be to save yourself some $ though & if you want an Anthem, always a safe choice, get a used MCA5, MCA50, PVA7 depending on how many channels you need, all of which can be had for $500 - $900.  I doubt somehow that a P5 is somehow going to be so much better - but I could be wrong.

Also, wouldn't discard Marantz vs Anthem etc just because they make mass market stuff.  They also make VERY expensive & VERY well made high-end stuff.  Still - I'd go for used.  Anthem, Parasound, Integra, Harman Kardon Citation, all good choices, the list goes on.

Also, wouldn't worry too much about the warranty.  I had a channel go bad (because of my mistake) on a 15 year old Acurus multichannel & it cost me $125 to fix.  You don't want to spend thousands or even hundreds more just for a warranty.  The Bryston 20 year transferable warranty is a very smart marketing move I'm surprised more manufacturers haven't emulated & helps their re-sale value.  Just don't buy because of that.  With that said, many feel Bryston is some of the best SS amplification if within your budget.

Lastly - re: "shelf life".  I don't think there is ever a shelf life for a good speaker in operating condition.  I use speakers ranging from 1 - 20 years old.  They all provide me satisfaction in their own way. Same I think is true for amplification. 

Digital sources is the one thing that I would say does keep getting better & cheaper and may have a shorter shelf life.  This includes cd players, DACs, and home theater processors.  With that said, I have an early DAC that's tube based which would seem a dinosaur by today's standards, and I gave it to a friend who loves it more than any other digital product he's tried.  So to each his own.

Best of luck to you.  Parting words : find a good dealer or friend to help guide you based on your personal listening preferences, and try as much stuff out hopefully by borrowing or buying used before committing the big bucks. And lastly, if you're enjoying what you're using, don't sweat the other stuff as much.  After all - the whole point is supposedly to enjoy the media vs the gear.  This is not true for many audio / videophiles, but it should be the standard.

srb

Re: movin' on up! comparisons/questions/advice for avr/pre pro
« Reply #5 on: 16 Oct 2012, 04:14 am »
One thing you might also consider is that if you enjoy the sound of the B&W 705, you might consider adding a used HTM 7 center channel speaker.  The 705s are decent sounding speakers and their main fault is only that they don't have a lot of bass output, but what they do have is clean and tight.  With the addition of a well integrated subwoofer(s) the 705s are transformed to provide a very enjoyable full range sound.
 
The HTM 7 center uses the same drivers as the 705 and is an exact match except for being in a horizontal cabinet.  The only problem might be is that it is a little tall for a just less than 18" wide center channel speaker at 12.1" high, so it depends on your available center channel space dimensions.  Because the 7 series is discontinued, you will need to find a used one, and they pop up now and then on Audiogon and eBay for around $450 - $550.  I owned an HTM 7 and was pleased with it, but sold it when I changed front speakers.
 

 
I have always enjoyed the also discontinued B&W DM302 speaker ($250 retail, $125 used), and used these as my surround speakers even when I had a pair of $6500 floorstanders driven by a $2500 amplifier, and still use them as surrounds today.
 
Steve

guthriez

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Re: movin' on up! comparisons/questions/advice for avr/pre pro
« Reply #6 on: 16 Oct 2012, 03:51 pm »
Thanks again for your comprehensive advice and thoughts. I will post my system upgrades when i get them!

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guthriez

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well, i pulled the trigger... halfway
« Reply #7 on: 20 Oct 2012, 03:18 am »
well,

just bought an Emotiva XPA-5 for $575 + shipping from audiogon. 'near mint' and 'about 2 hrs use' were quoted...
then went looking around at/for processors, or even full avr's with (preferably) balanced, or at least unbalanced pre-outs...
lots of options, lots of number crunching, humming and haw'ing, etc.
decided that, for $499 and free shipping, the brand-new Emotiva UMC-1 wasn't bad... not everything i really wanted, but certainly everything i needed (immediately).
and as an added bonus, Emotiva will knock $600 off the cost of their new, as-yet-unreleased but flagship-to-be XMC-1, which looks to actually have everything i'm wanting (hdmi 1.4 switching with 4k compatibility, upgrade-ability via a linux based platform, balanced outputs, onboard DAC, etc.), bringing that down to a very comfortable $900... and i still get to keep the UMC-1! Too bad i don't have a little brother =] now let's hope that XMC-1 is a fair-match, sound-wise, with the marantz 7701 i was lusting after (love their aesthetics).

so... sigh. now i 'need' a center channel. unfortunately i'm an aesthetic stickler, and my rose/cherry b&w 705's don't match the black htm7 on ebay for $500...
and of course, while i was shopping around, i had the misfortune to listen to a pair of linn majik 140's... which makes me want to save my pennies and maybe get the matching majik 112 center in the mean-time...

then again, i also just saw a bryston 9bsst pro listed at $3k on augiogon... arghh!
ha ha... so many choices and opportunities.
Thanks for inducting me into the community of hobbyists.

i'll keep you apprised as i go along

current conundrums: center channel speaker (htm7 in black, or wait until xmas to gift myself with the lovely linn majik 112 center in anticipation of one day (soon-ish?) scoring a pair of the majik 140's (a pair of which, *presto!* are on augiogon for $1700 + $300 shipping to US in their gorgeous cherry finish...)

jeez... how do you guys keep your credit-cards in-check?!?
and nobody mentioned the 'hot flashes' accompanied by impatience with buying what you want! ha ha.

Thanks again
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guthriez

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when it rains...
« Reply #8 on: 20 Oct 2012, 07:29 pm »
and now...

this just in:
B&W HTM7 in light cherry in 'like new' condition (i can see discoloration on the front from the front grills... anyone know how to remedy that? i prefer running no grills)
audiogon: $350+ shipping.
sold!

hope to have my system up and running next weekend if all the shipping works out!

Tagg
can now stop sweating as the urge has abated... now i just wanna listen =]

srb

Re: movin' on up! comparisons/questions/advice for avr/pre pro
« Reply #9 on: 20 Oct 2012, 07:56 pm »
Cherry is the most susceptible to darkening with age and exposure to light.  It doesn't have to be direct sunlight either, diffuse room light will do it to a lesser degree.  I have seen numerous B&Ws that have been used with the grill on look like this.

You might be able to even it out a bit, but I doubt you can get rid of the difference entirely without complete refinishing.  There is a satin clear top coat that may or may not respond to penetrating coloration at this point.
 
I would get some Watco Danish oil in Medium Walnut color.  The Cherry color is a bit too red, and I have found the Medium Walnut to be my "go to" color for most everything.  'Medium Walnut' sounds a bit dark, but here is a picture of it on regular American Red Oak:
 

 
You could first try it as is and see if it will take any of the color.  If not, the next step would be to gently remove the clear top finish with fine synthetic 'steel' wool, available at most hardware and home center stores.  You don't want to use actual steel wool, whose particles will find their way to the woofer and tweeter voice coil or dust cap magnetic fields.
 
You can apply and rub it in with a cloth or even with the synthetic steel wool.  After 10 or 15 minutes, wipe it completely off until the wiping cloths are clean.
 
At that price, it is a good interim (or long term ?) buy that can be easily sold with little if any loss.  Let us know what you think of the system when you get it all together.  Have you decided on any surrounds yet?
 
Steve

guthriez

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Re: movin' on up! comparisons/questions/advice for avr/pre pro
« Reply #10 on: 20 Oct 2012, 11:18 pm »
thanks for the tips regarding refinishing, i'll definitely give them a try.

i have some old paradigm phantom bookshelf speakers that i'll likely drag out into surround duty. at least until i can find something more suitable. suggestions? this is definitely the area i know least (and care least) about. perhaps i'm misguided as to the significance of surrounds and what they really (in a 5.1 system) bring to the experience. likely next up will be a sub, and if the paradigm's are simply awful for surrounds i'll replace them, too.

Thanks
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jarcher

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Re: movin' on up! comparisons/questions/advice for avr/pre pro
« Reply #11 on: 21 Oct 2012, 01:59 am »
Glad to hear your system is coming along.  Never heard any complaints about the emotiva amp you got.  As for the UMC-1, presumably it sounds decent for the money, and the principle negative has been reports of it having been buggy - but hopefully that's mostly been resolved with firmware updates. But I am recycling second hand information & don't have direct 1st hand experience.  As I believe all sales are final on the UMC-1, I would wait a while after the XMC-1 has been out to buy to make sure they work any potential bugs out of that one.  HT processors are very complex beasts.

For the speakers, I personally think the front three + the sub are the most important.  W/ your restricted low frequency B&Ws, I'd definitely be shopping for a quality sub.  I like / own REL's because they are tight & fast so good for music + movie, but some feel other brands are better / deeper and better bang for the buck for movie effects.

The side (and back if you do 7 channel) speakers I think make much less of a difference - BUT you really do use them to get the full effect / enjoyment out of movie soundtracks.  I.e. I don't believe it's a good idea to do just 3.1, unless your exclusively doing simple / quiet movies - i.e. lot's of talking head stuff, not much action.

To me the principle difference for surround speakers is direct vs dipole / bipole.  The former are going to sound more "direct" - i.e gun shots / effects / etc, whereas a dipole / bipole type will sound more diffuse but potentially create a wider more full surround sound effect.  I've done both & still not sure which one I prefer. 

As to specific brands etc, as previously mentioned, I haven't found spending a lot here to pay out as much as w/ the front 3 channels + the sub, where most of the sound information is. So, if I were you would start w/ the paradigms.  If there a wife / GF acceptance factor, consider in-wall or in-ceiling.

Best of luck!

guthriez

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subs, surrounds, processors
« Reply #12 on: 21 Oct 2012, 03:59 am »
i couldn't find any info limiting the time to redeem the coupon worth $600 towards the new XMC-1, perhaps i should have done my due-diligence as a consumer and called or written to find out...
getting caught-up in the moment, i suppose!

thanks for the advice regarding waiting a while for the upgrade. i recall researching the bugginess of the UMC-1, but dismissed it once i'd read that the issue had been put to bed. i'll certainly not be one of the first to get the new XMC-1, let alone sign up for their waiting list =]

in speaking with a few salespeople at bricks-n-mortar establishments, the RELs seem a popular choice, but i never nailed down what about them (specifically their wiring?) was so unique? care to shed some light... i'm honestly researched out at the moment, and just running through a bunch of favorite songs for some of the last times with my current rig.

also, it just occurred to me, but the power amp i'm getting is 200w per channel, while my 705's are rated to 120w. Should i be concerned about wearing the speakers out (particularly thermally?) by putting more juice through them than they're designed to handle? the research i've done around this is kind of confusing... some quote 2xRMS or constant wattage, others use other equations. i guess i just want someone to tell me definitively that i'm not going to blow up my speakers with my new amp. like i said, i'm hard on equipment, so i've grown used to buying smaller amps that can't possibly over-drive my speakers (my moon i1 is only 50w/channel), in case my volume selector gets a bit frisky while the neighbors are away...

finally, at this point, should i be worried about what kinds of cables i use? specifically the rca connections between amp and pre amp, and later the xlr ballanced connections that will replace those? i use nice quality oxygen free copper speaker cables currently... they're not wrist-thick by any means, but they do the job and are long enough to provide me lots of freedom with speaker/rack placement (key, since i move around a fair bit). any particular winners for these lowly but oh-so-important bits?

thanks again
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srb

Re: subs, surrounds, processors
« Reply #13 on: 21 Oct 2012, 04:36 am »
ii guess i just want someone to tell me definitively that i'm not going to blow up my speakers with my new amp.

You're not going to blow up your speakers with your new amp.  Definitively.  Well honestly not definitively, but your speakers can take higher peaks for short durations.  Common sense should prevail, and you shouldn't drive them to the point beyond their obvious limit that they start distorting.  I mean, who would want to?
 
True, you run more of a risk if the volume is accidentally turned way up, but I see that more of a problem when driving an amplifier directly without a preamplifier and using the volume control on say a computer, where either a software blip or not realizing where the volume control is set results in a full wide-open volume assault.
 
I have had several setups where my amplifier had twice the power rating (or more) as the speakers.  Most people will tell you that you run a greater risk of damaging speakers with an underpowered amp, which for the most part is true.  When you drive a solid state amp to clipping, what that means is that you have clipped off the top of the waveform and essentially created a square wave containing an infinite (up to its frequency bandwith extreme) number of odd harmonics resulting in a high energy content speaker-thrashing voice coil-burning signal.  So it's usually far better to have enough power and headroom to avoid clipping.
 
Steve

jarcher

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Re: movin' on up! comparisons/questions/advice for avr/pre pro
« Reply #14 on: 21 Oct 2012, 05:11 am »
I'm somewhat new to the subwoofer world and previously didn't think I needed them or wanted to mess w/ trying to integrate them, but found they were a necessary evil for the limited lower frequency speakers I use for 2 separate home theater systems I run.  I'd say I chose REL for the following reasons:

1) REL is devoted exclusively to subwoofers. That doesn't mean that other full line speaker companies may not also make good ones - or even better ones - but I think that's a good sign.

2) Mostly very good cosmetics on their later lines - and just a quality feel to the stuff you see & feel (finish / knobs / etc).  Even the entry level serie-T are very attractive.  Their marketing refutes even the term "entry level" for that series.  I am a sucker for aesthetics & the piano gloss white T-5 I have looks great.  The black T-1 I have hidden behind a speaker, so less important.  But the T-5 can be seen - so it better look decent.

3) REL uses this special high level speaker connection that I agree really helps it keep time w/ the main speakers.  One of the reason many Magnepan planar speaker owners use them because it's felt these keep up speed-wise w/ the the fast planar speakers. This is in part due to there often sealed (vs ported) design, and I think also the speaker level connector, so that both the sub & the main speakers are getting the same signal at the same time.

The REL T-5 definitely keeps up w/ the fast Totem Arros I have.  The T-1 is not as quick w/ my Magnepan 1.7's, but not too bad.

Some feel REL is too expensive.  You can find demo's on web dealers such as music direct or sometimes closeouts on Vann's, etc.  That's how I bought mine.

Anyway - if that sounds too much like a commercial for REL, what I would really suggest is that you seek out owners of the B&W's you have that use subs & see what they like.  And whatever you buy, preferably get it from a dealer w/ a good return policy.

As for your power concerns of the emotiva amp w/ the 705's : rest assured that you're ok.  For starters, assuming the ratings are accurate, there's not that much of a difference between 125W & 200W.  As for the rest of the reasons : won't repeat SRB whose explained it better than I could.

Interconnect choice is a big can of worms.  My recommendation for starters + the gear you've mentioned is not to spend more than $100 on any pair of cabling, whether it's analog, interconnects, digital, etc.  Perhaps not even on speaker cables.  Not at least until you've had the chance to experience / own & get a feeling for what you like or not, what you can hear, and what you can't.  And for that your best bet is to work w/ a dealer that has a decent selection of cables, knows how they sound & if a good match for your gear, and will loan them to you to try out.  If you don't have such a dealer near you, then The Cable Co I think is a decent choice.  http://www.thecableco.com/.  They are supposed to have a cable "lending library".  You can get up to 20% better pricing from some dealers, but otherwise they seem a good choice for cables.

I can't resist suggesting my preferred brand : Wireworld.  In interconnects their Luna ($37 1m) & Oasis 6 ($99 1M) are good values, depending on your budget.  Your amp & processor would benefit from a better than stock power cable.  Wireworld Stratus 5 ($70 1M) would be a good start.  And for speaker cable their Orbit ($130 2M) & Oasis 6 ($285 2M) series are good choices.  All these I mention have strong reviews / recommendations from What Hi-Fi, so some 3rd party justification for mentioning them.  But most importantly : try before you buy if possible.