Anyone familiar with the Joule Electra LA100 MKIII?

Nikko · « **on:** 7 Feb 2003, 04:00 pm »

I may be in the market for a new preamp soon, depending on whether or not my Melos SHA Gold Reference's volume control (pho-tentiometer) is repairable. A remote is a must and without it I'll have to sell it.

I'm interested in the Joule Electra LA100 MKIII. Does anyone have experience with this preamp and, if so, can you tell me about it? From what I've read so far it sounds like what I'm looking for. I'm also considering the Sonic Frontiers Line 3, for the sake of syngery with my Power 2 amp. But I don't necessarily want as many tubes in my preamp as the Line 3 has and I'm also not wild about the outboard power supply. Any thoughts on these preamps or any other recommendations would be mucho appreciated!

Jay S · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Feb 2003, 05:17 pm »

I've had this exact preamp for over a year now. Mine has the optional silver wiring and remote control (volume, balance). My amp has a rather low input impedance (8k ohms) and the Joule has no problem driving it. I have not had any problems with the pre, which I had bought used after it had been serviced by the factory.

I haven't had a chance to compare the Joule with any peer preamps. But, to me, it seems to be quite transparent, musical and neutral. This is not a euphonic, rolled-off tube preamp. It delivers the frequency extremes, and does not bloat the midrange. On many recordings my system sounds wonderful to me, which speaks well of the pre. Voices can be pure and real. Stage performances and orchestral pieces sound large and powerful.

I had been considering many tubed pres before I got the Joule, including the Melos Musical Director, AI Modulus 3, Cary SLP-98, SF, Ayre, etc. Based on what I had read online (formal reviews, user feedback), the Joule seemed to be the best of the lot, and could best be compared with the CAT, which lists for $5k.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions that I can help with.

doug s. · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Feb 2003, 06:00 pm »

i'd recommend repairing the melos. even if ya have to lose the photentiometer, you will still like it w/a remote-control alps pot. this is how my music-director is configured. sure, i'd like it to have a fotentiometer, but meanwhile, i am plenty happy w/its present performance. it's currently getting the m.a.r. all-tube mod, i cannot wait to get it back!

the j/e pre's were on my list of pre's to try, when i was in the market, but i stopped searching, when i heard the melos. it absolutely crushed the cary slp98 i was using, which was better than the rogue 99-magnum, which was not as nice as the linn kairn pre before that. in fairness to the rogue, tho, there was a definite impedence mismatch in my system w/it. but, against the rogue, its impedence spec is way optimistic by a factor of twenty, or so... from what i have heard folks comment on the j/e, i'd definitely get one w/the all-silver wire mod, as they are wery dark-sounding w/o it. again, i have no 1st-hand experience w/this.

re: the sonic-frontiers, again no 1st hand experience, but those i've heard from, say it's more like a s/s preamp. and, w/somthing like twelve tubes in it, it isn't the cheapest to keep running. i spoke w/a guy who was selling both his melos & his sonic frontiers; he said the melos was far & away the better sounding pre. he was getting a super-spendy all in one h/t rig as i recall, & he mentioned prolly sacrificing a bit of 2-channel quality to do this...

doug s.

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Feb 2003, 06:33 pm »

I think Kishore used to have this JE model, if I remember correctly. We compared the JE to the Bent preamp and a DIY preamp and found that the JE was the worst sounding. At least, that was my impression. It was too warm sounding and slow. The bass was really bloated/ill-defined. I was not at all impressed.

Nikko · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Feb 2003, 11:31 pm »

I'm sooo glad I didn't ship my preamp off to good 'ol Will at Melos Audio Restorations, Doug. I'm surprised you've had good luck with him because, quite frankly, I've found that his customer service is about the same as when Melos was in business. I have sent him numerous emails inquiring about schematics and other issues and, for whatever reason, he's decided that ignoring me is more appropriate than telling me he's not interested in my business. I wouldn't let that ass work on my $5.00 Wal Mart clock radio let alone my preamp. BTW, you didn't happen to mention to him that there was a new sherrif in town, figuratively speaking, in the Melos repair business? Perhaps he knows I'm having the work done elsewhere and that is why he doesn't want to talk to me.

Here's a couple more reasons why I wouldn't send my preamp to him. I spoke to someone recently who sent their SHA Gold Reference to him for a simple repair and this person was told they couldn't get it fixed without having the basic mod done to it. What kind crap is that? I spoke to someone else who wanted to use Auricaps for the upgrade instead of the Solens (Solens are an upgrade?) he normally uses and he charged a whopping $600.00 on top of the $400.00 he normally charges for the basic update just to use Auricaps. The extra $600.00 doesn't include any changes to the resistors or diodes and he doesn't change the power supply caps either. Ridiculous! I spent a little over $500.00 and had all my resistors updated to NOS Holco's and Caddocks, the diodes are Harris, the power supply caps are a combination of Blackgate NX and standard, and all the rest of the caps are Auricaps. For about $500.00 less than Will charges!

Anyway, once I get the volume control issue fixed it's going up for sale. Carlo has a spare pho-tentiometer and hopefully it'll make it back here without breaking. I'll take $1200.00 if anyone's interested!

http://www.ellisaudio.com/melos-sgr 001.jpg

doug s. · « **Reply #5 on:** 8 Feb 2003, 04:59 am »

nikko, w/the work being done to your pre, plus a new photentiometer, i can't imagine you'll find anything anywhere near as good sonically, for $1200, except perhaps mebbe a music-director!

anyone listening in here should grab this thing, it's a fantastic sounding piece.

i'm sorry you and your friend had a bad experience w/will; i have been more fortunate. there were some "issues" w/my music-director when i first got it - all the music-director upgrades were not done by the original melos, & will took good care of me. and, i'd have to check to verify, but i believe the new caps, besides being oversized, were mit caps, not solens. i *do* know that if i specified specific brand caps/resistors, etc., i would certainly verify the cost difference prior to any work being done, regardless of who was doing the work... i also know will had some *issues* w/a former employee; perhaps this was what caused these other bad experiences.

in the present case, will has agreed to replace a damaged remote-control pot & a damaged rca jack (which *i* damaged - don't ask how...

), as well as perform the all-tube mod, which removes all the mosfets from the circuit. and, he has agreed to replace the resistors required to reduce the pre's gain by 6db - this thing has a *ton* of gain, really my only complaint about it, as i could never get the wolume pots past about 11:00, w/o blasting me out of the room... anyway, the cost is only gonna be $325, which includes return shipping...

i'm glad you have found another competent tech to work on yer melos, competion can only be a good thing, but all i know is that will has treated me fairly. i'll be sure to alert him to the fact that there's folk less-than-enamoured of his services, i'm sure it will only help him improve in the future, if improvement is needed. if there *are* serious issues here, & he doesn't get w/the program, well, i'm sure that this good ol' fashioned competition thing will do its job...

regards,

doug s.

Nikko · « **Reply #6 on:** 8 Feb 2003, 05:53 am »

Doug...I've owned this preamp since it was brand new over five years ago. I loved the sound of it back then and I'm sure, with these updates, it's on par with some of the best preamps available. Assuming I get it back and it's functioning properly who knows how long it'll run before something else goes wrong with it. It always come down to the issue of service. I have no idea how long Carlo will be offering his services and, if it pukes again, I'm not going to deal with Will. So it's time to cut my losses and move on. I should have unloaded this thing a long time ago.

I'll be auditioning a Joule Electra LA100 MKIII tomorrow in my system. I've also been advised by a Audio Circle member whom I trust that the Audio Valve Eklipse is a sweet preamp. I may audition that as well.

doug s. · « **Reply #7 on:** 8 Feb 2003, 06:26 am »

well, nikko, w/the exception of the photentiometer itself, i have found most of the melos pre's to be pretty reliable. mine is ~7 years old, now, i've owned it two years, &, except for the damage i did to it myself, it's been trouble-free.

in any event, please keep us updated - i was also considering the j/e, when i got my melos. another one i was considering, was the vtl tl-5.5; may wanna check that one out. if so, be siure to get the last iteration - they did a major change (not retro-fittable) and it's the same model - no name change. the audio-valve stuff is certainly pretty to look at! also may wanna check out the latest kora eclipse - also supposed to be nice...

regards,

doug s.

Jay S · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Feb 2003, 12:30 pm »

Nikko,

Have fun at your audition tomorrow. Its great that you can audition it at home. Do keep us posted.

I had read that some feel that the Joule sounds a bit dark. Mine has the silver wire option. It doesn't sound dark to me.

I am curious about the Bent preamp, especially now that it is available with a remote control. My problem is that my digital amp has an input impedance of just 8k ohms. I'm in touch with John Chapman about this - he is great to deal with, by the way.

Nikko · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Feb 2003, 03:34 pm »

This is the preamp I'll be listening to: http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?preatube&1048866691 The owner, whom I had a great conversation with yesterday, is only 30 minutes from me.

I just noticed that the J/E and Melos pre's use the same knobs. I wonder if that's an omen.

Nikko · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Feb 2003, 04:06 pm »

Just out of curiosity, Doug, ask Will why he's never been able to get Mark Porzilli to redesign the photentiometer. The only thing I can up with is that he doesn't condone Will's work. I don't want an Alps pot in my unit. If I have to make a choice I'll go with a DACT even though it's not remote. Sonically the Alps pot is not as good as the Melos photentiometer.

It's interesting that I never see Porzilli's name mentioned in any of the Audio Circles (no pun intended). What happened to him?

On a side note, I remember we were discussing the Pipedreams recently. According this article ( http://www.nearfieldacoustics.com/Review2.htm ) Porzilli and Melos were responsible for the design.

doug s. · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 Feb 2003, 05:04 pm »

i understand that the silver-wire option is the one to get, to avoid the supposed dark sound. nikko, i bet ya like the pre - whether or not it's decidedly better than your melos is another question. but, from your experience w/your melos, i understand why ya may be happy even if it's the same, or close!

also, it can be upgraded to the la150 later...

re: a revised (more reliable) porzilli potentiometer, i know will has been working on this, but he sez he's way too busy, & this is a back-burner project. i also understand porzili is sort of a recluse, & not wery active in this stuff any more... while i agree that the photentiometer is a better pot than the alps (and any other pot, imo, for that matter), i doubt that jed barbour's pot is much better than the alps pot either. jed is great, i discussed switching my melos pots w/his a while back, & we both came to the conclusion that little would be gained sonically... now, if a ladder-style remote pot like bent's could be configured for the melos, this would be an option to consider...

good luck,

doug s.

Nikko · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Feb 2003, 05:38 pm »

Given that the photentiometer was probably one of the biggest selling points and largely contributed to their excellent sound, and given the almost 100% failure rate, it seems to me that if Will was truly working on a redesigned unit it wouldn't be a "back burner" project. Make sure you let him know when you talk to him that I'll bet many of the people who abandonded their Melos preamps did so because of this very issue. If he has any intention of every addressing the photentiometer issue he needs to make it a priority. Without a photentiometer it aint a Melos and is far less desirable. Which ultimately impacts the value of this gear and his business.

doug s. · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 Feb 2003, 09:12 pm »

i was told that the fotentiometer failure rate was 75% due to shipping - it is *wery* sensitive to proper set-up/alignment. while the 1st melos i ever heard had the fotentiometer, & was certainly excellent - it was what made me buy my music director - these things are fantastic even w/o it. mine has never had one since i've owned it, & it's still an amazing piece. and ask the countless other satisfied owners of the sha-1, sha-3, and earlier ma-110/220/etc preamps. sure, a few come up f/s every so often, but not many considering how many are out there. and, they don't stay f/s for long. even w/melos' poor service reputation, they still sell quickly. bottom line - they are great sounding gear. i am interested in your opinion how other highly regarded (and quite a bit more expensive) gear compares to your present preamp.

regards,

doug s.

Nikko · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Feb 2003, 11:57 pm »

The audition just ended and I was very surprised by the results. The first thing I noticed about the J/E is that it's a lot quieter than my SGR. Though I can't confirm this yet I was told by Carlo that with the Blackgates in the power supply my SGR is also extremely quiet. Contrary to what I've heard I didn't find the J/E to be dark sounding at all. I did think it was somewhat forward in it's presentation. Nice bass, not rolled off really on either end. Very nice piece. But I didn't think it was better than my SHA Gold Reference. My fiancee and I both agree that my Melos is more involving than the J/E. It's faster, seemed to have more body and also throw a bigger soundstage than the J/E. The J/E may have been a tad more detailed but there's another area that is sure to improve with the updates. Wow, I didn't expect this! Now I can't wait to get my preamp fixed and hear it. To be honest I really wanted to love the J/E just to have an excuse to get rid of my Melos. Now I'm not so sure I'll be able to beat it without taking out a second mortgage. It may have to stay.

doug s. · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Feb 2003, 05:15 am »

hi nikko,

i'm not surprised the j/e wasn't dark - everyone who's listened sez the silver-wire upgrade ameliorates this. also not surprised it barely held its own w/yer sha-gold-r, even prior to the mods!

you can't wait to get *yer* modded pre back? i can't wait to get my music-director back, w/the all-tube circuit mod!

the only way yure gonna improve in all areas over what yer sha-gold-r, w/o having to do that second-mortgage thing (and, even then, i'm doubtful the improvements will be significant, in all areas), will be to get a ma333r/music-director.

and, even then, from my experience w/the 1st sha-gold i ever heard, & from others that have compared the ma333 to the sha-gold, there's only a 5%-10% improvement between the two. the ma333 is supposedly yust a true dual-mono wersion of the sha-gold...

regards,

doug s.

Nikko · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Feb 2003, 04:17 pm »

If you're comparing the Music Director to a regular SHA Gold, which is essentially a SHA-1 with a remote, yeah, the difference is pretty significant. On the SHA-1 and SHA Gold the preamp section was pretty much an after thought. They share the headphone circuit. On the Reference and Maestro the preamp section has more of it's own dedicated circuit. The Reference/Maestro is a lot closer to the MA333 than the SHA-1 or SHA Gold.

Doug...what does your MA333 have for coupling caps and PS caps? Did Will upgrade the old resistors and diodes and, if so, what are they?

doug s. · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Feb 2003, 07:07 pm »

nikko, yes, it's the sha-gold-r/maestro, that i'm referring to, as essentially being a non dual-mono wersion of the ma333-r/music-director. as my m-d is on its way to las vegas, i can't say for sure what's been changed. but, i know that will only changed about half the caps for the ma333 to m-d upgrade - what the original melos audio left out when the prewious owner had it upgraded... any other caps/diodes, were not done by will.

doug s.

rblnr · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Feb 2003, 06:48 pm »

Well this thread is exactly what I was looking for and a real bummer. Sold my SHA -Gold some years ago and have been doing everything through one-box 'high end' HT prepros since. Have finally given up on the possiblity of one box convenience and top notch 2 channel playback coexisting -- there was a direct connection to music with the SHA-Gold and CD player that all prepros I've heard/owned (excepting Meridian) have lacked. Am now going back to the tube preamp/CD player model. I'll stick a surround processor in the tape/HT loop.

The Joule was on the list and am disappointed to hear someone found it inferior to the SHA -Gold. Obviously I'll have to listen myself. Heard a VTL 5.5 I liked, but this is more money. Am looking to listen to the ARLS16mkII, Rogue 99, Cary 2002. Some more suggestions out there? Thanks.

In thinking about it, the SHA -Gold reminds me of a few past girlfriends -- maybe a little flaky or unreliable, but freakin' great when they're on. Probably I didn't value them enough either at the time and let them go as I did the Melos.

doug s. · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Feb 2003, 08:44 pm »

rblnr,

when i commenced searching for a tubed pre, (i was using linn kairn w/brilliant p/s), first up was the rogue 99 magnum. not really listenable in my rig - way to coloured, & no bass response. i attribute this to an impedence mismatch - even tho rogue sez 150 ohm output impedence, my crude testing w/resistors across the outputs indicates 2.5kohm is more likely... next up was cary slp98 - i loved the looks, the sound was good enuff to live with. (output impedence, rated at ~800 ohms, was *not* a problem w/the cary, btw...) but, i stumbled across a melos music director i yust had to try, cuz of a previous store audition of an sha-gold... well, the m-d put the cary on the trailer, which i kinda wished dint happen, cuz the cary was so pretty! but, sonics comes first...

doug s.