Next Cartridge for Amadeus

DavidS · « **on:** 30 Sep 2012, 01:50 am »

Hi

I am running a Denon 103 on my Amadeus. I liked the Denon better than an Ortofon Jubilee that I tried for a while (was too polite, lacked dynamics compared to the Denon). So thinking about what I try next - what matches well with this turntable and arm? Budget is around 1K - so pushing to an EMT 15 is probably not going to work for me. My phono is an Eastern Electric minimax (thinking this was part of the problem with the Jubilee).

threadkiller · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Sep 2012, 03:30 am »

I agree with your cartridge finding.
I love the Dynavector 20 low or high for $850...not sure how it would go with the minimax, however.

Sonny · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Sep 2012, 03:59 am »

Quote from: DavidS on 30 Sep 2012, 01:50 am

Hi

I am running a Denon 103 on my Amadeus. I liked the Denon better than an Ortofon Jubilee that I tried for a while (was too polite, lacked dynamics compared to the Denon). So thinking about what I try next - what matches well with this turntable and arm? Budget is around 1K - so pushing to an EMT 15 is probably not going to work for me. My phono is an Eastern Electric minimax (thinking this was part of the problem with the Jubilee).

WOW, I can't believe that the Denon was superior to the Jubilee, but hey, every ear and preference is different, right?

threadkiller · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Sep 2012, 07:48 am »

Could very well be system dependent or matching. I haven't heard any of those medium to lower priced Ortofons that I've liked. Even something like the 103, set up right, mind you, is musically more fun and engaging for me.

/mp · « **Reply #4 on:** 1 Oct 2012, 06:55 pm »

FWIW, I significantly upgraded from Denon 103D to Van den Hul MC1 on WTT&A. Enjoyed combination for well over decade. 2 worn styli and 1 cantilever broken by cleaning lady while dusting replaced/repaired by Mr. VdH all at much more reasonable prices than most other "high end" cartridges. Another plus is generous trade-in allowance towards different VdH cartridge. Downside is inescapable eventual retirement/death of Mr. VdH. New MC1's cost more than your stated budget but it's worth considering if you're open to buying a used cartridge. As always, YMWV.

good luck,
/mp

DavidS · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Oct 2012, 12:59 am »

I think there is a good chance that either I never had the Jubilee set up right (although not for lack of trying - tail up / tail neutral / tail down, different VTF's, different settings even tubes on my minimax) or it was just a poor match with my gear (maybe the Minimax). The Jubilee had little sparkle, no dynamics when compared to the Denon, it was very accurate and polite.

Have always been curious about the Ven den Hul - will check for reviews. Any thoughts on its match with the Amadeus. Don't want to repeat my Jubilee experiment. Two good recommendations though with the Dynavector and Ven den Hul.

David

coverto · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Oct 2012, 02:22 am »

Quote from: DavidS on 2 Oct 2012, 12:59 am

Have always been curious about the Ven den Hul - will check for reviews. Any thoughts on its match with the Amadeus.

I was recently struck reading an archived Jan. 1, 2004 Michael Fremer article about Bob Ludwig doing the DSD remastering of the Rolling Stones ABKCO catalog:

"The DSD flat transfers were shipped to Bob Ludwig’s Gateway Mastering. Ludwig referenced the transfers to original American and UK pressings on a Well Tempered turntable fitted with what looks like a van Den Hul cartridge driving the Manley Steelhead phono amplifier."

DavidS · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 12:37 am »

I've been thinking more and more about a zu 103 - is any one using this on WTLA? Love tone and dynamics so seems like a match for my system (Heathkit 161, Eastern Electric Minimax and Fostex Frugelhorns).

threadkiller · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 12:41 am »

I've been told it works just fine. Order up!

Gopher · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 01:38 am »

Quote from: threadkiller on 30 Sep 2012, 03:30 am

I agree with your cartridge finding.
I love the Dynavector 20 low or high for $850...not sure how it would go with the minimax, however.

The Dyna 20xL is a wonderful match to the Minimax Phono Pre. I reviewed them together on Audioasylum. I suspect that pairing could be nice, with a caveat--I don't know why but I really disliked the Dyna 20xH on my Well Tempered Reference. Triode Pete here (who actually bought my WTR) tried it independently a year or so after my trial and felt the same way...

threadkiller · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 03:09 am »

All about the phono stage with the 20h.
Crazy talk about it not matching the table.

Gopher · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 02:13 pm »

I thought something was amiss as I constantly heard about dyna being a good mate to the wtr, but I didn't find it to be. Phono stages on gphand were a nighthawk and a vista optimized for the 20xh.

I pretty much dismissed the findings until Pete mentioned feeling the same way in his rig. Ironically he was taking the 20xh off of his well tempered classic to use on the ref....

On a side note he is using the clear audio maestro witth his wtr now and it is an amazing mate to that arm. Had I hit that synergy, I would never have sold him my table, lol.

threadkiller · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 03:35 pm »

Still disagree with your findings.
I do not know, however, the phono stages mentioned. I'm only guessing here, but optimized or not, could still have bad synergy. Just because the loading is set where the cartridge wants it doesn't mean that device will mate well. I don't like the Clearaudio. Bleh!

sts9fan · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Oct 2012, 05:01 pm »

I have a low miles Zu 103 for sale. PM me and I will give you a great price.

Bobbywheat · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Oct 2012, 05:56 pm »

I think there is a good chance that either I never had the Jubilee set up right (although not for lack of trying - tail up / tail neutral / tail down, different VTF's, different settings even tubes on my minimax) or it was just a poor match with my gear (maybe the Minimax). The Jubilee had little sparkle, no dynamics when compared to the Denon, it was very accurate and polite.

Have always been curious about the Ven den Hul - will check for reviews. Any thoughts on its match with the Amadeus. Don't want to repeat my Jubilee experiment. Two good recommendations though with the Dynavector and Ven den Hul.

David

Hi David, I have a jubilee setup on my WTA. I've posted here in the past concerning the WT headshell being to small to mount Ortofon cartridges properly. My jubilee initially sounded ringy on the WTA (it was intolerable), but I managed to fix this by grinding down the screws a little. Since the head shell is to small to reach the 3 lumps on the cartridge , my screws ended up being to long (the head shell is also very thin) and as a consequence it was reaching the end of thread before it was properly tightened. Once properly tightned the Jubilee sounds absolutely wonderful on the well tempered. But again my phono stage has Sowter 8055's which are made for Ortofon specs, so I knew it was not my phonostage.

Hope this helps anyone who might have any problems with ortofon cartridges. I still wish the head shell would be the right size to properly mount an ortofon cartridge, but I can't say it does not sound great.

Regards,
robert

figcon · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Oct 2012, 06:21 pm »

I've used a Miyajima Shilabe, Denon DL 103, Goldring 1042 and a Dynavector Te Kaitora Rua on my GTA and I like the Dynavector the most. All of them sound great.

Plink · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Oct 2012, 02:23 am »

Bobby, why is that the headshell's fault? Use shorter screws. Was this the only problem?

Bobbywheat · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Oct 2012, 04:46 pm »

Hi Plink,

Maybe my explanation was not very clear, English not being my first language I tend to write in long sentences.

The headshell being very small will not reach all 3 lumps on top of the cartridge.

After grinding the screws it made them shorter. So basically I did use shorter screws.

That was the only thing I did, but like I said both my phono stages work very well with the Jubilee. Keep in mind that step-ups are cartridge sensitive. There is to much emphasis on turntable cartridge matching vs phonostage, step-up and cable. I assume its because some audiophiles do not have access to a WT dealer to help them, but budget is probably the other big factor. Excellent turnable + Excellent Cartridge + cheap or improper Wirering + average Phonostage = Disappointing sound.

Regards,
robert

Plink · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Oct 2012, 12:38 am »

Hello Robert,

Ah, I see. There are those three lumps on top of the Jubilee and the WTA headshell is too small.

One thing I have thought is that WT should offer larger headshells but the customer base is probably too small.

Btw, I have always thought that if one is going to spend these sums on hifi equipment, one should take the time to learn the fundamentals. I agree with your equation though personally, I don't worry about cables.

Cheers,

Paul

Bobbywheat · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Oct 2012, 10:19 pm »

I wrote Well Tempered about the head shell being to small for Ortofon cartridges, but no one wrote back. The canadian distributor told me he inserted a piece of plastic to replace the back lumps when he setup 6moons review table. I rather leave it as is than go in that direction.