[SteveFord]

The last three sets of headphones I bought came from HeadRoom.
Adydula is so right in that the spec chart can give you an idea of what to expect but not really what they're going to actually sound like.
I poured over the Beyerdnamic 880/AKG 701 comparison for hours and then gave up and bought both.
They (the 701s) didn't sound like what I was expecting at all and they eventually made their way to eBay.

[grsimmon]

I think the word is out that InnerFidelity is a great resource for many things headphone related.  One of the things I like about Tyll is his honesty;   he has written a few places in there that despite his vast experience,  he still learns new things about headphones,  headphone measurements, etc.  He will readily admit that all in all,  measuring headphones is just damn hard.  The specs can be useful but must be used as a guide, not the final say.  It must be noted too that his specs are NOT the published specs, and I mean this in a good way.  Headphone companies don't usually publish the kind of measurements that he provides. 

[jimdgoulding]

Ahh, subjectivism vs. objectivism.  I gotta say no matter how any component stacks up objectively to whatever the criteria and who signs off on it, it had better strike a chord with me subjectively.  The more I hang around here, the more I become aware of the wisdom of age.  Who do you love because they meet a criteria?  You love what slays you, I mean really love.  What is magical to your senses.

[G Georgopoulos]

To me it's all numbers, the currents, the voltages, the gain, etc,can you ignore them?for the sake of your senses,if you dont have numbers(specs)you have nothing,but in reality every equipment is based on numbers
that's how they exist,the point is numbers are cooked by manufacturers to sell their products,that's why you have equipment with good numbers that dont sound good,by the way hearing first before you buy is a good a
way to go

cheers

[JohnR]

the point is numbers are cooked by manufacturers to sell their products

Well... part of the problem is that a complete characterization of "objective" performance is a. difficult to do, b even more difficult to do repeatedly and accurately, and c. hard or impossible for consumers to understand. So you end up with abbreviated numbers that may or may not be useful.

Another issue, now that I think about it, is that specifications are not the same thing as measured performance. They just give the acceptable bounds. 20 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 3 dB is a specification, not a measurement.

[jimdgoulding]

To me it's all numbers, the currents, the voltages, the gain, etc,can you ignore them?for the sake of your senses,if you dont have numbers(specs)you have nothing,but in reality every equipment is based on numbers
that's how they exist,the point is numbers are cooked by manufacturers to sell their products,that's why you have equipment with good numbers that dont sound good,by the way hearing first before you buy is a good a
way to go

cheers

Jeez, how in the world can it be all about numbers?  By that I mean to your senses, foremost.  What makes you as discerning as you are?  I know it's not experience.  "I Pity The Fool" as Bobby Blue Bland once sang.  Man, it's ALL bout your senses.  If you don't invest the bucks for that reason, why then do you?  Accuracy?  To what?  The live performance?  I would hope so, but I'm not getting that from you.  And it isn't about the notes.

John, objective performance?  You ever get to the US?  My listening room is yours.  If it weren't for subjectivety, we just as well be automatons.

[JohnR]

John, objective performance?  You ever get to the US?  My listening room is yours.  If it weren't for subjectivety, we just as well be automatons.

Not sure I follow you, Jim. I suppose one could just as easily retort that if it weren't for "objectivity", we would still be listening to wax cylinders. Either way, you seem to be trying to make something out of what I said, that just isn't there...

[eclein]

Gentlemen I just want to pop in here and remind all of us to keep this civil.....its very easy to offend people, let try of best not to OK??

[jimdgoulding]

Apologies to all if I seemed cantankerous.  Just feeling it too much, I suppose.  Sorry, Eclein, you felt you had to remind me of my manners.  Shouldn't happen again.  Thank you.  Permit me to finish my last sentence above . . It isn't about the notes, it's about how they are being played.

[eclein]

Jim we're fine I just don't want any of us including myself to be to over amped about this stuff...its all fun remember!!!
 Carry on........have a great Sunday everybody!!!

[adydula]

DITTO...

"Jim we're fine I just don't want any of us including myself to be to over amped about this stuff...its all fun remember!!!
 Carry on........have a great Sunday everybody!!!  "


Happy Sunday!

Alex

[hibuckhobby]

Hmmmm...actually, the fact that regardless of forum, this topic seems to
elicit strong views could be made into an argument for the existence of a
measure of "subjectivity" in all of our decisions.  The only difference is the
criteria we use for measurement.
just sayin'
Hibuck...

[G Georgopoulos]

Hi,I just want to appologise to Jim,because I truely  believe subjectivism has a point too,it kinda hits me sometimes that we are designing for the human ear and that is the supreme critirion,when I think that I too disregard numbers,I try to listen ,I look at the bass mids highs etc... First with a signal generator (for synergy) and after with some good music (for the senses) I like.

cheers
George

[jimdgoulding]

GG, man, you sure don't need to apologize to me, nobody does, but thanks.

[G Georgopoulos]

The last three sets of headphones I bought came from HeadRoom.
Adydula is so right in that the spec chart can give you an idea of what to expect but not really what they're going to actually sound like.
I poured over the Beyerdnamic 880/AKG 701 comparison for hours and then gave up and bought both.
They (the 701s) didn't sound like what I was expecting at all and they eventually made their way to eBay.

Steve if the frequency response graph is ruler flat,that is most wanted,I also bought expensive headphones and was disappointed when i heard them,for me if the graph is flat that's my two cents.

 

[ugribugri]

In one of my introductory engineering classes, we built an op-amp circuit to drive Piezo devices at various frequencies with a function generator.  It was interesting to me that as we swept the frequencies, that some my fellow classmates were extremely bothered by higher frequency noise, while others said they couldn't even hear the output from the piezo disk.  Thus, I have always gone and listened to any system before I have purchased it, because there is no ideal plot that a manufacturer can produce that is tuned specifically to your ear.  I have heard systems that supposedly had near ideal frequency responses that I did not care for, and other systems that didn't measure well that sounded fantastic.  While numbers are very important from a design perspective, from the view of a consumer, I have found it best to try things out for myself.

[eclein]

In one of my introductory engineering classes, we built an op-amp circuit to drive Piezo devices at various frequencies with a function generator.  It was interesting to me that as we swept the frequencies, that some my fellow classmates were extremely bothered by higher frequency noise, while others said they couldn't even hear the output from the piezo disk.  Thus, I have always gone and listened to any system before I have purchased it, because there is no ideal plot that a manufacturer can produce that is tuned specifically to your ear.  I have heard systems that supposedly had near ideal frequency responses that I did not care for, and other systems that didn't measure well that sounded fantastic.  While numbers are very important from a design perspective, from the view of a consumer, I have found it best to try things out for myself.

I couldn't agree more, its amazing what differences in hearing occur between my ex-wife and kids and myself, and how between the four of us changes over time...everybody hears differently thats why I need to try out so many different kind of headphones. I might find the pair for me yet!!!!