[Atlplasma]

Hi folks:

I'd like to pick the circle's collective brain for sound control ideas for a new house that we are currently planning. The house will have a conditioned crawl space and a partial basement. The basement section will have space for a small music-listening room at some point.  Above the basement will be a master suite area and a TV room (among other things). Above this floor will be my office and a guest room.

My wife and I both hate hearing the kinds of noise transmissions that are typical in most homes. Flushing and draining sounds. Foot steps. Extraneous noise from whatever.

We will have lots of hard surfaces and few if any window coverings. It's an aesthetics things. Here are some things I'm considering to address sound throughout the house.

• Using Green Glue joist tape to reduce creaks and squeeks under wood flooring.
• Using Green Glue Silent FX, QuietRock, or similar products in strategic areas to reduce transmission between rooms and floors.
• Using some form of clip and channel system to decouple some rooms and/or ceilings.
• Using cast iron for all drain lines.
• Sealing electrical outlets and concealed lights (also to conserve energy).
  

The house will also be energy sealed to meet the higher end of current conservation standards.

So let me know if you agree or disagree with this approach and feel to blue sky alternative strategies for taming the sound beast.

[gooberdude]

I'm the exact same way, and we're living in good times to be so picky   

You might shop around & ask a lot of questions before pulling the trigger on some of the boutique items you mentioned.  There are insulated wraps for pvc drains to quiet them down substantially & insulated ducts for hvac that work amazingly well, plus a host of quiet bath vent fans & tricks to quiet down items that most people wouldn't consider quieting down.  A good example is mounting your kitchen's stove vent hood motor outside on your roof, or choosing a belt driven garage door opener rather than a chain one.  It can be an endless pursuit but fun.

Its kinda like tweaking a nice sound system, the magic is in the details & sweating the small stuff. 

Its easy to drop a lot of coin with an outfit like soundproofing.com, but you can find comparable products at more mundane construction supply places, like R channel clips & what not.  Often, buying in bulk through them is cheaper too...

Keep us posted on what you find, i'm always interested in the latest & greatest.   And you might search the archives here as well.

I've been lucky with the last 2 places i've owned, both have Passive Solar Gain incorporated into the design.  Aside from saving $ every month on electric bills, my hvac hardly ever runs...keeping the place quiet. 

[Atlplasma]

The more I read, the more it does seem to be another tweaking exercise where there are diminishing returns. It seems to that I will need mass (multiple layers of material) and careful construction to reduce extraneous noise. The PVC based products are not attractive to me since I am trying to build a healthy house, but the Serenity Matt, which is recycled rubber, looks interesting. Ultimately, I think a lot of decisions will come down to budget since ours is pretty tight.

[JLM]

Bigger the room the better.  Try to go with one of the "perfect ratios" for room dimensions (I followed Cardas with good results).

Use lined fiberglass insulated duct for furnace runs (I can't hear my furnace located 20 feet from my listening room).

Easy door solution: insulated/weather sealed exterior fiberglass door (can have wood grain, several panelized looks, and be stained).

Avoid recessed can lights (they may be rated air tight and safe to be in contact with insulation - mine are) as they transmit sound from above like crazy.

I used insulated staggered stud walls even though my listening room adjoins two storage spaces.

There's advice out there to support 5/8 drywall and varying stud spacings (to reduce diaphragm effects).

General construction advice: insulated under the basement slab (only way you'd score a 5 star EPA rating and keeps that floor comfortable).

[Atlplasma]

Thanks for the suggestions. The cardas guidelines for room design and speaker placement are quite interesting. Have you followed his recommendations in your own setup?

[JLM]

Thanks for the suggestions. The cardas guidelines for room design and speaker placement are quite interesting. Have you followed his recommendations in your own setup?

Yes, fully.  Room is 8 x 13 x 22 with nearfield/equalateral setup.  Imaging snaps into place within a foot of the "sweet spot".  My 8 inch single driver speakers (no whizzer cone) beam highs, but allow "aiming".  With transmission line loading bass is deep, fast, and roll-off matches room gain nicely.  Overall little room interaction.  Addition of six GIK 244 panels, no matter how/where I try them, makes little improvement.  I have 3 tall bookcases on side walls to add diffusion and an office setup in the back.  When I first moved in the amount of acoustic isolation was almost spooky (except for those darn recessed can light fixtures and the builder refused to float [clip] the drywall ceiling).

Although Floyd Toole barely believes in "proper ratios".  In his opinion an average (American/Canadian) decor in almost any number of rectangular room proportions is OK.  His big issue is standing bass waves and supports multiple subs at opposite ends of the room to cancel them out.  His other big issue is providing good sound throughout the room (as big of a sweet spot as possible).

[EDS_]

Hi folks:

I'd like to pick the circle's collective brain for sound control ideas for a new house that we are currently planning. The house will have a conditioned crawl space and a partial basement. The basement section will have space for a small music-listening room at some point.  Above the basement will be a master suite area and a TV room (among other things). Above this floor will be my office and a guest room.

My wife and I both hate hearing the kinds of noise transmissions that are typical in most homes. Flushing and draining sounds. Foot steps. Extraneous noise from whatever.

We will have lots of hard surfaces and few if any window coverings. It's an aesthetics things. Here are some things I'm considering to address sound throughout the house.

• Using Green Glue joist tape to reduce creaks and squeeks under wood flooring.
• Using Green Glue Silent FX, QuietRock, or similar products in strategic areas to reduce transmission between rooms and floors.
• Using some form of clip and channel system to decouple some rooms and/or ceilings.
• Using cast iron for all drain lines.
• Sealing electrical outlets and concealed lights (also to conserve energy).
  

The house will also be energy sealed to meet the higher end of current conservation standards.

So let me know if you agree or disagree with this approach and feel to blue sky alternative strategies for taming the sound beast.

I'd spend a good of time investigating iron drains/sewer pipes.

One of my best friends is a plumber with several decades of experience.  This may be geography dependent, however, he is anti-iron v. PVC or PEX because iron simply does not last as long in the ground.  Between some movement and soil composition yielding a dielectric issue iron is very reliable to 20yrs. less reliable to 30 and unreliable after 30.  He replaced the iron sewer pipe running from my house to the street five years ago - it was 33 or 34 years old and looked like it has lost 60/70% of its original mass.  That ordeal set me back $14K.

Iron sewer pipes can act as antenna for power nasties.  An acquaintance, while not an audiophile, is a jazz guitar player.  He bought a new home in Far North Dallas a few years ago and immediately noticed his guitar amps hummed like crazy.  Crap gotta go more later....

[Atlplasma]

Yes, fully.  Room is 8 x 13 x 22 with nearfield/equalateral setup.  Imaging snaps into place within a foot of the "sweet spot".  My 8 inch single driver speakers (no whizzer cone) beam highs, but allow "aiming".  With transmission line loading bass is deep, fast, and roll-off matches room gain nicely.  Overall little room interaction.  Addition of six GIK 244 panels, no matter how/where I try them, makes little improvement.  I have 3 tall bookcases on side walls to add diffusion and an office setup in the back.  When I first moved in the amount of acoustic isolation was almost spooky (except for those darn recessed can light fixtures and the builder refused to float [clip] the drywall ceiling).

Although Floyd Toole barely believes in "proper ratios".  In his opinion an average (American/Canadian) decor in almost any number of rectangular room proportions is OK.  His big issue is standing bass waves and supports multiple subs at opposite ends of the room to cancel them out.  His other big issue is providing good sound throughout the room (as big of a sweet spot as possible).

Thanks again for pointing me to Cardas. I'll have some flexibility in setting up my basement music room, so achieving the suggested proportions shouldn't be a problem. It's interesting that the room treatments didn't improve your listening experience, but I guess that shows the advantage of starting with a "good" room.

[Atlplasma]

I'd spend a good of time investigating iron drains/sewer pipes.

One of my best friends is a plumber with several decades of experience.  This may be geography dependent, however, he is anti-iron v. PVC or PEX because iron simply does not last as long in the ground.  Between some movement and soil composition yielding a dielectric issue iron is very reliable to 20yrs. less reliable to 30 and unreliable after 30.  He replaced the iron sewer pipe running from my house to the street five years ago - it was 33 or 34 years old and looked like it has lost 60/70% of its original mass.  That ordeal set me back $14K.

Iron sewer pipes can act as antenna for power nasties.  An acquaintance, while not an audiophile, is a jazz guitar player.  He bought a new home in Far North Dallas a few years ago and immediately noticed his guitar amps hummed like crazy.  Crap gotta go more later....

Thanks for the advice. I will definitely do more research on the durability of cast iron, but it wouldn't surprise me if ABS or PVC turns out to be longer lasting.

[JLM]

We had to replace 50 yr old cast iron under the basement slab in previous house.  Fortunately home insurance came to the $5000 rescue.  But above grade cast iron (or insulated PVC) should be fine.


Yes, with room acoustics the room is first, IMO sub(s) at the opposite end of the room 2nd, speaker 3rd, treatments 4th, and EQ 5th.  Bass can be addressed via a swam (see audiokinesis circle) or this:

http://www.spatialcomputer.com/page9/page10/page10.html

By speaker I'm thinkiing type (dipole, bipole, sealed, ported, corner loaded horn, etc.), how deep they go (based on room size), and if you have some sort of control over bass output (like powered subs).  At best EQ can only solve problems at a single location.  Each of these steps should be considered foundational for the next.