[charmerci]

There is not a more respected audio person to me than Frank. For years, I've read from him that cables should not affect the way a well designed audio component sounds.

So when I recently ordered a pair of Philharmonic Audio (www.philharmonicaudio.com) speakers, I decided to go all out and order a pair of monoprice premier IC's - a budget breaking $2.50 each! 

So I hooked them up to my system not expecting much. I was wrong. There was a lot more bass and the high end was clearer. Background instruments became more prominent and the soundstage opened up. And I'm just using my Cambridge Soundworks and cheap JBL speakers. Anyone can hear the difference - double-blind or not.

Now I know that talking about cables here often gets the thread into the IG Wastebin and I'm not trying to stir up any controversy on Frank's thread.

So let me give an explanation - years ago in Frank's Audio Basics newsletter, I had read that with speaker cable should not have any breaks in it. I had moved my stereo from a small room to a new place with a much larger listening room. So at the time, I had taken two 10 foot runs of speaker cable and hand-braided them together to make a longer piece. After reading the above, I replaced it with a single 25 foot (or so) run - and sure enough, I noticed a lot more bass.

These are the two cables -






My take on this is that the monoprice cables have gold plating on them and they are a much tighter fit than the throwaway cables which makes for much firmer and binding contacts for the electrons to pass through. (I've always wondered why audiophiles don't solder their IC's and speaker cables to their components more often. That's a rhetorical question, of course.)

The only reason that I am posting this is not to start another cable thread controversy but to inform people like me that those cheap throwaways really shouldn't be used if you're interested in getting the best sound out your stereo.

(Here's hoping this won't be jettisoned to the IGWB!)

[Listens2tubes]

Try these http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3449310 Radio Shack cables. I was told that a manufacturer of very expensive tube gear uses them in his system. I'd like you to compare them to the monoprice.

[earwaxxer]

yep - wire makes a difference! Kind of like the earth is round and not flat. Only someone with absolutely no experience with higher end wire would say that wire makes no difference. Case closed.

[sfox7076]

I don't think the argument is that any old cable will be ok.  There are certain minimum levels that you want to reach.  Those Monoprice cables actually have insulation.  The others don't really.

[cornelius]

I'm not going to say that cables don't make a difference, but I do think there needs to be a verifiable setting to compare products.  A little while ago Frank posted about his latest A/B box for comparing old and new designs - people need this kind of device to overcome our inability to remember how things actually sound.  Also recently Alan Shaw, over at Harbeth, posted some interesting tests that showed how unreliable our long term and short term memory is (sonic and visual tests).  IMO, if someone is going to share a difference in how something sounds, it has to be a quick, level matched A/B comparison.  I'm not saying that differences don't exist, it's just that the differences must be shown in an instant, so the listener can report accurately...  It's just the way our brains work...

[DaveC113]

I've heard Frank say that it is best to reduce capacitance in interconnect cables, which means he probably feels there CAN be differences.

However, as someone who makes all their own cables and have tried out many, many different cables, I DON'T think you'll hear much difference (as far as one being clearly superior) between 2 cables made with decent materials and similar capacitance values. And the differences you do hear are IMO, variations that are different, but subjectively one could prefer either one, depending on personal preferences and the system they are used in.

I have tried out 2 ICs in 2 different systems, one on the warm side and one on the bright side, and we ended up preferring different ICs depending on the system, both of us having the same preferences. So... when people say one IC is "better" than another, this means absolutely nothing because of differences in systems and personal preferences.

Basically, if you use high purity copper wire and connectors with a low capacitance geometry, it's going to be difficult to come out with a bad IC, and chances are it'll be better than most low to mid price IC cables.

Also, there is the shielding issue... if you need it a shielded IC will be a big improvement, if you don't it will be a slight downgrade as the shielding increases capacitance somewhat.

[DaveC113]

I'm not going to say that cables don't make a difference, but I do think there needs to be a verifiable setting to compare products.  A little while ago Frank posted about his latest A/B box for comparing old and new designs - people need this kind of device to overcome our inability to remember how things actually sound.  Also recently Alan Shaw, over at Harbeth, posted some interesting tests that showed how unreliable our long term and short term memory is (sonic and visual tests).  IMO, if someone is going to share a difference in how something sounds, it has to be a quick, level matched A/B comparison.  I'm not saying that differences don't exist, it's just that the differences must be shown in an instant, so the listener can report accurately...  It's just the way our brains work...

I agree if the difference is slight. I'd guess the difference the OP posted about does not require A/B testing to be sure of his conclusions. Some things are large enough differences it's very obvious, but IME most are not and the A/B box would be a big help there. I've relegated most slight differences to the "I don't care enough to mess with it" category...

[bregez]

I have had hum and RFI issues with those cheap 6'-long interconnects in the past.  I think it was a shielding issue.  I like to make my own interconnects now as you can tailor the length for each application.  As far as connectors, those Switchcraft RCA's grab on tight and are constructed well.

Brad

[kc8apf]

I recently used one of the thow-away 6' ICs temporarily between the DAC and amp in my office setup.  I knew right away something was _very_ wrong.  I took some measurements with REW and found out the IC was causing sharp roll-off around 100Hz.  Swapping it for a Monster IC I had lying around fixed the problem.  This was a truly bad cable but it does show that cables _can_ have an impact.

[Guy 13]

Hi all Audio Circle members.

Since the age of 20 (That’s 45 years ago) I bought and made for myself all kind of audio equipment.
(Speakers, amplifier, interconnects and speaker cables…)

About six months ago, I decided to make some IC from parts found at the electronic market, here in Vietnam.
(Of course, all Made in China stuff.)
I tried to buy the better items according to the construction quality.

I’ve put together with my good old Weller 100/140watts soldering gun the bullets, I made about 20+ pairs of IC and speaker cables of different length, but never longer than 30” for the IC and no more than 10’ for the speaker cables.

I wanted to see how they would compete with some Signal Cable IC and speaker cables that I bought from them.
Some ICs are OFC and some ICs are Silver.

Well, I could not hear the difference between my own ICs and speaker cables and the Signal Cable ICs and speaker cables.

I don’t mean there was no difference; I just could not hear any difference with my 64 years old ears.

The total cost of the ICs I made myself (Less labor) was 25USD per pair,
the Signal Cable ICs were 36USD/pair/24” long. (Plus custom tax and transport)

The Signal Cable speaker cables were 44.50USD/pair/10’. (Plus custom tax and transport)

The speaker cable I made were 36 USD/pair/10’
I agree that there’s not a big price difference, but still.

Some manufacturers have much more expensive ICs and cables,
but I still believe that the higher difference in price is not proportional to the higher quality.

Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against audiophiles to will pay 500USD for a pair of ICs or speaker cables,
that their money and if they can hear a difference in sound quality, then good for them.

The following below is a copy/paste I found somewhere on Audio Circle, I hope I wont be sued for that.
   
An audiophile is someone who can hear differences among various components, cables, etc.
even when there aren't any.

So many audiophiles are concern with connectors and power cords and all the fancy tweaks,
when these at best, are pale in comparison to the effect of room acoustics

Guy 13

[DaveC113]

Well, I could not hear the difference between my own ICs and speaker cables and the Signal Cable ICs and speaker cables.

I don’t mean there was no difference; I just could not hear any difference with my 64 years old ears.

About 5-6 years ago I switched from a Tripath amp to a SET amp, and I noticed that speaker cables made much less of a difference with the SET amp. With my current system the differences are slight and I have been surprised how similar completely different cables have sounded. So I think a lot of it must depend on the amp, at least in the case of speaker cables.

With ICs I have been able to figure out how to voice them to the warm side or to the bright side. They make a little more difference vs. speaker cables, but again I'd suspect the differences depend on the output section of the source as well. I think with my new DAC the differences in ICs are diminished.

I would also suspect that AVA gear doesn't change sound character much depending on the cables used compared to a lot of gear. Probably a good thing, really...

[charmerci]

Try these http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3449310 Radio Shack cables. I was told that a manufacturer of very expensive tube gear uses them in his system. I'd like you to compare them to the monoprice.

OMG! They're 3 times the price of monoprice cables! 

Sure, I'll try them when I get my new speakers.

[charmerci]

I'm not going to say that cables don't make a difference, but I do think there needs to be a verifiable setting to compare products.  A little while ago Frank posted about his latest A/B box for comparing old and new designs - people need this kind of device to overcome our inability to remember how things actually sound.  Also recently Alan Shaw, over at Harbeth, posted some interesting tests that showed how unreliable our long term and short term memory is (sonic and visual tests).  IMO, if someone is going to share a difference in how something sounds, it has to be a quick, level matched A/B comparison.  I'm not saying that differences don't exist, it's just that the differences must be shown in an instant, so the listener can report accurately...  It's just the way our brains work...

I have spent the last 30+ years assuming that cables don't make a difference in sound so there was absolutely zero expectations that it was going to change the sound. I've changed many a component or part of my stereos where I thought that I might have heard a difference and wasn't so sure and at that point, I wouldn't say to anyone that there really were any differences - e.g. saying Onkyo, Sony, Kenwood, etc. there's no really any sound differences between them.

But in this case, it was very, very instantly clear that there were sound changes that I hadn't heard in the last few months of living in my new place.