[Sampsa]

I'm looking to treat my listening room and would like your help. Sonically, what bothers me about the room is the lack of any bass below 80 Hz (the speakers roll off around 50 Hz) and the harshness in the treble.  Brass instruments sound harsh, voices have pronounced “s” sounds, and violins sound a bit too pronounced when playing high notes.

My system consists of:

1) Musical Fidelity A3 CD
   - sitting on BDR Mk 3 cones, two points up, one point down
   - Schaffner 2080 filter added to clean up AC
   - PS caps changed to Nichicons
   - op-amps changed to either 2132, 2604, or 2107 (will decide soon)
   - output caps changed to Black Gates
   - a few sorbothane pieces around the chassis and transport
   - Blu Tack on crystal

2) Musical Fidelity A300 integrated (150 Wpc @ 8 Ohms, 260 Wpc @ 4 Ohms)
    - PS caps changed to Nichicons
    - op-amp in phonostage changed to either 2132, 2604, or 2107

3) Magnepan MG12QR speakers (1' 7" from the wall, 4' 6" apart)
    - custom stands that make them upright
    - crossovers redone with parts from Sonic Craft (Axon and Sonicaps caps, Alpha-Core inductors, Cardas binding posts)
    - made bi-ampable/-wireable

4) AudioGenesis silver interconnects and speaker cables (bi-wired)

5) VH Audio Flavor 1 (CDP) and Flavor 2 (amp) power cords

6) Pass & Seymour 5262AW (cryo'd) wall outlet

7) Target rack (filled) with spikes


The mods to the components have reduced the harshness dramatically, in addition to other improvements, but it still hurts my years to listen to the brass in Bruckner's symphonies. (Most of the mods to the CD player and amp are currently being done and might change.)

System plans:

- will add a turntable within the next 3-4 months, probably a used Rega P25 or VPI Scout

- will possibly add a tuner, universal player, and/or subwoofer


Musical preference:

- 97% classical, especially orchestral and choral with some instrumental
- 2% jazz
- 1% electronica


The walls are all drywall. The ceiling is also and is 9' high. The floors are very bouncy hardwood. (I can hear when and where the upstairs neighbor is walking and the downstairs neighbor has complained about my walking too loudly.) The building is about 100 years old. The doorway has no door and opens to a long hallway with three doors and one doorway. The wooden door is usually open and leads to a bedroom. The low bookshelf is about 3' 6" tall and has a 2' tall plant on top of it. The plant in front of the bookshelf is standing on top of an Ikea Lack table. Together they're about 4' tall. The other bookshelf is 5' tall. Both bookshelves are wooden. The couch and chair are both fabric. The plant behind the couch is about 5' tall. The curtains are very light. There's a rug on the floor and a painting on the wall between the speakers.

Here is a diagram of the room and pictures of the room, the hallway, and the bedroom.

Let me know if other information or pictures are needed. I'd like to start cheap, fixing the high-freq issue first, and then add more later. The listening position is on the couch, in front of the plant, where there's a pressure mark.

[8thnerve]

There are a few things that can be done to resolve your situation.  First, in my experience with Magnepans, they'll need to be significantly further into the room in order to achieve the bass you are looking for.  I would start at 3 feet from the back wall minimum.  I would also move them further apart from each other a bit.  Experiment with distance from rear wall to get the bass levels you want.

It looks like they also need to be toed in a bit more, almost directly to the listening area.  That will help with sibilance, tone and mostly soundstage.

Silver cables are also not known for their forgiving qualities.

From a room acoustics perspective, you'll need at least a roompack to tame the sibilance, and harsh treble.  RealTraps from Ethan or Fiberglass panels will also work to good effect.  What you need is acoustic treatment that is reflective on the front.  Otherwise, especially with the Maggies which are very dependant on the room interaction, you'll lose that sparkle and incredible soundstage that the Maggie's give you.  You'll need to treat all the corners, ceiling corners and floor to ceiling corners at a minimum.  Horizontal ceiling corners will benefit tremendously from treatment as well.

[Sampsa]

Thanks for the advice! Interestingly, I moved the speakers closer to the wall and toed them out to reduce the high-freq emphasis. So a roompack would do the trick?

[Carlman]

In my experience with lively, hardwood rooms, a roompack will help.  However, the room will still be lively, and you will still get latent echoes from the hallway congesting the high frequencies.  You will need to either treat the corners of the hallway or find a way to place a door in the doorway.  I promise that a door there will help both bass and highs... and imaging... you can't lose on that one.

The other passageway needs to be blocked as well.  I'd suggest an oriental room divider.

Another thing to consider is a larger, thicker rug.  Or at least a rug more surface area.  Possibly put a pad under the rug.  However, if the current rug is a 5x8, you'll need an 8x10 at least.

If you block those 2 doorways, get a bigger rug/pad, and add a roompack, I think that will solve all your room problems. (except the messiness   )  Then, you will need to experiment with speaker placement again.

Hope this helps.

[Sampsa]

Hmmm... So I should get one room pack and some extra to treat also the hallway? Putting a door there is out of the question, unfortunately.

So I should keep the bedroom door closed? Putting foam or a pad under the carpet might be doable. What about foam behind the painting (I might be getting another one)?

The listening room is not that messy, is it? The bedroom does need some work though...  

[Carlman]

Hmmm... So I should get one room pack and some extra to treat also the hallway? Putting a door there is out of the question, unfortunately.  So I should keep the bedroom door closed?

Yes and yes.  However, If you could get any kind of divider between the room and that hallway, you will be adding bass and removing latent reflections from re-entering.

You can experiment right away with what closing the bedroom door will do.  It should improve bass a bit as well.  I didn't know it already had a door!  So, yes, use it.. it's free!

Upon more thought, the rug pad will probably only help a tiny bit, I'd save up for a bigger rug and pad.

Foam behind your print is a good idea.  I'd do it.

Messy is relative.  As a bachelor, no, it's not.  As a guy married to a neat freak, yes.  

[Sampsa]

Thanks again! What kind stuff should I put in the hallway? Do I still need that if I get the divider?

A thicker rug is both esthetically and medically out of the question (I'm allergic to dust).

[Carlman]

Thanks again! What kind stuff should I put in the hallway? Do I still need that if I get the divider?

A thicker rug is both esthetically and medically out of the question (I'm allergic to dust).

8th's Corners would be great in the hall if you don't do a divider.  However, if you get a relatively opaque divider, you probably wouldn't need anything in the hall.

I used the linked divider with foam inserted into the back panels.  It worked very well for me in a similar situation.  

I understand allergies.  So, try a pad under that rug... if nothing else, it might provide a tiny bit more sound proofing for neighbors.

[Sampsa]

Thanks again! So just to sum up:

1) Get a roompack for the listening room.
2) Get either a divider or corners for the hallway.
3) Get a foam pad to put behind the painting.
4) Close bedroom door.
5) Maybe get a foam pad under the rug.

Would that do the trick of both taming the harshness and extending the bass?

[Carlman]

Yes...  but to what degree your harshness will be tamed is still unknown.  Will it be enough?  It's a bit trial and error with this kind of thing.  Without getting into acoustical science, this is the best I can recommend.  If you want absolutes, you'll need to read more on acoustics, materials, theories, etc.  If you find a theory that makes sense to you, go with it and see if the results are what you want.  

Basically, the list you have now is based on the research of 1 guy.. albeit one that's been through a similar experience... there's a LOT more information out there that will help you fine-tune your room.  However, the list you have is a great start... and may be enough.  

Check out the Acoustic's circle as well.  It's chock-full of this stuff... this thread should really be there at this point but, at least you're buying a roompack.  I think Bill Laurent is in NY... maybe he could swing by and help you get the room tuned as well... Just a thought... Ask when you call to order.  

I'm not in business with 8th Nerve... (although I wouldn't mind;) ) I'm just a happy customer.

-C

[Sampsa]

Thanks once more! The problem is that acoustics seems much more an art that science. I've read a few papers and many posts - they all seem to advocate different approaches.

So I've kind of resigned to asking experts... Maybe I'll put the whole post also on Acoustics Circle...

[lonewolfny42]

Hey Carl,

Why not give him a link to the pictures of what you did in your room ? You put a lot of work into it ! [/list:u]

[Carlman]

I had to take the pictures down because I needed room on that server... I'll put them back after this weekend, though.