[Wayner]

From http://www.finishing.com/97/55.shtml

I'm just sayin'.............

It's a shitty platting because those 2 elements are very dissimilar and there will be eddy currents that will destroy the bond. Any claims that it wont are full of shit.

Wayner

[Letitroll98]

Should we be surprised that the reviewer picked the most expensive as "the best?" Through headphones no less. 

I'm sorry, I'd should have been more specific.  I didn't mean it to be read as the definitive guide to power cables, I thought it was interesting to read one guy's exhaustive opinion on the hospital grade/Jellyfish, and a couple of other C&C power cords, in context with some more expensive offerings.  I agree that at the top end it sure did look like price correlated with perceived SQ a little too closely, I did little more than scan those parts of the post.  I thought he had more to offer in the mid to lower line products which was more in line with the thread and our circle. 

+1, curious minds want to know. I have always assumed sight bias, power of suggestion, etc.

I agree that I'm still waiting for an explanation that makes complete sense to me, but two things are convincing me of the reality of this, sight and sound.  Not only is my audio system enhanced, but my video display also improves with better power cords.  And it's not always the most expensive that works best and it's not always an improvement with aftermarket cords.  But the fact that something always changes in one direction or another has more validity than it always gets better the more money I spend.  Something outside of the range of standard LCR theory is occurring.  Everyone must judge for themselves whether this is psychology, quantum, or advanced electrical.

It's a shitty platting because those 2 elements are very dissimilar and there will be eddy currents that will destroy the bond. Any claims that it wont are full of shit.

Wayner

Tsk, tsk, Wayner!  Language, please!   And I think most of the posters on the link provided agreed with you, with one dissenter.  So I'm unsure of the source of your outrage. 

[saisunil]

Folks - I'd be happy to start a tour of a few power chords - if you guys would like to hear them in your system or perhaps bunch of us can pool our favorite cords ... my favorite is CRL (old FIM) and can't be sent as it is very stiff and takes time and patience to bend ...

I have a couple of flexible ones too ...

Some systems may not be resolving enough and some may not be able to hear it and some components may not be sensitive to PC change ...

What is it? I do not know but most of these tweaks as I have learnt from Paul at TRL is about dropping the noise floor ...

Try it before you dismiss it ... no PCs are not for everyone and may not make a difference in every component ...

For me PCs performance is what happens when I remove it from my system ... it is a lot different from tube rolling where you hear the change in tone and frequency response, character etc.

Danny of GR-Research did a tour of what Caps can do ... hear it for yourself ...
It is perfectly ok if we do not hear it or do not want to hear the difference or like or want it ... let's just have fun - it is hobby after all -at least let's enjoy this aspect of our lives 

There is so much we do not know and cannot explain ... it does not replace good engineering though!

[gregcss]

I recently completed outfitting my system with Pangea AC-14 power cords...on all my gear.

Do you use the AC-14 on your amp as well? Looking at the 14SE or 9 for my receiver.

[corndog71]

Shunyata has some pretty good ideas why they work.  The 2 main factors they've noticed were voltage drop and current delivery being measured in each AC pulse.  ... I think.  I might've forgotten some details.  Crappy cords restrict current and drop more voltage in that split second. 

In a way the power cord acts as a filter which is why it still works in the last few feet before entering a device.  Geometry of the wire is a factor as well and Shunyata also uses braided wires because they reduce the effects of RFI/EMI.

[mca]

I'm getting very good results with a couple of Cullen power cables that I purchased for my new Carver Cherry monos.

[FullRangeMan]

I had an idea for a power cord based on designs by Kimber and Shunyata using a run of Kimber 4VS and 8VS speaker cables.

I basically expanded the 8VS braid so I could slide the 4VS cable through the center. 

4VS (all 8 wires) = ground
8VS (8-Hot, 8-Neutral)

9awg for each leg.

I got the cheap WattGate AC and IEC connectors.

Total cost= $140

Works well!

Great!
I also made my power cords with speaker cables, as QED Silver Anniversary and Supra 10(10mm + 10mm).
Both cables had two poles only, the ground pole is much useless in most homes as a new ground earth instalment not last many time, due corrosion, so I dont use the 3th conductor.

[Elizabeth]

I just swapped several primary powercords from Pangea AC9, to new Pangea AC9SE.
I put the first four meter Pangea AC9SE (replacing a 3 meter Pangea AC9)  in from wall to a Furman REF20i power conditioner, ((Prior i swapped the Furman 20amp IEC to a Furutech high quality 15 amp style with 10 gauge wire fittings capable of handling 20amps.. So any who mention the Furman HAS a 20 gauge IEC, not mine... anymore)) and a second from that conditioner to my Bryston 4B-SST2 amp. Replacing a 4 meter AC9 to a new AC9SE
I also added a new AC9SE to my VAC Standard tube preamp in place of the AC9 that was there.
In my playing around i think I will buy one more AC9SE for the Furman to Bryston BP-26 preamp.
I use all Pangea AC14SE on my other sources which have IEC connectors.
(This month Audio Advisor has a $50 rebate for Pangea AC9SE only, the rebate requires you send them some kind of IEC ended cord, can be junk cords or any OE type of cheap cord. So far i got $150 back for the three i bought this month.)

I really can say my system sounds better just from replacing three pangea AC9 with Pangea AC9SE powercords. (since three are four meters, and one a two meter, the cost is $1050. with a $200 rebate)
Well worth IMO what i got in increased resolution, and better frequency response, and better bass. Way more natural sound from my Magnepan 3.6s
I am VERY HAPPY with this upgrade all around the system sounds magical now.
And I would say anyone with a Furman Powerfactor power conditioner MUST try a Pangea AC9SE (at least two meters long or longer) on the Furman.
Though the PS Audio regenerator I have did not benefit in any useful way.
The biggest bang for the buck was the amazing improvement sticking the AC9SE onto the Furman REF20i power conditioner. Though I tried it on my other conditioner, a PS Audio P600 and that did not prove positive at all, so put back the Pangea AC9 which was already there.

I have not tried a lot of other brandes.. I was pretty skeptical of power cords, and then bought a cheap Pangea to try it and for the first time right off heard a difference on my amp (at that time a Forte' 4a amplifier)
That got me started on Pangea. And since I have been very happy with the results, I have never needed any other cords.
(though I had a Zu Birth powercord, and it sits unwanted in my closet.)

[DaveC113]

Shunyata has some pretty good ideas why they work.  The 2 main factors they've noticed were voltage drop and current delivery being measured in each AC pulse.  ... I think.  I might've forgotten some details.  Crappy cords restrict current and drop more voltage in that split second. 

In a way the power cord acts as a filter which is why it still works in the last few feet before entering a device.  Geometry of the wire is a factor as well and Shunyata also uses braided wires because they reduce the effects of RFI/EMI.

I agree.

Also, the quality of the connectors is a big deal... nickle plating is bad, and hospital grade receptacles are popular because they have a very strong grip on the plug.

I am currently testing 2 PCs that are identical with the exception of wire geometry, one is a litz braid, one is a star quad. Both should be good for rejecting noise, and the star quad should have lower inductance and higher capacitance vs. the litz braid.

[Elizabeth]

DaveC113 try wrapping your cords with plumbers teflon tape.
It will tighten the geometry, and make it much more uniform.
I like some blue teflon from Australia (from Menards) as it is thicker and stronger, but not more expensive.
I wrapped some star quad 12 ga. wire for several projects. about 80 feet of it...!!!

[wushuliu]

Unplated copper plugs=win. I like the cheap ones on ebay with Vhaudio wire.

[Photon46]

You can't plate gold onto copper. It will not stick. Copper has to be first plated with nickle, then plated with the gold.

Wayner

Not so according to my rudimentary research. If you Google "direct gold plating over copper" you find numerous sources that say the problem with direct plating over copper is that the copper diffuses through the gold layer and the gold diffuses into the copper. You end up with a blended surface layer that oxidizes and this defeats the purpose of gold plating. There are companies that advertise they do direct gold plating over copper. I've also heard that is not quite an accurate description of what they are doing as they are actually using a gold/cobalt alloy to avoid the diffusion problem.

[Speedskater]

In any case, gold plating is excellent for low voltage, low current contacts.  But gold plating will not support high current connections!  If you ever plug in a power amp that is accidentally switched on, you will blow the gold plating off the power plug.

[eclein]

Guys hey I'm not stumping for Pangea even though I like the stuff and the cost is reasonable. My favorite all time IC's and Power cords are the Wywires stuff Alex had me test. The only reason I don't have all my power stuff done up with them is cost, I don't have a ton of cash for the hobby and I wasn't going to ask my friend for like 3 free ones. I currently use the "Juice" on my Pre-amp/DAC and Pangea's everywhere else.

 The Pangea caught my eye one day while reading through an Audio Adviser catalog-totally price motivated and someone in the Virtue circle told me to try one in my Piano CD player so I did and heard a difference so I just kept going.

  I use one on my amp, its a Virtue TWO.2 with a separate power supply brick (cinder block-LOL) so one goes there. My CD player gets one (Piano M1) and my DAC that I recently got from Zepp uses one. The Squeezebox uses a custom power supply Wayne at Bolder made for me. 

 I just wanted to be clear as someone thought I was unhappy with the Wywires.    Not a chance, the IC's and Juice improved my sound remarkably. Enjoy the Music!!!!!

[maxima95]

In the power cord shootout referred to on the first page, the reviewer says that the best cord should go on the source.  If one uses a power conditioner, my experience is that the best cord should be on the conditioner (for the same reasons the reviewer says it should be on the source i.e. ... downstream components ...).  I have found this to be true, particularly if the cord is beefier; sometimes those do not sound as good on sources.

In the end, I guess you have to try them in various locations and see what you get.

[jarcher]

Sorry for the long-winded post:

As of early last year I would laugh at people who spent money on power cables & flip past that section in the ol Audio Advisor catalog.  Then in visiting a local dealer for the first time to try out a DAC, he flipped through a few different power cables & I was just amazed.  With me was a friend who's an audiophile & musician & whose ears I respect as a "touchstone" to see if he's hearing the same things or whether I'm imagining things.  He heard it as well & the same areas of improvement.

I still don't totally understand why the difference / improvement.  You'd think that everything on either end of that power cable is likely to be inferior (i.e. cabling in wall / socket / tiny thin wires in components / etc).  So why should the wire in between help?  On the other hand, all audio electronics to some degree seem to be about passing along electricity from one end to another, so why shouldn't the power cable make a difference? That's my admittedly low science IQ take.

Here's some verbiage on the Wireworld website, which you're welcome to take as all marketing w/ a grain of salt.  But to me it makes sense:

The performance of audio and video components is often degraded by the noise present on the power line.

This noise comes from radio transmitters, electric motors, fluorescent lighting, dimmer switches, digital power supplies and numerous other sources.

WireWorld's Noise Filtering Array™ power cords are designed to solve a completely different set of problems than audio and video cables. An ideal audio or video cable would pass the entire frequency range without alteration. However, an ideal power cord would pass only the 50Hz or 60Hz AC power, while blocking all other frequencies, thus preventing power line noise and harmonics from degrading the sound and imaging quality of the system.

I really do think at least their cables not only don't choke your power supply, but because of the geometry (i.e. NFA) actually perform some line filtration.  So the result being tighter & better bass & "cleaner" sound.  This I have heard consistently with the Wireworld power cables.  I have heard some of those effects to a lesser degree on a cheapo (relatively) audioquest power cable.

Don't know if they qualify as "cheap and cheerful", but the ones I always use (Wireworld Aurora 5) are about $100 for the 1M I think.  I use them on just about everything now, from amps to dacs - even performed surgery on a Panasonic Plasma to get it to work. On the latter still need to do more A/B, but could swear the image looks better with it.

As for sound improvements, these seem definite - sometimes more I think than interconnects - and for less money. Even the before mentioned audioquest was useful - AQ15 which go for $50 from HCM Audio.  They aren't made by Audioquest - HCM seems to make them using wattgate connectors & audioquest wire in between.

So at the risk of sound evangelical, I've definitely become a "power quality" convert. I even notice I've got more bass and better sound quality after midnight in summers when people aren't drawing on the power line as much.  Become a real "lunatic".  Also even changed power receptacles in my house to audio grade ones for my gear & put in +20amp dedicated power lines to the breaker panel as well.  All that helped - but the biggest help was the humble power cord.

Sucks that this is yet another expense / tax on getting any gear, but there you have it.  Don't think spending more than $100 or $200 on a power cable is merited, even the wireworld site admits that all their PCs are the same w/ the exception of the conductor material.  And just because a more expensive conductor material is used doesn't mean it subjectively sounds better.  But I do think getting a better power cord of any sort is merited.

[jarcher]

I really can say my system sounds better just from replacing three pangea AC9 with Pangea AC9SE powercords. (since three are four meters, and one a two meter, the cost is $1050. with a $200 rebate)
Well worth IMO what i got in increased resolution, and better frequency response, and better bass. Way more natural sound from my Magnepan 3.6s
I am VERY HAPPY with this upgrade all around the system sounds magical now.
And I would say anyone with a Furman Powerfactor power conditioner MUST try a Pangea AC9SE (at least two meters long or longer) on the Furman.
Though the PS Audio regenerator I have did not benefit in any useful way.
The biggest bang for the buck was the amazing improvement sticking the AC9SE onto the Furman REF20i power conditioner. Though I tried it on my other conditioner, a PS Audio P600 and that did not prove positive at all, so put back the Pangea AC9 which was already there.

I have not tried a lot of other brandes.. I was pretty skeptical of power cords, and then bought a cheap Pangea to try it and for the first time right off heard a difference on my amp (at that time a Forte' 4a amplifier)
That got me started on Pangea. And since I have been very happy with the results, I have never needed any other cords.
(though I had a Zu Birth powercord, and it sits unwanted in my closet.)

I think the difference you're hearing w/ the Pangea SE vs non-SE is the Japanese Pure Ohno Continuous Casting (OCC) copper, which is not used in their lower end power cables as it costs a lot more (as 5N pure copper should). 

This stuff is miracle copper in my opinion and I use it always everywhere I can, from speaker cables to interconnects.  It's some smooth smooth stuff.  Maybe not the best for subwoofer cable. 

I've only tried a few different brands of power cable, but would have to say the Wireworld Aurora 5 at list $130 a meter (more like $100 "real" price), is the best bargain.  WW also has a pure OCC power cable, but retail is $234 for 1M, and I think that's too much more vs the Aurora 5, and too much in general for a power cable. 

The Cable Co online has just about every brand of cable, and I think they have a generous return policy (30 days for any reason 100% credit for another purchase).  They also run a "lending library" for up to two weeks at a time.  I haven't bought / borrowed anything from there yet, but do plan to.

Oh - and for some more improvement w/ the Pangea's you have, I would recommend connecting those power cords for any high current amp directly to the wall - not through the Furman.  I also have a Furman power conditioner, and despite "power factor" and etc technologies, I don't want anything to choke my power supply.  Just give it a try....I think you'll like the results.

[brooklyn]

I dont see the Shunyata Venom 3 mentioned to much. Does anyone here like this reasonably priced power cord or is the Pangea the way to go?

I recently bought two Bel Canto REF500M amps and need two power cords, I'm using the stock ones at the moment, the Bel Canto's are D class amps.

 

[jarcher]

I'd trust anything from Shunyata, and starting at $170 retail, those Venom 3 don't look too bad.

I've also tried Gut Wire B16 starting at $99 & found it was pretty decent / neutral power cable.  Good for front end electronic's such as DACs, and doesn't have monster hospital size connectors, which is also aesthetically good for smaller components.

Ultimately I ended up preferring Wire World Aurora 5 at the $100 price I was getting them at, particularly for power amps as it toned up the bass, but for a source component I would definitely be ok w/ the Gut Wire B16.

To me the Acoustic Zen El Nino starting at $170 retail seems interesting - thought that's about as high end as I would be willing to go w/ power cables.  AZ seems to prefer something they call "zero crystal" long grain unextruded continuos-cast wire that sounds suspiciously like Ohno Crystal Cast.  I've got some Acoustic Zen 7 interconnects & think they sound good & look / feel well made.

If anyone's ever used the AZ El Nino or Shunyata Venom 3, would be interested to hear their impressions.

[TimS]

Nice braiding - do you have a link for step by step instructions on the braiding technique?
Thanks

I had an idea for a power cord based on designs by Kimber and Shunyata using a run of Kimber 4VS and 8VS speaker cables.

I basically expanded the 8VS braid so I could slide the 4VS cable through the center. 

4VS (all 8 wires) = ground
8VS (8-Hot, 8-Neutral)

9awg for each leg.

I got the cheap WattGate AC and IEC connectors.

Total cost= $140

Works well!