RM30M-6.5M upgrade

James Romeyn · « **on:** 3 Jun 2004, 08:14 pm »

6/3/04

RM30M-6.5M The 6.5M upgrade MSRP is $380pr ($280pr in the sticky is a missprint). The new 6.5M is Woven Carbon Fiber, the 6.5S (standard) has a plain smooth diaphragm.

I heard the above speakers at Brian’s on 6/2. The last version heard in this venue was the RM30M-6.5S (standard 6.5s).

For reference, Brian rates the f3 of the RM40 at 24Hz, the RM30M-6.5S at 32Hz.

Except for the deeper & more powerful bass, I preferred the RM30-6.5S to the RM40 w/spiral tweeters. Though hard to pinpoint or describe, something about the RM30’s quasi-linesource was preferred over the RM40s symmetrical array. The 30s had what I can only describe as a more natural presentation. I apologize I can’t be more specific. Certainly the RM40 has excellent imaging & staging, but I prefer the 30. The 30s micro & macro dynamics had the most speed & biggest jump factor I'd heard. It seemed beter than the RM40 in that regard. In the crossover range between the bass & mids the 30 was faster, more natural & musical. The 30 employs dual 6.5s up to 280Hz, the RM40 dual 10s up to 166Hz. Though the 30 has 1/4 less mids, they are crossed ¾ octave higher. The 30s disappearing act exceeded the 40s, probably a result of its smaller size & ultra-narrow front baffle (8” vs. 12”).

The one area persons used to RM40 & RM2 performance might want ever so slighlty improved in the RM30-6.5S is bass power & cutoff. Even though the 30 & 40 share the same low-bass 10MW, the 40s cabinet is larger. (Brian added a 215 sub to the three RM30s at CES ’04.)

Enter the RM30M-6.5M. All prior considerations about the RM30s bass are put to rest. Even without a sub I would recommend the RM30M-6.5M to virtually anyone. Brian’s room is large, about 3500 cubic feet, & the bass power & cutoff were satisfying driven by the fantastic little Ampzilla Son Of Ampzilla Stereo amp (low-$3k range MSRP). I’d subjectively rate the f3 of the RM30M-6.5M about midway between the RM30-6.5S & RM40, meaning about 28Hz or maybe lower.

The RM30M-6.5M bass quality was simply the best I’ve heard in reproduced sound. It was musical, super smooth, detailed, & portrayed that kind of sensual foundation & feel that string bass instruments have in person, with less artifacts than I’ve ever heard before.

My 2c worth. YMMV. I am very interested to read the posts of owners/users now receiving the RM30M-6.5M.

Sorry, but the new 6.5” MW use a different frame vs. the standard 6.5s. This means the front cabinet baffle must be routed out to hold the new MW. Users will have to either ship their speakers back to VMPS or inquire with Brian if/how the routing can be performed in the field. I believe both capacitor banks (mid-treble) must be swapped out for new values. Round-trip UPS ground + insurance is about $280pr for east & south USA, slightly less closer. The bases must be removed & not shipped.

drtweak · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Jun 2004, 06:12 am »

Hi Jim,

Thank you for your educational post on the updates to the RM30. I received the new RM30M-6.5M for review a couple of weeks ago and must admit that my preliminary impressions agree with your own.

I find the RM30 to be a very uncolored speaker from the lower midrange through the highest treble. And I am hearing strong, articulate bass that does not beg for a subwoofer at all. On some material, the bass almost seems too strong, but I'm still in the tweaking phase and hope to fine tune the response a bit further. I still need to experiment with tuning the passive radiators and possibly with optimizing speaker placement.

I was very taken with the RM30's presentation of a Dave Matthews live acoustic concert (the 2-cd set). Man, can those ribbons do guitar or what?! I was likewise impressed, or perhaps more accurately "pressed" into my listening seat by the awesome bass on Alicia Keys' first CD. I was surprised that the dynamic contrasts on Key's album appeared to exceed that of my highly efficient Klipsch Chorus. Just when I thought the level had maxed out, the backing vocalists reached for yet another plateau, delivering it cleanly and LOUDLY. I was impressed!

I have owned some of the best speakers on the market including the Audio Physic Virgo IIs and the InnerSound Eros Mk-II and my opinion is that the RM30 may be less colored and more natural sounding. It also sounds faster and has the ability to startle the listener by virtue of its instantaneous snap and slam. Retrieval of fine detail and rendering of dynamic contrasts is truly outstanding. As good as the Eros and the AP Virgos are, the RM30 may be overall the best speaker of the lot, and that's a bold statement -- although it is somewhat premature.

This is my preliminary impression and I still have a lot more listening and evaluating to do. I intend to try the RM30s with some different associated gear to develop a more complete picture of their capabilities. My gut feeling is that I may have found my new reference loudspeaker. Time and lots of listening will tell.

Rory B. · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 Jun 2004, 04:59 am »

The thing that I like best about the VMPS speakers and which will influence my purchasing decisions in the future is how the VMPS speakers can become any speaker you want them to be. The adjustable bass damping lets you pick your ideal bass sound quality, while the L-pads in the crossovers allow you to adjust the frequency balance as much or as little as you desire until things sound the way you want them to. I would venture that no other designer lets you have this much control over their speakers' sound as Brian does with his VMPS speakers.

Frank,
When can we expect to read this review?

drtweak · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 Jun 2004, 06:59 am »

Rory,

Thanks for your comments. I also like the L-pads for adjusting the midrange and tweeter output levels. I suppose some detractors would say that they limit transparency to some small degree, but given the levels of speed, resolution and focus I'm hearing I would think it likely that they help more than they hurt. I would have been very grateful for some way to adjust the treble output of the InnerSound Eros. It was difficult to get just the right balance by substituting different cables and electronics.

I'm not really that comfortable with the way the PR damping is adjusted, but I will try it and see how the bass changes. It seems a tad primitive, but from what I'm reading it appears to be effective.

My best guesstimate on finishing the review would be about two months from now, but I can certainly post a note to this forum when it is published. Thank you for your interest!

James Romeyn · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Jun 2004, 02:13 pm »

Professional reviews describe how one part of the bass sounds __________, another range had __________tonal character, & so forth. Likewise, reviews describe a foible in the mid-treble or a minute lower midrange coloration, etc.

I believe it is "primitive" that end users are stuck with whatever compromises the designer engineered into the system. I've read the criticisms about the coloration added by the L-pads. I'd find it more frustrating to own a speaker benefitting from a teensy bit of attenuation in the treble range, & that attenuation required a change in components, cables, room position, acoustic damping, etc. In use I think the VMPS adjustabilty is purely a necessity & beneficial.

The RM30 has limitations. In a perfect enviornment with perfect components they could be found & explored. The variable "Q" of the VMPS bass damping can not correct for every room mode, but it can minimize one or more. The Q & L-pads can be adjusted differently for each channel to help compensate for room irregularities. It can & does take some time to make the adjustments. But so does changing amplifiers to increase the magic in the amp-speaker interface.

I recommend to customers in my setup document, among other things: first thing upon receipt of the speakers, label (arbitrarily) all passive radiator-equipped speakers with a number or letter on a small self-adhesive label, on the rear panel near the bottom. Then label seperate envelopes with a matching identifier. All putty removed for each speaker goes into its matching envelope, with a piece of paper folded around the tiny bit of putty to secure it. At any time thereafter it is a quick & easy chore to return the system to its OEM setting & start the process over of removing bits of putty to tune it. Kind of like the OEM shock & suspension settings for your racebike. This too may sound primitive, but it does add order to what I affectionately call "putty chaos".

It's our job to drive Brian nuts with suggestions, so here's another one: each PR-equipped speaker receives a small identification symbol (letter or number, Brian's choice) at the Plant, & a matching envelope with the VMPS logo. Some might think it better just to identify the speaker by its serial number stamped on the "nomenclature", but the S/N is small & difficult to read. Plus many of my customers receive the speaker with the largish & somewhat homely looking nomenclature loose in the shipping carton vs. glued to the rear panel. This is something to consider, especially if the rear of the cabinet is visible or might be in a future re-positioning of your system.

jermmd · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Jun 2004, 02:46 pm »

Question:
When removing putty from PR's, do you remove the same amount from each PR? Do you remove a small amount from the front, then the back, then the front, then the back, etc.? Is each speaker tuned independently or is the same amount of putty removed from each speaker after perfection is achieved on one?

Joe M.

Rory B. · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 Jun 2004, 03:10 pm »

Supposedly, the rearmost PR of the RM30 is the one that is tunable. The front one is not. Apparently it works.

Marbles · « **Reply #7 on:** 10 Jun 2004, 03:12 pm »

Quote from: Rory B.

Supposedly, the rearmost PR of the RM30 is the one that is tunable. The front one is not. Apparently it works.

The one closest to the opening has the putty on it, at least in my case.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 Jun 2004, 03:28 pm »

Quote from: jermmd

Question:
When removing putty from PR's, do you remove the same amount from each PR?

Brian says to alter both. That requires two envelopes, one labeled "front" the other "rear".

Do you remove a small amount from the front, then the back, then the front, then the back, etc.?

See above.

Is each speaker tuned independently or is the same amount of putty removed from each speaker after perfection is achieved on one?

I don't want to give away every tip in my setup document normally reserved for customers. But generally, in Brian's LEDE room, at CES, & delivery/setups I accompanied him on, Brian goes back & forth from one channel to the other making putty adjustments. He listens carefully to the adjustment on one speaker. If we are going in the correct direction (in other words the sound improves), the same adjustment is made to the other channel.

The person who knows Brian's putty adjustment routine is named Mrs. Cheney. She works hard helping out the mad professor when she has the time.

The putty changes might be different between channels depending on different boundary effects.

Joe M.

jermmd · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Jun 2004, 03:46 pm »

So this is the correct procedure:
you remove a small amount from the front, then the back, then the front, then the back, etc..

Thanks,

Joe M.

Rory B. · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Jun 2004, 04:18 pm »

Only one of the PR's in each speaker has putty on it. I guess it is the front one (nearest the slot opening), not the back one. If you try to adjust the mass of the rear PR, you will be disappointed to find that there is no putty there, just a former cap or whatever Brian uses in the middle of the PR. The routine is that you go between each speaker and make the adjustment, not each PR.

I can just imagine how hard it is to adjust putty when there are two floorstanders and two subwoofers to deal with.

jermmd · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Jun 2004, 07:32 pm »

Both PR's in each of my RM30's has putty. Definitely.

Joe M.

Marbles · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Jun 2004, 07:41 pm »

Quote from: jermmd

Both PR's in each of my RM30's has putty. Definitely.

Joe M.

It should be noted my RM30 is an RM30C (horizontal). I wonder if this is the reason it only got putty on one PR?

jermmd · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Jun 2004, 08:27 pm »

I have two RM30M's and a RM30C. They all have putty on both PR's.

Joe M.

jermmd · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 12:30 pm »

So is this the correct procedure:
you remove a small amount from the front, then the back, then the front, then the back, etc., listening for change at each step?

James Romeyn · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 03:24 pm »

Marbles, on my RM30C I removed the PRs & sealed the holes to minimize my 30Hz mode. I am looking at the two PRs now on my counter. Both have putty. Theoretically, one could get similar results if all the mass was added to one PR, but that would increase its excursion & potentially decrease power handling.

Yes, you should remove putty from only one PR at a time. But if the sound is improving, you should alternate to another channel, then if you return to make another adjustment to the original speaker, switch to the other PR on that speaker. PR putty removed goes into an envelope labeled just for that PR on that speaker.

It really is not so hard with multiple speakers each requiring PR tuning. I hate to make absolutely public all my trade secrets, so PM me if you need help.

Marbles · « **Reply #16 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 03:29 pm »

Damn, I'll check again, but I would have sworn only the close one had putty. Kind of tight getting my arm back to the second one and I suppose I could have missed it.

A little removal (half a pea..about a good bugger size

) was all mine took.

I like to play with the XO a bit, going from full range up to 80 hz, currently set at 50HZ, so I think I will leave the PR's in.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #17 on:** 11 Jun 2004, 04:10 pm »

Replies in italics inserted below.

Quote from: Marbles

Damn, I'll check again, but I would have sworn only the close one had putty. Kind of tight getting my arm back to the second one and I suppose I could have missed it.

You missed it unless Brian cheated on yours! The PRs are labeled & staring right at me about 12" away on my counter.

A little removal (half a pea..about a good bugger size ) was all mine took.

Marbles you kill me. I'm a big guy, & my boogers are likely much bigger boogers than your boogers, so I think we need a more linear measurement device.

I like to play with the XO a bit, going from full range up to 80 hz, currently set at 50HZ, so I think I will leave the PR's in.

Some playing is OK, but don't play with it tooooo much or it might prematurely age

Rory B. · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Jun 2004, 01:36 am »

@drtweak:

So, when do you think we'll be able to read this review? I'd love to be able to talk it up over at the Home Theater Forum where I get the feeling people are still hesitant to give VMPS a fair shake for home theater.