[TONEPUB]

Hi,
 I took a somewhat educated guess and lucked out on the combo,thanks.
 In response to TONEPUB's comment about lower expectations for budget systems I
 have to respectfully disagree.
 I use the same set of critical evaluations when I listen to any system,so the fact that 
 it sounds as good as it does is ,to my thinking,is indicative of a synergistic pairing
 that just happens to be cost friendly.It's so good that my previous set-up, which was
 a Leben CSX300 and Galante Symphonies is not missed.
  Best
p.s.
      It really shines on the usual:vocals,jazz but also trance and some well
      recorded rock...Led Zep,Stones etc.


 

You're making a bit of a leap...

Just because I have lower expectations for budget components, it doesn't mean I listen
to them any less critically.  But I don't expect a $500 pair of speakers to sound like a $100,000 pair.

And so far, none of the $4-600 speakers I've heard come close, but I have heard some fantastic
speakers in that range.  The three that come to mind recently are the Silverline Minuets, the
Magnepan MMG's and the DefTech SM45's.  All three, though very different in presentation sound
way better than I'd expect a speaker at this low price.

If anything, I often spend more time looking for system synergy with budget components,
because there are often magic combinations that sound way better than they should.

[Gopher]

I definitely know what you are saying, David.  I think you hit the nail on the head regarding price and expectations.

Leaving the combination of my Audion Premiere preamp and Decware Torii 3 in favor of a $2k Melody integrated and finding greater musical satisfaction there at 1/3 the cost (more like 1/4 when you factor in ICs and a PC) really epitomized that in my recent history.

Its far more pleasant to set the bar low and be surprised than high and disappointed. 

[Early B.]

Price is not an indicator of the satisfaction we derive from listening to our audio systems. In fact, sound quality is not always the first consideration. For instance, when my favorite song comes on the $60 radio in my car, I enjoy it just as much as popping in a CD of the same song into my reference system.   

Same is true with other things like food, for example. You may enjoy a Big Mac and large order of fries just as much as you enjoy a meal from a fancy restaurant where you spend $200 per plate. Sure, you could argue that the fancy dinner was more nutritious, it was more aesthetically appealing, the customer service was better, etc., but at the end of the day, both meals will end up in the toilet.

Many audiophiles delude themselves into thinking that it's all about the music. It isn't. It's about constantly striving to take your system to the next level, and that's the thrill we seek. We get bored quickly. Our wonderful sounding systems can always be improved. That's why we're constantly trying new gear, buying and selling, modding and tweaking. The music -- well, that's just the rationale we give ourselves to justify the next upgrade. 

[DaveC113]

Price is not an indicator of the satisfaction we derive from listening to our audio systems. In fact, sound quality is not always the first consideration. For instance, when my favorite song comes on the $60 radio in my car, I enjoy it just as much as popping in a CD of the same song into my reference system.   

Same is true with other things like food, for example. You may enjoy a Big Mac and large order of fries just as much as you enjoy a meal from a fancy restaurant where you spend $200 per plate. Sure, you could argue that the fancy dinner was more nutritious, it was more aesthetically appealing, the customer service was better, etc., but at the end of the day, both meals will end up in the toilet.

Many audiophiles delude themselves into thinking that it's all about the music. It isn't. It's about constantly striving to take your system to the next level, and that's the thrill we seek. We get bored quickly. Our wonderful sounding systems can always be improved. That's why we're constantly trying new gear, buying and selling, modding and tweaking. The music -- well, that's just the rationale we give ourselves to justify the next upgrade.

lol, $60 radio? Did you buy that in 1985? For me, the difference is a $60 radio is ok for background listening where I'm doing something else like driving... I have a Subaru with the stock sound system, and it's pretty bad but I don't care enough to upgrade. If I had my car system in my living room I wouldn't turn it on very much and certainly wouldn't be interested in just listening to music while relaxing on the couch.

Also, I think for most people the music and the system go hand-in-hand, and there is a full range of addictive consumer behavior in any hobby. But, where that line lies is a personal decision and I don't judge anyone for getting caught up in the gear, the design and construction of which is also a hobby for many people, myself included. So, I think audio can fulfill a wide range of activity... buying, selling, listening, designing, building.

[OzarkTom]

Many audiophiles delude themselves into thinking that it's all about the music. It isn't. It's about constantly striving to take your system to the next level, and that's the thrill we seek. We get bored quickly. Our wonderful sounding systems can always be improved. That's why we're constantly trying new gear, buying and selling, modding and tweaking. The music -- well, that's just the rationale we give ourselves to justify the next upgrade.

I have my current system now tuned perfectly for the music. I could take this  system to my grave and never need more.

[Early B.]

lol, $60 radio? Did you buy that in 1985?

I bought a $60 unit off ebay to replace the stock Bose unit in an old Mercedes. The Bose sounded absolutely dreadful. 

[Letitroll98]

Obviously, synergy is key with  audio systems and there isn't necessarily a clear correlation between price and performance but lately I have been enamored with some inexpensive (relatively speaking) components in my system leaving some very expensive things collecting dust. From simply a performance perspective, the higher priced equipment may be "better" but I have a tendency to be more unforgiving of it because of it's price. My attitude is more of amazement of my lower priced gear that it can provide so much satisfaction at a fraction of the price. I am much more tolerant of the inexpensive equipment's imperfections and I mentally relax much more easily and simply enjoy music.
   For me, I am coming to the conclusion that achieving perfection is impossible and finding equipment that offers off the charts value seems to provide me more ultimate happiness (not to mention a whole lot more money to purchase music with)...Am I crazy?
David

I'm not sure if you're crazy or not, but I think we have a circle somewhere devoted to this topic.  I'll do a site search and report back later if I come up with anything.   

"Obviously, synergy is key"  You can't put together an expensive or C&C system with any less care and expect good results.  The one big advantage to C&C systems is the freedom of multiple pieces to experiment with, cheaper to buy and/or/therefore you have a bunch of stuff lying around to play with and see what sounds good, synergy is easier to obtain.   

[morganc]

I have my current system now tuned perfectly for the music. I could take this  system to my grave and never need more.

Tell us about your system Tom    Can you list your components and your music preferences?

Btw: I'm loving a $300 Decware Zen that I just picked up from DeadFish and it is an amazing value

[cujobob]

Inexpensive systems are often put in poor rooms which is one reason why our main systems sound better, but the advantage to budget systems is often in size. Large speakers can create more room issues sometimes (depending on design) so speakers that don't go as low or that can be angled better for the listening position could have an advantage.
There are also plenty of good DIY speakers one can build on the cheap...anything from GR Research to Econowaves, there are multi thousand dollar speakers that dont compare.
Price and complexity can be a good thing but sometimes keeping it simple just works.

[JohnR]

I'm not sure if you're crazy or not, but I think we have a circle somewhere devoted to this topic.  I'll do a site search and report back later if I come up with anything.   

You funny!

And that's the "thrill of the chase," isn't it? Nobody says that a complete system with a total cost of no more than $1000 is going to tick all the boxes... but it's still interesting to explore how many you can tick...

It feels to me like this is one of those "thinking outside the box" things.

[JLM]

After 40 years at this, currently owning 3 systems, and being level headed (somewhat thrifty) about audio I agree with this premise. 

Saving $$ is very satisfying, but so is build quality, and for me supporting the national cottage industry as well as the SOTA.  All these attributes can be found here at AC.   

As mentioned the room, complexity, and extra bass that are normally associated with more $$ are all negatives, but I'd add "excessive detail" (all the current ribbon tweeter rage comes to mind) which takes away (distracts) from musicality (impressive, but too much candy for me).

[reddmadder]

TONEPUB,
 Fair enough BUT maybe our expectations are the problem or stumbling block in audio as well as in life.
 I think some high end manufacturers validate their obscene prices based on the created expectation through advertising that you'll get what you pay for.
That isn't always the case on both ends of the spectrum...high & low.
 

 
[/quote]

[DaveC113]

I'm not sure if you're crazy or not, but I think we have a circle somewhere devoted to this topic.  I'll do a site search and report back later if I come up with anything.   

Yes, but I think $1k for a complete system is a bit low.... I spend ~$3k and I think that is very cheap compared to many systems.  The reason I think $1k is too low, is because a "cheap and cheerful" system doesn't run out of value for the money until you hit closer to $5k, after than I think the value for the money tends to go down.

[ltr317]

Yes, but I think $1k for a complete system is a bit low.... I spend ~$3k and I think that is very cheap compared to many systems.  The reason I think $1k is too low, is because a "cheap and cheerful" system doesn't run out of value for the money until you hit closer to $5k, after than I think the value for the money tends to go down.

Yes, I agree but the $5K should be the new retailed total price, not used. 

[JohnR]

No no 

$1k.

Otherwise there's no challenge. It just becomes boring old "value for money."

[jtwrace]

No no 

$1k.

Otherwise there's no challenge. It just becomes boring old "value for money."

Sounds like a good challenge to AC manufacturers....

[JohnR]

No, it's a challenge for the individual. To explore the possibilities.

[ltr317]

Oops, I forgot this is the C and C circle.  I have own several and have heard many other $1K or less systems and while some of them have sounded good, none have given me more satisfaction than a synergistic system that cost several thousands.  I have tried many times to duplicate that sound for $1K or $2K for my bedroom system over the years and have never approached it.  It would be quite a challenge for anyone to achieve that goal.  Good luck. 

[Cheeseboy]

The Circle we are looking for is the "You Don't Have To Be Crazy to be Here at Audio Circle, We Can Teach You That" 

Can we all agree that there is a sliding monitary scale of what defines Cheap and Cheerful?  There are just too many variables in individual expectations to lock it down to one price for a system that defines C&C. 

C&C is an audio lifestyle.

[Rclark]

The funny thing is, to most people, $1000 for a stereo is an astronomical, ludicrous amount of money. It was my limit when I started, and most people would never spend that much.