[lesmarshall]

I am pretty sure that  my vinyl LP collection  originally  released  in the 60s and early to mid 70s was  recorded on analogue recording equipment , but I am not sure about  LPs from the late 70s and 80s and beyond . Is there anyway to tell for sure whether a particular LP was recorded on digital equipment and then converted  to analogue in connection with the mastering of the LP? Typically there is no such information on the LP jacket or sleeve but occasionally there are hints . What  date  did recording studios generally  begin using  digital recording equipment? 

Also, does  an LP mastered from a digital recording, generally sound better  than a CD mastered from such recording? Does such  vinyl contain a higher definition of  information than the CD?

[Ericus Rex]

If they recording was also released on CD the back of the cd jacket might list if the master is digital or not (ADD vs. DDD).  This seems to be standard with classical music but not used as consistently with other genres.

[NIGHTFALL1970]

In 1987 I bought a new LP of Black Sabbath "The Eternal Idol".  On the back it says:"A Digital recording".  This was the first time I noticed this.
I think some of the early to mid 80's RUSH were recorded in digital.  Do an A/B comparison between "Moving Pictures" and "Signals" from LP to the early CDs and the LPs blow them away in sound quality.

[Wayner]

One clue for analog recordings may be the presence of tape bleed-through at the beginning of each song. Digital will not have this effect.
(As tape is recorded, the strength of the magnetic field on the tape can influence the material on the next layer of tape. This is heard as a pre-echo just before the music starts).

We also know that the master for vinyl and CD are not the same. We also know that most CDs have compression, to make them sound louder and be compatible with all music playback systems. Vinyl is restricted (slightly) in dynamic range due to the nature of the medium, and is also processes thru the RIAA bass reduction/recovery system. All vinyl must go thru this process at mastering (otherwise, the untreated bass content would actually knock the stylus out of the groove, the phono preamp with it's own built in "reverse" RIAA circuit (much like the Dolby process) restores the bass to the level on the original recording).

Many records that I have, like Dire Straights - Brothers in Arms or Jon Anderson's Short Stories proclaim the origins of the vinyl material to be from the digial domain.

While I've heard some excellent all analog recordings, there are digital gems from the 80s that certainly are very musical.

I believe some the first recordings to show up on vinyl that were of the digital nature where in the early '80s, perhaps becoming common in 1983. If someone has a more definitive time frame, please correct me, but I'm pretty sure the time frame is close.

Personally, I don't care if the original recording was made one way or another. On the other hand, how does MOFI do half speed masters from digital recordings?

Wayner

[munosmario]

Wayner, your estimate is pretty close. FYI a quote from a web page on the history of Telarc:

"The first recordings under the Telarc banner were not digital, but rather modern-day direct-to-disc recordings made with The Cleveland Orchestra and with organist Michael Murray. With these singular projects in place, Renner and Woods pursued the budding technology of Tom Stockham's Soundstream, Inc. in Salt Lake City, Utah. In 1978, they decided to take the first of many risks that are characteristic of Telarc's history, in order to stay on the cutting edge of recorded sound technology, by making the first commercial classical recordings in the U.S. in the digital format."

The quote refers to "first commercial classical recording"...aside Soundstream's own development trials, it is possible  that there was some obscure non-classical commercial pressing prior to it but not that much earlier.

munosmario

[neobop]

Only slightly obscure, Denon aka Nippon Columbia, made digital recordings way back in the '60s. The first was released in 1971. These were also PCM.

Wayner is right though. Major labels didn't use digital recording till the early to mid '80s. 

I have some '80s records made from digital recordings.  Wynton Marsalis and others on Columbia, come to mind, although there were more.  IMO the records sound better than the CDs, but this could be that CD players at that time, basically sucked, or some labels early efforts tended to be overly bright/harsh.  On the other hand, Brothers in Arms is a great recording, a go-to as a demo record or CD.  It took awhile for recording techs to adapt to digital. They were used to some tape saturation, which is a no-no in digital recording.

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

(1) Is there anyway to tell for sure whether a particular LP was recorded on digital equipment and then converted  to analogue in connection with the mastering of the LP? Typically there is no such information on the LP jacket or sleeve but occasionally there are hints .

(2) Also, does  an LP mastered from a digital recording, generally sound better  than a CD mastered from such recording? Does such  vinyl contain a higher definition of  information than the CD?

(1) ALL digitally mastered LPs get "digitally mastered" label on the front & back of the jacket. I got 12 LPs "digitally mastered" from Telarc label (which sounds the best, IME) to DGG & Angel.

(2) All digitally mastered classical music LPs I own SOUND better than CD though CD is technically superior to LP.

c-J

[Wayner]

So then food cooked on my Weber grill tastes better then food cooked in my micro-wave oven. But the micro-wave is technically superior.

 

[munosmario]

Only slightly obscure, Denon aka Nippon Columbia, made digital recordings way back in the '60s. The first was released in 1971. These were also PCM.

Wayner is right though. Major labels didn't use digital recording till the early to mid '80s. 

I have some '80s records made from digital recordings.  Wynton Marsalis and others on Columbia, come to mind, although there were more.  IMO the records sound better than the CDs, but this could be that CD players at that time, basically sucked, or some labels early efforts tended to be overly bright/harsh.  On the other hand, Brothers in Arms is a great recording, a go-to as a demo record or CD.  It took awhile for recording techs to adapt to digital. They were used to some tape saturation, which is a no-no in digital recording.

Thanks, neobop. You are right, however, when I said "obscure" I specifically referred to "pressings" not the label. Denon actually pressed two LPs in 1971, limited release mostly as prototypes showcasing their early PCM digital recording hardware, which they improved along the rest of the 70's with some more pressings as a result...but, basically, to no one's serious acclaim, thus, drifting into obscurity (SQ marred by insufficient sample rate and bit word lenght). It was Telarc's demands on Soundstream to increase sample rate and bit lenght that set the bar and really launched the PCM mastering format of LPS as a commercial viable endeavor. In fact, you reminded me, I may still have (stored in an "obscure" room ) some of those Denon pressings (limited Japanese editions, that I bought when I was living in Japan about that time). In contrast, my entire collection of early Telarc digitally-mastered LP pressings are stored upfront, in "clear light", ready for a spin .

Cheers,
munosmario

[Toni Rambold]

This is an interesting article from the AES website:
(release dates on page 14)

The Dawn of Commercial Digital Recording

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

This is an interesting article from the AES website:
(release dates on page 14)

The Dawn of Commercial Digital Recording

This is the EXACT Lp I got: Frederick Fennell conducting the Cleveland Symphony Winds. Yes, the music sounds so powerful, particualarly one the second last & last soundtracks of the first side of the LP:- "Handel - Music for the Roayl Fireworks.

It sounds so powerful & so slappy that makes my CD & DVD-audio music shame.. Surprised to learn from yr link of the AES paper that it was done on 50KHz 16bit PCM format (back in 1978) vs my DVD-audio music done on 24bit 192KHz format.

Don't get me wrong I don't have any mega bucked gear, only a vintage Thorens 125II TT & my DIY one-stage phonostage. Dirt cheap.

c-J

[simoon]

In the early days of digital recording, none of the record labels would have been shy about advertising the fact that it was a digital recording. I have some of the earliest digital Angel, Nonesuch and others, and they all have 'Digital recording' quite prominently displayed on the cover.

I believe that Stevie Wonder's 'The Secret Life of Plants' is considered the first pop/rock album recorded digitally.

The second from 1979 (the first Canadian digital recording) is an obscure recording of a Canadian prog-rock band called 'True Myth'. For such an obscure band, it certainly did get a big budget release from Warner brothers, with gate-fold sleeve, several detailed inserts and such.

If you're a fan of prog, it's worth seeking out. It touches on AOR from time to time, but overall, it is pretty high quality prog with top notch musicianship and great melodies. It was recorded live in the studio on a 2 track Soundstream machine. The live in the studio recording gives it a real exciting, visceral feel.

[jawaka]

In 1979, the first digitally recorded album of popular music Bop 'Til You Drop by guitarist Ry Cooder is released by Warner Bros. Records. The album was recorded in Los Angeles on a 32-track digital machine built by the 3M corporation.

[Scottdazzle]

So then food cooked on my Weber grill tastes better then food cooked in my micro-wave oven. But the micro-wave is technically superior.

 

+1. Amen, brother! Long live vinyl.

[lesmarshall]

In 1979, the first digitally recorded album of popular music Bop 'Til You Drop by guitarist Ry Cooder is released by Warner Bros. Records. The album was recorded in Los Angeles on a 32-track digital machine built by the 3M corporation.

Yep, I recently bought this Ry  Cooder  LP  at a used record store. Some great songs on this LP.  Sounds great on some cuts-- others sound too CD like--harshness in the upper mids and highs-boosted bass; still lots  better sounding  than a  CD , but IMHO  these digitally recorded , vinyl mastered LPs can't compare to a good analog recording . Try listening to an original  analog pressing of Neil Young's  "After the Gold Rush" or "Harvest", purely magical analog/vinyls. No comparison with a  digitally  recorded vinyl pressing .

[simoon]

In 1979, the first digitally recorded album of popular music Bop 'Til You Drop by guitarist Ry Cooder is released by Warner Bros. Records. The album was recorded in Los Angeles on a 32-track digital machine built by the 3M corporation.

Yep.

'The Secret Life of Plants' was released 3 months later, closely followed by the True Myth album.

I still hold that, from a sound quality perspective, the True Myth is the best of the 3 due to the live in the studio recording. No overdubs.

[TheChairGuy]

In 1979, the first digitally recorded album of popular music Bop 'Til You Drop by guitarist Ry Cooder is released by Warner Bros. Records. The album was recorded in Los Angeles on a 32-track digital machine built by the 3M corporation.

Yup.

I was a sophomore in high school and working at our High School station, WKWZ FM in Syosset, NY. http://www.wkwz.org/

I remember the album coming in from the record company with great fanfare as it was the first 'digital' recording.  A few of us unwrapped it and took in into the back studios to listen to it.

The music was alright, but we were neither blown away or repulsed by the audio quality as I remember it.  They were studio turntables back in the day and heavy-nosed conical styli (for scratching and/or cueing up records) so I don't know how critical we could've been offhand.

I do remember a few of us remarking that it's abnormally quiet.  And, that was that, back to business (and classes) we went.

[lesmarshall]

  I grew up in the 60s and 70s where the music I loved was recorded on  analog equipment and mastered for vinyl.  Fortunately,  there is  an abundant supply of original vinyl  pressings of this music , which I have been stocking up on at used record stores. Unfortunately , new vinyl releases of current  artists are recorded digitally,  and just don't sound as good as  analog recordings, so from an audiophile perspective, I am  limited to playing music from an earlier time . Frankly, I rather not listen to the new stuff  on my audiophile system,  and am limited to playing CDs and iPods in my auto.
 

[geowak]

If you have a very big magnifying glass (about the size of a medium pizza) and you move it close over a CD, you will see ZEROs and ONEs in the grooves. That means it's digital.

hehe

[lesmarshall]

If you have a very big magnifying glass (about the size of a medium pizza) and you move it close over a CD, you will see ZEROs and ONEs in the grooves. That means it's digital.

hehe

Don't give up your day job