VMPS RM/X review

ScottMayo · « **Reply #20 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 03:14 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen

Supposedly, Brian doesn't release anechoic chamber type graphs because they're only good if you have the exact same chamber. If you don't, it's impossible to get the same response. As an engineer, I like them, but I don't think they really tell you much.

They tell you some. Especially, that the manufacturer went to the trouble to air his laundry, both dirty and clean. No one with the wit to read a frequency graph is going to believe it's anything less than an ideal; but if the ideal, best case graph has a dip at 80Hz and dives to negative infinity at 23Hz, that tells you useful stuff. Sure, in your room, you'll get different numbers, but at least you know what you're starting with. Nothing you do will fix that dive at 23Hz, and fixing the 80Hz dip is probably going to cost you something somewhere else. It's nice to know these things.

It's especially nice when auditions go badly. I'm pretty good at closing my eyes and sorting sounds out in general, but for the life of me I'm not sure if I heard a room or a speaker this weekend. I know I heard one of the best darn midrange (certainly from 300Hz and up) speakers I've ever met, comparable with a speaker 3+ times the price. But I have no idea what was going on from 128Hz and down.

I know that there are plenty of manufacturers who will say, Screw The Numbers, we're selling to humans with ears, not plotters with ink pens. And there's something to that. But keep in mind, that's also what Bose does. Anyone here think Bose plays nice? In the end, publishing numbers is about Respecting Your Customers. Bose doesn't have to respect customers - they've got a marketing machine to take care of that kind of crap, instead. VMPS doesn't, for which I imagine a lot of people here are quite thankful. So bring on the numbers, I say.

All IMHO, for sufficiently low values of Humble.

sbcgroup1 · « **Reply #21 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 03:16 pm »

---bump--

message misposted....sorry....

ctviggen · « **Reply #22 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 04:02 pm »

Scott, I kinda like looking at graphs, being that I'm a former electrical engineer, but I really do question what they do for you. When I was helping my friend search for new speakers (I bought his old Linns), we looked at a ton of graphs, but the speaker he bought wasn't the best in that department. And, some of the best "graph" speakers were some of the worst sounding.

Ed, I highly recommend a sub. Much of the stuff in movies is low frequency, like 20 Hz or so. Any speaker would have a hard time reproducing it. I use my sole sub only for movies, but there's a huge difference even running my mains (which have a 3db point, in an anechoic chamber, of 30Hz -- and this points out how chambers aren't great, as my speakers don't go near 30Hz in my room, as they're too far from the wall) at 80Hz and full range while playing music. What I did was run some test DVDs with the sub on and the speakers crossed over then full range (both with sub on), and there's quite a bit of difference. The one with the speakers crossed over at 80 Hz sounded much better. You can try this yourself.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #23 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 05:08 pm »

It occurs to me we can change the RMX bass system to have more warmth and more closely resemble RM40 bass which everyone seems to love.

This is accomplished by using the more compliant suspension on the vitrified cone PR (here 12") for slightly higher Q. I have made up a pair of RMX in this configuration and initial impressions are very favorable.

We will make this change available to any RMX owner free of charge. All he would do is swap out PR's and retune.

The RMX, because of its very heavy construction and lack of resonances, can sound a little dry in the bass. I like it that way but I think I also like it warmer.

ScottMayo · « **Reply #24 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 07:59 pm »

Quote from: Brian Cheney

It occurs to me we can change the RMX bass system to have more warmth and more closely resemble RM40 bass which everyone seems to love....We will make this change available to any RMX owner free of charge. All he would do is swap out PR's and retune.

Now *that* is something I probably couldn't get from B&W.

jgubman · « **Reply #25 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 10:03 pm »

No kidding...

Brian, don't you know that you're supposed to have obsoleted your current product line and introduced the "mkII" versions...

Now featuring vitrified PR technology!

Andrikos · « **Reply #26 on:** 2 Jun 2004, 10:59 pm »

That is indeed GREAT customer service.
Kudos Big B!

James Romeyn · « **Reply #27 on:** 3 Jun 2004, 08:40 pm »

Quote from: Brian Cheney

I am not familiar with the Spectron but with the Ampzillas (A2000 on bass, SonofA on the mid/treble) the RM/X perform splendidly in my large (14x31) treated room, including thunderous bass. That's with 200W/ch on the bass, 100W/ch on the mid/treble.

I had the Specron III & A2k here for about a year. I had not listened to any music for a few weeks when I plugged in the III. I thought it might be competitive with the A2k. Then I plugged in the A2k & the show was over. The A2k was way better overall. In the mid-treble, much more musical, natural, greater ease, better image, stage, etc etc. Treble especially absolutely no contest. Funny thing was the same difference occurred in the bass, including lower cutoff. Even greater apparent power & bigger dynamic swings on the A2k, even though rated 30% less power. This was the best proof I could imagine how midleading power ratings can be.

Roop is a great guy. This is meant solely for informational purposes & is only my opinion, but I would never personally demo the RMX with that particular amp. I'd get something better, & I think it would not necessarily need to cost much more. That new 100W Ampzilla stereo would be great on the ribbons with Brian's recommended QSC on the bass-WOW!

Regarding Dire Straits: Brian played one their old songs when I first heard the RM30s. I was shocked at so many background effects fading in & out, sounds I never imagined were on the disc. It was like walking into the recording studio & hearing the master tape vs. a cassette copy. Amazing.

ted_b · « **Reply #28 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 08:46 pm »

Quote from: Brian Cheney

It occurs to me we can change the RMX bass system to have more warmth and more closely resemble RM40 bass which everyone seems to love.

This is accomplished by using the more compliant suspension on the vitrified cone PR (here 12") for slightly higher Q. I have made up a pair of RMX in this configuration and initial impressions are very favorable.

We will make this change available to any RMX owner free of charge. All he would do is swap out PR's and retune.

The RMX, because of its very heavy con ...

Brian,
I'd like my RM/X's to be a bit warmer, and although biamping is one way to improve/change the sound (currently single amp Krell KSA-100), I'd also like to go the route of your free exchange of pr's. Is the exchanged pr simply a "elmer'd vitrified one" (meaning I could do it at home via the instructions in the free tweak thread) or is it a different cone altogether, with different characteristics? In other words, I'm wondering what your "more compliant suspension" means. Thanks; this offer is another example of why I am proud to be a 17 yr VMPS owner

Ted_B

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #29 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 10:09 pm »

The high compliance vitrified 12" PR's for the RM/X have a different suspension. Email me your name and address and will send you a couple of the new ones.

zybar · « **Reply #30 on:** 4 Jun 2004, 10:30 pm »

Brian,

Any plans on having a different PR for the 40's?

George

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #31 on:** 5 Jun 2004, 12:09 am »

The stock PR in the RM40 is high compliance. Once you have treated the cone front-and-back with Elmers it will be as good as it can get.

zybar · « **Reply #32 on:** 5 Jun 2004, 12:45 am »

Thanks Brian.

I will say that the bass is pretty damn good!

George

Marbles · « **Reply #33 on:** 5 Jun 2004, 01:18 am »

CRAP!

I have had the glue and a paintbrush for two weeks. I also have 1" dowel rods for additional bracing and have been procrastinating, hoping something better would come along as I have had no desire to do this mod.

Guess I'll have to do it soon now.

In laziness, Peace out.....

warnerwh · « **Reply #34 on:** 5 Jun 2004, 07:31 am »

Marbles: If you put in dowels the 40's you may want to cross them next to each other and hot glue them together. Also getting some 1x2 oak and glueing pieces to the walls will also help. I'd get Brian's opinion on all of this as I'm just going by what I did on my Supertower/R SE's and they already had two window braces. Actually instead of dowel you may want to use flat pieces and make a cross that can be glued together more securely than dowels. The difference on my speakers that already had two window braces, although thinner walls, is excellent. If you're mechanically inclined you'll know where to strengthen the cabinets, if not just ask Brian, he may have some good ideas. Last note: be very careful no hot glue gets on your hand! Trust me:)

JoshK · « **Reply #35 on:** 7 Jun 2004, 01:31 am »

I thought I read somewhere that BC was in favor of window bracing as opposed to dowel bracing.

Marbles · « **Reply #36 on:** 7 Jun 2004, 01:44 am »

Quote from: JoshK

I thought I read somewhere that BC was in favor of window bracing as opposed to dowel bracing.

You read that correctly, but you also may have read that it will have to be cut in half, pushed through the woofer holes then reglued in place.

Big dowel rods seemed MUCH easier.

warnerwh · « **Reply #37 on:** 7 Jun 2004, 02:41 am »

I think Brian prefers the window braces due to the fact the front baffle will not push on the back baffle. That's why I recommend crossing them right next to each other and glueing them. Also 2x2's would work well. Guaranteed to force the enclosure to be more rigid which in turn will make everything somewhat more coherent. My only experience is with my Supertower/R SE's but I remember reading someone doing 40's with excellent results.

rkapadia@ROOP · « **Reply #38 on:** 9 Jun 2004, 05:57 am »

Scott,

When you have the opportunity, I'd appreciate any comments on the SACD/ RedBook hybrid disc of Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon.

Kind Regards,

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #39 on:** 9 Jun 2004, 07:43 pm »

Quote

Roop is a great guy. This is meant solely for informational purposes & is only my opinion, but I would never personally demo the RMX with that particular amp. I'd get something better, & I think it would not necessarily need to cost much more. That new 100W Ampzilla stereo would be great on the ribbons with Brian's recommended QSC on the bass-WOW!

I've heard Spectron's with 2 VMPS speakers (RM'X and RM 40s)and I thought the sound was very good(at Roop's untreated room) to superb (at Josh K's super tweaked out room) in both environments.

Are you an Ampzilla dealer, Jim?

Michael