[James Romeyn]

I'd love to hear the Alphas if a proud owner would be so kind to have me over for a brief audition.  Would be happy to bring refreshments & snacks.  Would prefer Sonoma or Marin county, but anywhere Bay Area location would be fine.  Let me know your time schedule.  Thanks.
Jim

[Snegrah]

Jim:
Remember me?  You helped me sell the VMPS FF1's.  What are you doing on this forum???? I built a a pair of Alphas!  Call me to come and listen.  Bring your McCormack (sp).  What kind of refreshments are you gonna bring?  I'll start with a Starbucks non-fat latte - grande w/2 Equal and a banana nut muffin.
Tom

[James Romeyn]

Tom
Tell me when, I'll be there, I'll bring the instant Sanka & twinkies just like you ordered above.  If it's OK with you, it might be informative to bring a pair of RM30s & a very small bass amp, but only with your complete blessings.  Let me know.  I got interested in hearing the Alphas based on AZRyan's posts at the VMPS circle.  I can't say how much better the RM30s are if I haven't heard the Alphas, even though I heard your midrange (& alleged combination tweeter) driver by itself.  You tell me: is there any topend rolloff on the Alphas?  Only the SPL meter knows!  Are you using a sub?

[Snegrah]

HEY!  NO STARBUCKS + MUFFIN = NO AUDITION!

As soon as I get my schedule book in front of me, I'll give you a call.  RM30's welcomed.  If you have a lot of time, maybe I can hook up the Orions that I have as well?!?!?!  It'll be a full day of it I'm sure.  So, along with the muffins, what are you bringing for lunch....dinner?

Tom

[azryan]

What's the point jim?

You as a VMPS dealer have already MASSIVELY trashed the Neo 8 and ripped on the Alphas/Danny in assorted ways.

Why don't you just keep running with that?  Seems to work well for you.

People like me countering misguided points with actual real info of far more depth just get those posts deleted.

There's no doubt when you actually HEAR the Alphas you'll claim you won't find them to kick the ass that those RM-30's do.

You'll word it cleverly to make it sound legitamite but you have already PROVEN to have a 100% totally biased opinion against them.

This recent exchange WAS on VMPS's forum.

In a recent thread about Martin Logan's vs. VMPS -where I actually complimented vmps's speakers vs. M-L.... yet it turned into you and brian c. and no shock -rick craig bashing Danny's design and choices and the use of the Neo 8, etc...

You just want to make the bashing appear legitamite by actually having heard the Alphas once.

That thread was moved to 'in limbo' and will probably be deleted.

You're not fooling anyone here though as long as I keep the records of the things you guys posted even if they get deleted. Your own posts speak for themselves -IF people get the chance to read them.

[azryan]

"-I can't say how much better the RM30s are if I haven't heard the Alphas,-"

hehe.... looks like you already have! Jeez!

"-even though I heard your midrange (& alleged combination tweeter) driver by itself.-"

And BASHED it. AND I freakin' TOLD you it's not a midrange driver.

In the Alphas it covers 1275Hz on up. That's aTWEETER, and not an 'alleged tweeter' like you just wrote.

"-You tell me: is there any topend rolloff on the Alphas? Only the SPL meter knows!-"

1). Danny's own measurments show what the output is AND he's already explained that the top end comes up even more at a distance.

2). Don't talk about 'only an SPL meter knows!' when VMPS refuses to post measurments of ANY of their speakers -yet has said they would, and MUST have those measurments to make claims about other drivers and claims about their own speaker's performance.

Also... his Alphas aren't broken in yet. They're brand new -not that it will change your pre-biased opinion.

Have you read what he recently wrote Snegrah? You guys may get along just fine and have a good time testing out speakers -which is a cool thing, but he's gonna use it to bash GR/Danny. He's already done it.

[Enrico]

azryan:
How can you possibly object to a private agreement between a user of GR Research speakers and someone else to set up a listening session? That's up to them.

Everyone here knows that Jim is a dealer for a competing brand. I assume that everyone here is also smart enough to take any and all of Jim's subsequent comments with a grain--or more--of salt. That does not mean that his comments might not be useful; an intelligent person will be able to interpret them and take them in context.

[jonwb]

Ryan,

I did read the posts you made in the infamous VMPS v. M-L thread.  While I do think that your comments were very constructive, and those goof-balls (Brian & Rick specifically) did indeed jump all over what I thought were reasonable and generally favorable comments about the VMPS line, I don't think you'd be showing much wisdom to be surprised by their remarks.  

I do find it sad however when several of the VMPSers jump on the bandwagon of whatever "Big B" says regardless of its fairness, accuracy or validity.  Heck, if Danny said something I didn't agree with I'd either not comment or tell him I disagree, and I think that holds true of most of the people in this little corner of AC.  I read the VMPS forum quite regularly and to be honest I find Brian's comments pretty bizarre sometimes.  One minute he sounds pretty reasonable and objective, and the next minute... not so much (edited).  I'm sure his speakers sound great.  I don't know why he has to rip on other designer's products like that.  

Generally I agree with Enrico's comments above.  If these two guys want to get together and listen to each others' speakers that's their prerogative.  I'd be curious to hear how the two stack up as well.  Heck, even if this guy does use this as an opportunity to say he's heard the LS's and doesn't think they sound good, that doesn't necessarily make it so.  Are you (or Tom) going to suddenly think your speakers don't sound good?  I think not...  Personally, I'm curious to hear what Tom thinks of the 30's.

You know everyone is biased to a certain extent.  Especially when you've spent dozens of hours hand building your own speakers you want to believe they sound better than anything else.  Some people do a better job of being objective (I'd say you certainly fall into this category Ryan); some just have different sonic preferences.  Regardless, I'll continue to look forward to hearing my Alpha's and I know I'm going to like them.  Frankly with the time and money I've got invested I don't even care what anything else sounds like  

[JoshK]

Uhhh...which of us VMPSers were jumping on that bandwagon except for one dealer?

[Danny Richie]

Okay guys, play nice.

Ryan if those guys want to have a party and compare whatever that's their prerogative.

If debatable issues arrive because of it then you can debate them on it at that time (civilly).

Keep in mind that there is little point in debating subjective issues. A persons own opinion is valid even if no one agrees with them.

Everyone here knows that Jim is a dealer for a competing brand. I assume that everyone here is also smart enough to take any and all of Jim's subsequent comments with a grain--or more--of salt.

That sounds like an valid assessment. I would tend to agree. His comments are welcome.

[jonwb]

Uhhh...which of us VMPSers were jumping on that bandwagon except for one dealer?

I didn't mention that this occured in that particular thread (aside from the example you site).  I can't check, its gone   But I do recall its happened in the past, or maybe I'm just nuts...

Regardless, I do have to say I wince everytime I see Ryan post over there.  His posts certainly seem to stir the pot  

BTW Josh, I looked at your galley photos and noticed that on your RM40's the vertical corners are black.  Did you get them that way or paint them like that yourself?  Looks sharp, I was thinking of doing that to my Alpha's (if I ever get that far).  Kinda frames the front baffle.

[JoshK]

Jon,

They came that way.  I was a bit shocked at first, wasn't what I expected to get, but they have grown on me.

[James Romeyn]

The fact that my absolutely innocent & fair request to hear the Alphas took all of one day to turn into a VMPS/Brian/Jim hate-fest prooves quite well that there is something wrong in Alpha land.  Don't hold your breath waiting for an apology from me for gettting together with a guy I've known for two years (Tom).  

Ryan,

I did read the posts you made in the infamous VMPS v. M-L thread.  While I do think that your comments were very constructive,


The original poster wants to compare ML vs. VMPS.  VMPS-envy sufferers turn it quickly into an Alpha-love fest/VMPS hate thread.  I'm sure that was very constructive for the original poster.



and those goof-balls (Brian & Rick specifically) did indeed jump all over what I thought were reasonable and generally favorable comments about the VMPS line, I don't think you'd be showing much wisdom to be surprised by their remarks.


I agree Ryan lacks wisdom.


I do find it sad however when several of the VMPSers jump on the bandwagon of whatever "Big B" says regardless of its fairness, accuracor validity.


 Don't be sad, be happy.  It's more fair to quote specific examples if you want to make charges like above.  I disagree with Brian on a regular basis.  I ask customers what their likes & dislikes are, & ask which speakers they have liked in the past.  I never recommend something that I personally believe will not work.  I have specifally recommended certain models in the past not be purchased.  I share the risk paying for one-way shipping in the event of returns.  Does Alpha offer full refunds for disatisfied customers?  Any way to hear them at home at all?  


Heck, if Danny said something I didn't agree with I'd either not comment or tell him I disagree, and I think that holds true of most of the people in this little corner of AC. I read the VMPS forum quite regularly and to be honest I find Brian's comments pretty bizarre sometimes. One minute he sounds pretty reasonable and objective, and the next minute... not so much (edited). I'm sure his speakers sound great. I don't know why he has to rip on other designer's products like that.

What's wrong with a forum moderator stating his opinions?

Generally I agree with Enrico's comments above. If these two guys want to get together and listen to each others' speakers that's their prerogative.

Be real specific.  "Generally" means you disagree with at least some litttle tiny part of my request.  What might that be?  


I'd be curious to hear how the two stack up as well. Heck, even if this guy does use this as an opportunity to say he's heard the LS's and doesn't think they sound good, that doesn't necessarily make it so. Are you (or Tom) going to suddenly think your speakers don't sound good? I think not... Personally, I'm curious to hear what Tom thinks of the 30's.

You know everyone is biased to a certain extent. Especially when you've spent dozens of hours hand building your own speakers you want to believe they sound better than anything else. Some people do a better job of being objective (I'd say you certainly fall into this category Ryan);


Not

 some just have different sonic preferences. Regardless, I'll continue to look forward to hearing my Alpha's and I know I'm going to like them. Frankly with the time and money I've got invested I don't even care what anything else sounds like  

Don't take this the wrong way, but above sounds very much like your investment makes it impossible to have any objective opinion about how they sound.    

...

[Double Ugly]

I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't own anything from either manufacturer, and perception is almost as subjective as audio.  That said, you made a few comments I'd like to address, Jim.

The fact that my absolutely innocent & fair request to hear the Alphas took all of one day to turn into a VMPS/Brian/Jim hate-fest prooves quite well that there is something wrong in Alpha land.  

If the appearance of being "innocent and fair" is your tactic, you shouldn't make statements like this...

I can't say how much better the RM30s are if I haven't heard the Alphas..."

Nothing like going into an audition with an open mind and no agenda, huh?

What's wrong with a forum moderator stating his opinions?

Nothing, and I suspect most everyone here feels the same way.  The problem arises (for the company, for resellers and for "Big B") when the manufacturer comes off as petty, defensive, and insecure more often than not.  Since I have no vested interest, I usually find it humorous.  Occasionally it's a little sad or just plain boring, but I just scroll past the laments and diatribes that aren't entertaining.

Don't take this the wrong way, but above sounds very much like your investment makes it impossible to have any objective opinion about how they sound.  

Considering the second quote above, I'm surprised you could muster up the cajones to make this statement.  

Pot calling kettle, come in kettle...

DU

[Danny Richie]

To whatever facilitator that just moved this thread to limbo (Guys, it wasn't me).

Just so you know.

Private messages were sent to several involved in this thread to keep it in check.

Hopefully personal feelings can be put aside and good information can be shared.

I think I can handle it, and respectfully request that it be placed back into my forum so that I can handle it.

Again to those involved. Play nice.

I am not going to start taking sides or debating person issues with you guys.

If you want to debate something among yourselves then start a new thread, debate only non-subjective material, and be civil.

[theborg]

Not sure who moved it but I'm happy to move it back at your request.

[zybar]

Danny,

Do you have any Alpha owners in the NYC area that allow auditions?

Although I am a VMPS RM 40 owner, I would like to hear the Alphas and decide for myself on the speaker.

Thanks,

George

[Danny Richie]

Not sure who moved it but I'm happy to move it back at your request.

Thanks,

Danny,

Do you have any Alpha owners in the NYC area that allow auditions?

Although I am a VMPS RM 40 owner, I would like to hear the Alphas and decide for myself on the speaker.

Thanks,

George

Thanks for your appreciated contribution George.

That I know of, the closest to you is a guy in Mass., but I believe he is still working on getting his together.

I don't recall anyone else close enough to you that doesn't make it into a more serious road trip.

I would love for you to be able to hear them as well.

Ever take any business trips?  

[Marbles]

Danny,

At one point I thought I would buy either your Alphas (ready made pair) or the VMPS RM40's.

The reasons why I chose VMPS were:

1.  I got a killer deal on the used RM40's (if I had received the same deal on the Alpha's, I'd probably be an Alpha owner now)
2.  No GR center channel at that time to match the Alphas' - Ryans creation looks great, I hope that goes into production
3. No side or surrounds to match the Alpha's.

Are there now sides or surrounds?

How did Ryan's center turn out in your opinion?

Thanks

[Snegrah]

Gentlepersons:

WOW!  I just got back in after my last post yesterday!  What the hell is going on?  

Jim helped me sell my VMPS FF1's which, is the next above the RM40.  I got rid of them due to their massive size and lack of aesthetics.  They had the neo upgrade and were bi-amped = more electronics. Overall, in my opinion, they weren't that great.  They did produce a wall of loud sound but I had trouble liking them.  Often, I would think that I've lost my ears for good sound and this is just the way it is so get used to it.  

Well, after building the Orions and then the Alphas, I determined my ears are in good condition.  The Orions and the Aphas both were better, in my opinion and in my room, than the FF1's.  The Aplhas are the best, in my room, I've heard so far.  They are also the simplest speaker.  One amp and one set speaker terminals.  

Before the ribbon edition FF1's, I've had the dynamic FF1s & FF3s at different times for audition.  I liked the wall of sound but still wasn't satisfied.  Also, believe it or not, there was not enough bass.  My room eats bass.  The Alphas bass is there and getting better and better!

NOTE to Danny:  I've got the #39 resistor in and I think it may stay.  Should I wait longer or order up this one?

I'm more than happy to have Jim over with the RM30s.  The RM30s intrigued me at first but after living with their much larger brother(s) I lost it for VMPS.  It is a good chance for me to hear another VMPS product in my room.  VMPS and I go back some 25+ years!

So, if Jim will bring the Starbucks NON-FAT latte and banana nut muffin with the RM30s, he's welcome.

Tom