[MichaelHiFi]

Should show up tommorow 

I have a Macbook Pro and an Oppo BDP95
How best to utilize this DAC's talents?

Would like an easy to use interface. Not a fan of iTunes but I do like what I'd heard from Amarra, Puremusic and Audiovana.
Could stream HDMI through Oppo (I2S?). View with monitor (with my glasses on  ), or not cause I'd be using the single HDMI output to DAC 
Squeezecenter Touch using the EDO app although it seems I'd still need (or desire) a USB clocking device such as OR4 or audiophilea, or other.

I really like using the IPAD as a remote.

I have libraries of both FLAC and Apple lossless and loaded on an external hard drive that's been connected to Oppo via USB.

Thoughts?

[simon wagstaff]

Really want to hear your impressions of this unit. itunes sux, I use decibel with very good results. I would say use the toslink audio out from the mac mini, others disagree but that works best for me. Maybe consider an HDMI audio de-embedder for hi rez stereo sound.

Looking forward to hearing your impressions.

[rw@cn]

I would appreciate your thoughts too. 

[SlushPuppy]

Please give us an update once you've listened to it for a while. I see that piece in every new Audio Advisor catalog and must confess to drooling a bit when I see it 

[eclein]

Please give us an update once you've listened to it for a while. I see that piece in every new Audio Advisor catalog and must confess to drooling a bit when I see it 

+1

[dwk]

I have an M51, although I'm not entirely sure how useful my perspective is since I'm not particularly obsessive about trying to optimize every last little detail.

For me, it was a matter of deciding what functions/features I needed in my playback chain, and once I did that the interface choice kinda determined itself. 

Running SACD/DVD-A in via HDMI is the probably the best use of that connection - it wouldn't be my choice for the primary interface. (note - not I2S. The M51 is true HDMI, not I2S on the HDMI connector).  It does work reasonably well as a "2.0 pre-pro" if you have a mixed environment. I had a few HDMI lockups with my DirectTV box, but generally it was pretty good. I thought audio quality was maybe not quite as good as over spdif, but I never really sat down to critically compare the two.

As far as USB goes, I just picked up a new laptop and my preliminary listening says that USB from the laptop is at least as good and probably better than a stock SB Touch via optical.  Not a definitive judgement, but I'd strongly suggest trying USB direct before heading down the road of external usb->spdif converters.

I originally chose the M51 intending to make it the center of a mixed A/V system, so the HDMI functionlity and volume control were big factors. After deciding to stay in our current house and repurpose some spaces, that entire idea went out the window. The M51 is now part of a headphone rig which is my only 2-channel system, and the A/V space now has a projector and a 5.1 setup. Despite the complete 180, I'm still quite happy with the M51. Running into a  Stax 3050 setup the sound is fantastic (even if I do need to nudge the bottom end up a bit via eq, which is easy enough on the PC), and the money I saved on speakers and amps more than paid for the projector and 5.1 setup. Win/Win.

[MichaelHiFi]

I received my M51 5 days ago so these are early impressions with a rather limited amount of testing with the M51’s generous amount of connectivity.
Comparisons with other DACs although not directly AB’d are relevant in my mind as we’ve gone back and forth and noted the strengths and weaknesses of these DAC’s in our system. Our system consists of;
Preamp is an Allnic L3000
Amp is a pair of Joule Electra VZN100 MK III’s.
Speakers are GR-Research Super V’s.
DAC’s used are Eastern Electric Minimax
Tranquility SE
Oppo BDP-95
We have been enjoying both the EE dac and the Tranquility SE, both offering a very different perspective in music. The Tranquility we find rather, ah, Tranquil in that it seems to tame the brightness we’ve come to know in many of the popular recordings. It is smooth yet it still retrieves a good amount of detail. In an aggressive system I can see this as a good match, or, with folks who are sensitive to harshness and or upper frequencies, or are just not used to the matter of factness of some equipment, this is a great DAC IMO.
The Eastern Electric is a very different animal. It renders great space and a wider soundstage perhaps through the way it magnifies and highlights. I was able to AB this DAC against the Oppo, level matched and found that the Oppo narrowed the stage but gave us a very solid central image where the EE broadened everything. With the EE tube employed the image softened and wasn’t quite so dynamic.
The NAD has been quite something. Hang with me I’m not very good critiquing. Natural is my first impression. That’s the first adjective to describe the NAD. Now when I go back and play the Oppo it sounds harsh and overly aggressive. The Tranquility sounds slightly rolled off and the EE sounds slightly mechanical. Now I’ll back up because using different connections gives very different outlooks.
Connected through a Macbook Pro running Audiovana, USB into the NAD, I didn’t care for its character. It sounded a bit clinical and lacked the warmth and beauty we experienced through Oppo HDMI.  Using the Oppo as a streamer (hard drive attached via USB) I connected through HDMI (yes HDMI) to the NAD and sent balanced out to the Allnic preamp, this so far has been by far the best connectivity in our system. Magic is happening here. Lets talk about connecting to the music. I mean emotionally connecting. This isn’t a “wow, did you hear that”, or any one trick pony, this is something that seems to have all the attributes of vinyl, only none of its negatives. (My vinyl is good, VPI Scoutmaster, Dynavector XXV MK III with Soundsmith’s best tip). The NAD seems to scrape away an amazing amount of information from the file (FLAC and WAV) and present it vividly but without an aggressiveness that is usually the sacrifice for such information retrieval. Vocals. This is where I thought I’d pack up my vinyl rig and bid farewell. I thought my system performed vocals well before the NAD arrived. Now I have to wonder why I even thought that. This is part of the connection, the way the vocalists sing with ease yet nothing is hidden or rolled off. The textures and fabric of the music is simply amazing. Drums beats which is already the best period on this system took on another level of authenticity. The 2 each servo controlled open baffle woofers, powered by some Rythmic plate amps offer bass with little to no overhang I’ve ever been able to detect and with great texture. With the NAD bass got slightly diminished in favor of texture. Now on our system, we can simply turn up the servo amps to our liking. I cannot comment on how this might effect other systems. But don’t get me wrong the bass goes deep maybe even deeper, There’s slam too. But now it’s even more delineated, more real.

Let me throw some examples out there.
B-Tribe “Suave Suave” there are some serious bass pedal notes. We are talking low octave stuff. The notes are there only now more delineated as I mentioned. It’s hard to describe. You cannot help but take notice of this. I played Dave Mason “Alone Together” a favorite of mine way back when. What struck me was that this song sounded like it did “way back when”. It was not changed, rather, it was portrayed in whole, Dave’s voice so unbelievably natural, it brought tears to my eyes. It was beautiful. It wasn’t a DAC playing, it was music playing. I thought this recording was soft and rolled off. In this instance it was dynamic yet controlled, detailed yet not at the expense of the song. You could still follow along with the pieces of the song or just take it in as the entire melody. I had to play it again. Playing Sia “Some People Have Real Problems” Beautiful Calm Driving, her voice came across so vividly yet so natural, you were simply drawn into the music. Surrounding her voice was all the texture and timber that had shown in other dacs, but not as vividly or as naturally. There just seems to be a good balance of detail and texture but without the expense of the music. The following song Lullaby, I don’t play much if at all but now I was captivated by Sia’s voice. It was so clear, so intimate, it was simply mesmerizing. The NAD was begging for bad recordings. Journey’s first album when Journey was “Journey” and Neil Schon ruled, “Of a Lifetime”. This recording took on a new life, not changed so much just more textured, greater separation and still the same excitement but not at the expense of driving you out of the room.
Next night I played some Eric Clapton, Me and Mr. Johnson. Whoa, the performance was in the room. Very dynamic here, with great separation of instruments and great timbre. Again, you became very involved in the song, toes tapping, I mean you’re swinging in the rhythm. Off to Eric’s Reptile and still, so fun to listen too. I mean simply fun. You can go from nostalgic to intimate to fun with this DAC. I spun Peter Frampton’s “Thank You Mr. Churchill” on SACD. This recording starts out very dynamic with an amazing bass line that all morning long has been playing in my head sounded awesome until the very dynamic passage kicked in. On all other setups I’ve had it was tough to listen too. Even with the NAD I had to turn it down. It is not going to fix bad or strangely recorded music.
It’s not all good.
The NAD M51 has 2 buttons. Most functions are off the remote. My remote won’t communicate properly with the NAD. The unit is going back but Tim at NAD is a true gentleman, into his product, and wanting to help in any way. Audio Advisor as well is holding a unit at my request as I thought I could fix this issue. I couldn’t.
This is an early impression with a limited amount of connectivity. I have a higher quality USB cable coming my way. I’m looking for an 11 year old to help me understand how to use connect iTunes to my network library and, in general, understand iTunes libraries which IMO, suck horribly.
I believe NAD is using I2S through HDMI. There seems to be some mystery here regarding this.
I did try using the NAD as a preamp, bypassing the Allnic. I’m spoiled with the Allnic. The General is staying in the loop. The music lost its beauty. More testing is needed. After all, this is a hobby. I will get impressions from other fellow audio guys and gals too. The wife gives it a major thumbs up, and she’s REALLY PICKY. She cites vocals and connection to the music as strengths. Also noted that the aggressiveness is gone but without any sacrifice to detail. She plays music LOUDLY!! I mean it. If something is broke with the sound, you’ll hear it and she’ll tell you.
 

[SlushPuppy]

Great review Michael, and killer system you've assembled there 

I'm surprised your system sounded that much better with the Allnic in the loop. I expected a change either way, but that much? I wonder what the Allnic adds that the NAD doesn't, and is this is something NAD could improve upon with a firmware update? (Just thinking out loud). Regardlesss, the NAD sounds like a wonderful DAC and is high on my wish list.

Good luck getting your problem resolved.


Slush

[saeyedoc]

I don't understand how you could be using I2S through HDMI with your Oppo unless it has been modified to do so.

[MichaelHiFi]

I don't understand how you could be using I2S through HDMI with your Oppo unless it has been modified to do so.

I spoke with the Oppo engineer to confirm. I2S is supported in so far as being the bus or pathway to the DAC. I knew the chipset was there. If you start getting deep into electronics, my brain isn't wired that way. I can only dream I knew more about circuit design 

Speaking with AA, their guys prefer too the HDMI bus. I will still experiment with other connectivity as I have some USB cables coming my way. Coax should be interesting as well. But to be honet, it just sounds so good with the HDMI cable..

[Berto]

I'm not surprised at all that the Allinic helps to make that magic happen. My DACs (AMR-DP-777) linestage is more dynamic and transparent then adding my Shindo pre but the latter is just so much more emotionally satisfying. Take the Shindo out, and the Magic is gone. No firmware update is gonna change that, IMO

[highfilter]

Many user reports are that the amp-direct route with the NAD M51 is very good and transparent - but some people prefer the sound of their preamp. Just depends on the user and system.

Also regarding connectivity, the USB so far has been said to be a good implementation, but far from perfect. Almost everyone that tries a USB converter says it opens up the sound and improves the sound across the board. Mostly from the Audiophilleo2 or Empricial Audio Off-Ramp.

Picking up my own NAD M51 this weekend hopefully and can't wait to dig in. Lots of user impressions on the DAC over at Stereo.net.au Forums too.

[MichaelHiFi]

Berto, agree with you 100%. Through all my playing with sources and in all the years I've been doing this, the preamp in my system(s) has the general. That's where I've spent the most money. Had the Cary SLP-05 prior to the Allnic.

Highfilter, Like to try an USB converter. Wanted to operate through the IPAD cause even my 94 year old dad can operate and play his Big band music and other of his faves like David Gilmore and Neil Young. 

But it seems going that route is
A. Expensive USB converter
B. Stuck with iTunes
C. Need a Mac mini or dedicated computer

Where as Oppo indirect (I2S) from NAD gets me balanced interconnects to my Allnic and no need for USB converter.

The down side is no cool interface 

I actually complained to Oppo about their interface, its timing issues and its lack of an app to control music through smart devices in an elagent manner. If they could develop something cool in software just think. An SACD player. An I2S bus. Network and outboard hard drive connectivity. Why would one even need a computer interface?

Looking forward to others opinions 

[dwk]

Please, can you stop saying "I2S". the Oppo is NOT using an I2S connection to the M51. It is using plain old HDMI audio, the same thing that every DVD/Blu-Ray player uses to every Receiver out there.  The Oppo does not output I2S over it's HDMI connector, and despite continued swirling rumors, there has never been any proof that the M51 is magically capable of handling both HDMI and I2S-on-HDMI-connector on the same connector.

[MichaelHiFi]

That is what the Oppo engineer told me as I had just gotten off the phone with him, using the HDMI connection as an I2S bus. I also said I am not electronically savvy - in so many words, so beyond what I think is separating clock and data, or other, I know squat. If there's a difference between I2S and an I2S bus, then explain, and explain why I should care when it comes to connecting the NAD to the Oppo.

Furthermore, I've been on the phone with NAD support Mike (hell of a nice guy) over the last 3 days working on a problem with the remote. In conversations regarding the outputs, the NAD will output I2S over its HDMI bus. PM me and I'll give you the direct numbers for both Mike at NAD and Chris at Oppo - if you're interested.

I'm looking for the best connectivity and will experiment with my ears and share with those who are interested. 

I'm hear to learn and share. I also don't wish to give out false information. If you know more than what the Oppo/NAD engineer's are doing, and you emphatically stated that the Oppo is NOT using an I2S connection to the M51, I'm all ears 

[bryan0101]

So Michael, have you gotten back another M51, and what's the impression so far after 3 months?
I'm still waiting to see if I should get one.....

And is it really I2S from Oppo to M51?

[morganc]

I'll answer part of this question, yes he got the NAd and he loves it .   I've been over to hear it a few times and his system sounds fantastic.    Last time we did an interesting A-B with the Nad and The metrum Octave using the digital output of the Metrum and the HdMI out of the NAD into his Allnic Pre-amp.  We could A-B on the fly by using the Allnic remote and changing sources.   We had three listeners, myself, Michael, and the best ears of us all, Michael's lovely wife.   Guess what?    There was maybe a 1% difference between the two and that was the increasd detail of the Metrum.........and we all had to listen maybe 10 times to hear the difference.....that close........so if you don't need a Pre (like the Nad has) save some coin and buy the Metrum.   Both are excellent

[bryan0101]

  Wow...didn't expect that. I read about the metrum, and I am a fan of the NOS design (running a mhdt Havana currently). But comparing a fishermans friend tinbox Dac to the beefy M51, man. Glad I asked in this thread.

To be fair, nowaday you can get some high res audio from net. 96k, or even 192k 24 bits audio files. Have you guys tested these? If M51 come out ahead with high res, vs the redbook CD files, then it's still a good value.
And to M51 credit, it is actually really hard to match the level of realism and analog-like quality of a good NOS dac with no filters.

[dwk]

And is it really I2S from Oppo to M51?

No. It is standard HDMI audio.

[rklein]

I was seriously considering trying out the M51 in my system.  However, I now am looking at DACS that offer DSD capabilities as well.  Too bad that the M51 does not have DSD.  It would be the perfect product for me if it did with the excellent reports regarding its preamp functions.

In fact, it would be even cooler if NAD put DSD capable HDMI inputs on the M51.   

Regards,

Randy