[satfrat]

Incredible: Ferrari does not matter most to hide their devious tricks, and thanks to Massa:
http://www.f1passion.it/2012/11/f1-gp-usa-ferrari-dice-grazie-a-massa/
Austin, 18 novembre – Abbiamo deciso di ricevere la penalità correlata alla sostituzione del cambio (cinque posizioni in meno in griglia).
La scelta è stata fatta per fini strategici, con l’obiettivo di massimizzare la prestazione alla partenza di Fernando, ancora in lotta per il Campionato Piloti. Abbiamo visto ieri come partire dalla parte sporca della griglia sia molto penalizzante: il rischio di ritrovarci troppo lontani dalle posizioni di vertice già al primo giro era elevato. E’ stata una scelta condivisa con entrambi i piloti. Abbiamo sempre detto che l’interesse della squadra è superiore a quello dei singoli ed è questo lo spirito con cui abbiamo sempre agito, nella massima trasparenza: Felipe ha compreso le ragioni e ha dimostrato una volta di più il suo grande senso di appartenenza al team e di questo vogliamo ringraziarlo pubblicamente.

See wee wee. 

[Vapor Audio]

Felipe Massa had a good race and finished fourth. But it could have gone further he were not stoped by a dirty revolting attitude from his own Team.
Team Ferrari unbelievably acted against its second pilot again to earn one position on the starting grid for Alonso.
Few moments before starting the race Ferrari Team purposely violated the seal on the gearbox of the Felipe Massa car to force a penalty to him of 5 grid positions with the aim of favoring Alonso in one position on the starting grid!!...

With that dirty game Alonso went from 8th to 7th on the starting grid and went on to the clean side of the track.
Massa now starting from 11th made ​​a nice recovery race, with good maneuvers such as overtaking on Schumacher and Raikkonen and finished 4th.
Bruno Senna also performed well and was rewarded with a 10th place, which earned him one point.

It was much time I did not see an so dirty attitude of Ferrari Team, Iam sure this team will not be punished.
Im always amazed how F1 is a corrupt category.

Details:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2234963/Unites-States-Grand-Prix-2012-Ferrari-bend-rules-Felipe-Massa-gearbox-change.html

No need to be so dramatic.  It's a sport, and believe it or not Massa works for his team as does Alonso.  What Massa did is called taking one for the team, happens in every sport.

[FullRangeMan]

No need to be so dramatic.  It's a sport, and believe it or not Massa works for his team as does Alonso.  What Massa did is called taking one for the team, happens in every sport.

Car racing are individual sports, the winner is just one pilot, not the Team.
Ball sports are team/collective sports in which the winner is the team, not one player.
Last year Ferrari has already been punished for ordering by the radio that Massa let Alonso pass.
The punishment was 100K dollars and 10 grid positions.

[jtwrace]

Car racing are individual sports, the winner is just one pilot, not the Team.

This coming from the person who's not involved in it.   

[FullRangeMan]

This coming from the person who's not involved in it.   

Indeed.

[satfrat]

Keselowski said. "I've got the best team in racing, and I'm just so thrilled to be a part of it. From the top down, Roger Penske, [crew chief] Paul Wolfe, everybody else, the crew guys and my family -- that means so much.""

Sprint Cup Champion Brad Keselowski would disagree with with your BS insights of "Car racing are individual sports, the winner is just one pilot, not the Team". IMHO,that statement has to be one of the most asinine autosports comments I've ever read and for someone who calls himself FullRange, you seem to have very narrow vision. 

Cheers,
Robin

[FullRangeMan]

Sprint Cup Champion Brad Keselowski would disagree with with your BS insights of "Car racing are individual sports, the winner is just one pilot, not the Team". IMHO,that statement has to be one of the most asinine autosports comments I've ever read and for someone who calls himself FullRange, you seem to have very narrow vision. 

Cheers,
Robin

Pilots have to have ethical behavior on the track, and so on the Team, this Ferrari did again today is unsportsmanlike conduct, so much that it has been punished in 2011.
Lets see this time, as broke the Massa car gearbox seal is too unfair to me.

[ltr317]

Pilots have to have ethical behavior on the track, and so on the Team, this Ferrari did again today is unsportsmanlike conduct, so much that it has been punished in 2011.
Lets see this time, as broke the Massa car gearbox seal is too unfair to me.

I see all viewpoints on this issue, as there are different opinions up and down the formula 1 paddock.  Whitmarsh of McLaren stated that some drivers who qualified on the clean side of the track were moved to the dirty side.  That didn't affect his drivers but if it did it he would have been peed off.  He also said that while he didn't agree with what they did, Ferrari didn't break any rules and the team should run it as they see fit. 

There are many F1 teams who don't have a number one and number two driver hierarchy.  However, Ferrari is not one of those teams, so it is perfectly reasonable for them to get Alonso on the clean side since he has a chance to win the title while Massa did not.  While Massa didn't like it, he also knows how the team works and accepted the decision.  For any driver to drive for Ferrari they must accept the two tier system.  That's why Schumi always got preferential treatment as the number one driver at the prancing horse.   

[FullRangeMan]

I see all viewpoints on this issue, as there are different opinions up and down the formula 1 paddock.  Whitmarsh of McLaren stated that some drivers who qualified on the clean side of the track were moved to the dirty side.  That didn't affect his drivers but if it did it he would have been peed off.  He also said that while he didn't agree with what they did, Ferrari didn't break any rules and the team should run it as they see fit. 

There are many F1 teams who don't have a number one and number two driver hierarchy.  However, Ferrari is not one of those teams, so it is perfectly reasonable for them to get Alonso on the clean side since he has a chance to win the title while Massa did not.  While Massa didn't like it, he also knows how the team works and accepted the decision.  For any driver to drive for Ferrari they must accept the two tier system.  That's why Schumi always got preferential treatment as the number one driver at the prancing horse.   

I agree with your post, no prob to have a #1 pilot and a #2 pilot.
The only prob is this scandalous case is breaking the gearbox seal of his own driver.
Unfortunately the F1 regulation is omitted for team actions.
If this news shocked you guys excuse me, I was shocked too with this conduct.

[richidoo]

I thought Ferrari was very clever to think of the tactic before anyone else. There is hope for Ferrari after all, in 2014 maybe...   

Funniest moment was Smedley trying to explain weight dynamics to Massa over the radio when Massa couldn't understand why his wheels were locking up under braking. Hobbs called Massa daft.

It was nice to see Louis and Fernando joking like close friends on the podium while Vettel interviewed. The feud was never between them, they were both at war with Dennis.

Rain is expected in Brazil. Alonso is 13 points behind Vettel going into this last race, and that is fewer points than the 15 that Vettel was behind Alonso going into the last race of 2010.

[Crimson]

I see nothing wrong with breaking the seal. In fact, it's pure genius.

[blutto]

I see nothing wrong with breaking the seal. In fact, it's pure genius.

...not if you happen to think that "rules" are simply the codification of the what people like to call the spirit of the law. a wee little thing thing also called fair play...which in this case got mugged, trampled and left for dead...

...that being said, it does set up a cracker of a last race don't it...

Cheers

blutto

[GT Audio Works]

No need to be so dramatic.  It's a sport, and believe it or not Massa works for his team as does Alonso.  What Massa did is called taking one for the team, happens in every sport.

Yes racing is a sport...but a one with the possibility of a fatal outcome. And maybe what happened with this gearbox thing was no different than taking a hit from a pitch or bunting to get to the next heavy hitter. But racing is a strange mix of personal glory and team strategy and risking ones life. There is no team on the field when your out the track.. its just you trying to out race the other guy and not killing yourself in the process.  The driver is the one with literally everything to lose. The driver should have the ultimate say on what goes.  But in the days of big money  corporate sponsorships and the ridiculous dollars spent on a team like Ferrari... I am afraid the driver has become just another part of the big money machine we call racing. And what was done to Massa ...especially after his near brush with death shows a lack of respect for the drivers and how they are nothing more than a vehicle to bigger and more sponsorship.
I didn't see the race and the way this gearbox seal thing went down it  but if I was Massa  I would have walked off the track and never came back to Big Red !!! Same goes for Ferrari's Barrichello / Shummacher thing thing a few years back.
I think f1 lost its purity years ago..of course its always nostalgia for each generation longing for the past.
 Ayrton Senna said it best when asked about his best time in competing against a driver. He said racing in his carting days...pure sport just the exhilaration of the race ..no rules or strategy...just pure racing.  He was never much of a team player. consider his relationship with Mclaren and his teamate Prost ..that's what made him so controversial in his day and disliked by the powers that be. Unfortunately when he went to Williams it was teams principals (Newey/Head) and their search for that last bit of  technical advantage common sense be damned... that cost Senna his life.
 Technology will march forward and things like kers and drs  will come and go...i just wish they would leave anything to do with the drivers ability to drive to car alone ...no traction control or any electronic device that "fixes" the drivers mistakes. I really don't even like electronic gearboxes...but I guess I am nostalgic for he days when you missed a shift  and looked pretty stupid as your engine revved through the roof !!!

[richidoo]

...not if you happen to think that "rules" are simply the codification of the what people like to call the spirit of the law. a wee little thing thing also called fair play...which in this case got mugged, trampled and left for dead...

There is no fair play in F1, nor any "spirit of the law." Every team looks for loopholes in the rules to exploit. There is so much money at stake, playing "fair" as a charitable gesture of love toward rival teams is not even considered, by any of them. Double diffusor, blown diffusor, bendy wings, F ducts, Coanda, ABS, drive by wire, active suspension, automatic transmission, none of it was written in the rules, but it was all ruled legal, then everyone else all pissy that they didn't think of it, then they all had it next race, and banned next season. It is the nature of the sport. The innovators win. Strategy innovations are the ultimate because they are free and  the most powerful effect.

I'm sure FIA is considering how they can prevent it from happening again without penalizing legitimate seal breaks for repairs. I like the narrow formula for the intense competition, but I long for an unlimited racing series with few rules to see what innovations would pop up.

[blutto]

...so given there is no fair play in F1 I take it's ok to have racers crashing out competitors to secure world championships?...if it is that is some "sport" they got there...

Cheers

blutto

[richidoo]

Fair is always open to interpretation. The FIA writes rules and the competitors make strategic, or emotional decisions whether to follow them.

Yes there is a rule against causing an accident. This year it gets you a drive through penalty.  Do you think Senna was worried about a drive through penalty when he exacted revenge against Prost in Suzuka?
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/10/21/20-years-since-senna-took-out-prost-at-suzuka-1990-japanese-gp-flashback/
People say it did damage to the sport. But now it is worshiped in F1 lore as a heroic act.

Deliberate crashing to win a championship has happened many times. When you look at history the consensus is that it pays off. It is an on track fight. People want to see passion. Rubbin is racin'.   It's entertainment.

I get upset when things go against my hopes. But I don't flip my lid, it's just a TV show.

[avahifi]

So then, is Massa's task for Brazil to crash Vettel out of the race?  And is Webber's job to take out Alonso?

Carrying on in the spirit of Senna, who I never really respected no matter how fast he was.

I'm praying for a wet wet race. 

Frank Van Alstine

[richidoo]

I can picture Montezemolo telling his team to win at any cost, and them rolling their eyes at him.  The FIA is not corrupt as it was in 1990. It disqualifies that behavior now. So I don't believe any team would discuss the strategy openly, but I bet it would cross the mind of any driver facing the decision with the world championship within his grasp. Most would not, but one in the field has already done it at least once.

I'm praying for a wet race too. I love when championship goes down to the last race.

[FullRangeMan]

The weather forecast is 90% chance of rain on Sunday:
Rain 48mm in all the day,
Temp.: 17º to 23ºC
Wind: 14km/h SSW

[blutto]

I can picture Montezemolo telling his team to win at any cost, and them rolling their eyes at him.  The FIA is not corrupt as it was in 1990. It disqualifies that behavior now. So I don't believe any team would discuss the strategy openly, but I bet it would cross the mind of any driver facing the decision with the world championship within his grasp. Most would not, but one in the field has already done it at least once.

I'm praying for a wet race too. I love when championship goes down to the last race.

...funny you would say that the FIA is not as corrupt as 1990 considering basically the same people are still running it....as for not believing any team would discuss a strategy to crash out opponents in the spot-light on centre stage in the pivotal race of the year....gosh, how foolish would one have to be to do such a thing, because these people may be underhanded, but definitely not foolish...

...as for this just being just business as usual for F1...look at what that kind of attitude by the UCI has done for cycling...

...and truth be known...I'm not a Fiat fan but I'm pulling for Alonso to take the title and/or Kimi to take the race...and agree with Frank about the wet race ( and Senna too )

Cheers

blutto