[AB]

Regarding Dura Ace, Ultegra, SRAM Red, Campy, etc. You owe it to yourself to test ride bikes with the different groups. There are differences between them and you'll need to feel for yourself what's up with each.

The right bike will be a freaking magic carpet. Really. It'll be a joy for a long time.

Oh. And then there are saddles.

[Don_S]

Unless I am reading the article wrong the equipment being evaluated is  the 2008 model year. I would hope part two is finished by now. 

I am not saying Dura-Ace is not made better.  I am saying actual performance may not be worth the extra cost depending upon the rider.  I am also saying Ultegra is quite good and satisfactory for many serious riders.

The difference between Dura-Ace and Ultegra might be more pronounced in hubs and I would expect it might make a significant difference there.  Definitely a good wheel set is critical and that includes the hubs.

I don't like Shimano combination brake/shift levers.  My hands are small and when I tried to use them decades ago I would always shift when I tried to brake. I am not sure how they work now.  But that is one reason why I went Campy way back when.

Here is an interesting and what appears to be an honest comprehensive analysis between Ultegra and Dura-Ace.  Part 1 focuses on front and rear derailleurs, but I couldn't find any listing for Part 2 and beyond addressing the other drivetrain components, so it probably hasn't been published yet.

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/features/dura-ace-ultegra.shtml

Steve

[AB]

I don't like Shimano combination brake/shift levers.  My hands are small and when I tried to use them decades ago I would always shift when I tried to brake. I am not sure how they work now.  But that is one reason why I went Campy way back when.

Specialized produces a shim that fits into the Shimano brake lever that moves the lever closer to the base - easier reach for small hands.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/beginners-corner/shim-get-brake-lever-closer-194563.html

[srb]

I am not saying Dura-Ace is not better.  I am saying it may not be worth the extra cost depending upon the rider.  I am also saying Ultegra is quite good and satisfactory for many serious riders.

I agree.  I always thought the difference was only weight and finish, but I did find interesting the very small operational and engineering differences that were revealed.  My bike is Ultegra with a budgetary concession to Shimano 105 for the cassette and chain.

The difference between Dura-Ace and Ultegra might be more pronounced in hubs and I would expect it might make a significant difference there.  Definitely a good wheel set is critical and that includes the hubs.

I would agree with this also.

Steve

[Don_S]

Cool, although I am now addicted to the Campy "mouse ears". 

Specialized produces a shim that fits into the Shimano brake lever that moves the lever closer to the base - easier reach for small hands.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/beginners-corner/shim-get-brake-lever-closer-194563.html

[zybar]

Regarding Dura Ace, Ultegra, SRAM Red, Campy, etc. You owe it to yourself to test ride bikes with the different groups. There are differences between them and you'll need to feel for yourself what's up with each.

The right bike will be a freaking magic carpet. Really. It'll be a joy for a long time.

Oh. And then there are saddles.

What I am struggling with is finding a shop that has the same bike with the different component levels.  For example, they might have the 105 and Ultegra, but not the Dura-Ace.  They will have the Dura-Ace but there will also be other upgrades and changes, so it won't really be an apple to apple comparison.

That being said, I hope to do some 30-45 min trials on a few different bikes this Friday.

George

[ted_b]

George,
I was just in the same boat, but a much smaller boat (less $$$    ).  I ended up today buying a 2011 GT Tachyon 3.0.  It is being shipped to my local Performance Bike shop (one of my sons works at one in Chicago) in the next 7 days.  It has what I need: 700/32 tires, a carbon fork to take the buzz off the road, and decent 3.0 level components.  Nothing serious, but a decent flat bar road hybrid.

[AB]

What I am struggling with is finding a shop that has the same bike with the different component levels.  For example, they might have the 105 and Ultegra, but not the Dura-Ace.  They will have the Dura-Ace but there will also be other upgrades and changes, so it won't really be an apple to apple comparison.

That being said, I hope to do so 30-45 min trials on a few different bikes this Friday.

George

Understood.
I would first test bikes for geometry/handling - relaxed versus standard performance. Certain handling attributes won't be obvious on your standard test ride so you'll need to trust the shop and your friends' input - unless your test rides include going out with a group, hammering a few long climbs, descending with a crowd, you know, what you will be doing eventually but not likely on a test ride.
Regardless, you really need to find a shop you trust and will work with you on this. They'll sort you out on the fine points that you'll miss on your test rides.

You'll have ample opportunity to try different component groups as you run through your test bikes. Take notes. One or two will stand out - more intuitive, smoother, faster actuation, on and on.

You're not likely to get everything you want on a bike right off he floor just as you mention. You'll probably end up testing a package bike rather than a "bespoke" set up.
Bespoke, LOL.

Anyways, the package bike will have a certain level of bits - gruppo, saddle, wheels, tires, even bar tape. The fit parts - stem, bars, seat post and saddle will be or at least should be swappable via the shop, no question. The other bits might also be swappable depending upon the $$ you're spending and how cool the shop thinks it is. If you are testing a Dogma or a Venge you don't need to worry - its all there and all good. Most anything else will mean negotiating the swaps.

You might consider waiting to upgrade the bits though. You never know what you'll learn once out there pedaling around. It might be you don't want 23 tires - too harsh. You want 25 or 28. (check you can get a 28 in your new bikes fork and chain stays)

What else might you figure out after a few thousand miles? Different saddle. Different bar tape and/or padding. Wider or narrower bars. Different pedals? I know a number of people who have chosen to go with mtn bike shoes and pedals ( two sided entry) rather than go directly to single sided road pedals as a learning aid. Or you could also go directly to Speedplay pedals which are two side road pedals.
I'm rambling. Sorry.
Anyways...
True, I doubt you'll find many apple to apple comparisons. You'll just need to take notes and pick the brains of the shop guys and your friends for the fine points you'll miss while being overwhelmed by all the cool bikes you're testing.
All this can be a lot of money, no doubt. It's worth taking your time to get it right.

[LadyDog]

George,
There are few places you can look for used.  Ebay as you mentioned.  Which is actually a pretty good place.  Some others; thepaceline.com and roadbikereview.com.  Both have classified sections, and in general are good sites to get end-user thoughts, recommendations, or advice.  I'm partial to the first site mentioned.

As mentioned by some others, Ultegra, Force/Rival, and Chorus/Centaur will give you 90% of the performance of their top tier cousins, at a much reduced cost.  More bang for your buck.  Test ride Ultegra, it will give you a pretty good idea what Dura Ace is like.  Or Force for Sram Red.  Finding Campy as OEM on a bike may be harder than you think.

Since it appears you are going to drop a fair amount of coin, I'll suggest again about getting fit.  Even at a scaled down version.  To put it into audio terms, kind of like soundtraps for your stereo systems.  Might be able to recommend someone in your area too.

Lastly, take your time, research, test ride, etc.  While carbon is the craze, you may decide a steel or titanium frame is best suited for you.  There is a whole-nother world out there when you get into custom frames.

[viggen]

OK here's what I did.  I bought like 5 bikes within a year's time.  I learned to wrench and restored two vintage bikes.  And, I put about 2000 miles on all my bikes.  Learned what I liked and disliked about each frame geometry, material and wheel type etc.  Afterwards, I narrowed down the frame I wanted then bought the gruppo from velomine and various parts off ebay.  They are authorized dealers and will match any crazy internet price. 

My only regret is I shoulda paid the extra $400 for the nicer gruppo. 

[RPM123]

Shimano Ultegra is an excellent groupo and unless you plan on racing, I would not worry too much about the added weight compared to the Dura Ace groupo. Ultegra is a lot of bang for the buck! The main factor as others have pointed out is the bike fit. Also, does it handle well, e.g., not too twitchy and is it stable on steep descents... that is if you have any in your area. The stem and saddle are important and can easily be swapped out by your dealer. You may also want to consider a professional fitting, especially if you are willing to spend some big bucks on a bike. It usually runs about $75 and will be a very helpful evaluation of the correct bike geometry and size for you. Yes...size does matter"!  :  )

There is also the matter of bike material; aluminum (cheapest), steel, carbon fiber (most popular), titanium and some other exotics. Many cyclists (including yours truly) consider having a good set of wheels more important than having higher end components, since rotating mass can easily negate any benefits of a lighter frame and lighter components. Having a good wheels can make all the difference in handling, climbing and acceleration. (What can I say, I have been doing this for sometime.) Often, lower end bikes are sold with crappy wheels, so beware!

You can check out roadbikereview.com for actual consumer reviews of bikes and components. "Yelp" can also help for reviews on local bike shops. And don't overlook the 2011 bikes, since you can get some killer deals. Most bike shops should offer at least a year of free service with a purchase.

In the end, if you just want to have a bike for "fun", then whichever bike feels the most fun to you during a test ride, is the bike for you! Good luck and I hope that I did not confuse you!

Glenn

[jackman]

My experience is similar to Ladydog's (he has more experience than me and is much older ).  Bicycle fit is the most important aspect of comfortable and enjoyable riding.  This includes frame size, positioning on the bike, cleat positioning on shoes, the type of shoes you get, saddle positioing, the saddle you choose, bar to saddle drop, stem size, etc. 

In my riding group there are guys who ride on steel frames, aluminum, high end CF, titanium, etc.  From modest older rides with thousands of miles to exotic custom CF.  The happiest guys are the ones with the best fit.  They also train the most and are the fastest.  Nothing sadder or more pathetic than a fat dude on a shiny new Colnago or Cervelo with Dura Ace or Campy Record getting dropped by a pack of guys on modest rides. 

There is nothing wrong with 105 or even Sram Apex.  If the bike is well tuned, Di2 and Red will not make a slow rider any faster.  Neither will a 15lb bike.  I know this because I get dropped all the time by guys in my group who ride 22lb+ bikes with cheap wheels.  Proper fit and comfort will enhance your enjoyment more than anything else, IMO.  You will train longer and harder and get faster if your bike is comfortable and fits you well. 

tood luck!

Jack

[LadyDog]

Alright George, inquiring minds want to know.  How did the weekend go?  Thoughts on what you rode?  Any others in the running.

Thanks for the time.

[zybar]

Jeff,

I threw my back out and I am barely able to walk, let alone ride.   

This is the worst it has felt since I herniated a couple of discs around 8 years ago.

Luckily for me, it happened as I was getting ready to go out for a ride and not during the ride.

I'll keep you posted on next steps once the back heals up enough for me to ride.

George

[jackman]

Yikes!  I hope your back gets better soon!

This brings up an imporant consideration regarding your new bike.  Racing bikes are very sexy but not a comfortable choice for those of us who lack Lance's flexibility.  I love the looks of race bikes like the Tarmac, Madone and most Cervelo models.  The big saddle to bar drop always wows the folks at Bicycleforums.com and looks cool.  After testing several race bikes, I came to the conclusion that I'd rather have a bike I can ride for hours without any comfort issues. 

Fortunately, every bike company makes a model with "comfort" or "endurance" geometry.  The Specialized Roubaix, Cannondale Synapse, and new Trek Domane are all very cool.  They are stiff where it counts, handle really well, are lightweight, but shorter top tubes, longer head tubes and generally have longer wheelbase.  They also have slack(er) seat and head tube angles and longer seat stays.  The ride is less twitchy than a pro style bike and generally more comfortable for most riders.  I've tested most of these bikes (the ones from the major manufacturers) and each has strengths and weaknesses.   They all have beefy bottom brackets and are stiff where it counts but comfortable enough for long rides.  Make sure you get a bike with gemoetry that will be comfortable, especially with your back condition.

I only say this because it's very easy to be lured by the looks of a bike or by the fact that your favorite pro rider just won a stage on it.  I'll never have the flexibility of any of the guys in the tour and, although I lust after some of the cool bikes those guys are riding, I know that I would not be happy on one long-term.  My friend let me ride his Scott Addict recently and it was a beautiful bike.  Ultra light (around 15 lbs) and the new SRAM Red was very sweet shifting.  The bike was unfortunately very stiff and had a very short head tube.  There is no way I could live with this bike for anything more than short rides around the neighborhood or sprints.  On chip and seal roads, I imagine it would not be enjoyable. 

Good luck with the back and the search. 

J

[zybar]

Jackman,

Even before the back issue flared up, comfort and the ability to ride the bike for a few hours at a time were must haves for any new purchase; along with a higher level of performance.

I hear ya about getting seduced by the sexy racing bikes.  With the money I am potentially spending, I want to get it all!  The only way I can do this is by riding the different bikes and determining what works and what doesn't.  I need to be patient (not exactly my strong suit) and do my homework and roadwork. 

George

[ted_b]

George, I am so sorry about the back.  I am intimately aware of what you are going through, unfortunately.  Take it very slow.  And try frozen compresses when you can.  25-30 minutes directly against your back, seated upright, with feet up on a small foot stool. (I found bar stool height with small foot stool was perfect for my 30 min of ice)

Don't let those percosets trick you into making a poor bicycle decision. 

[jackman]

Jackman,

Even before the back issue flared up, comfort and the ability to ride the bike for a few hours at a time were must haves for any new purchase; along with a higher level of performance.

I hear ya about getting seduced by the sexy racing bikes.  With the money I am potentially spending, I want to get it all!  The only way I can do this is by riding the different bikes and determining what works and what doesn't.  I need to be patient (not exactly my strong suit) and do my homework and roadwork. 

George

Very cool.  I have a friend with an S-Works Roubaix and it is awesome.  He's a very fast rider and loves the bike.  It has great handling and is very comfortable.  The bottom bracket area is very beefy and the matte black paint is my favorite.  Modern endurance or performance geometry bikes are excellent.  They have most of the benefits of race bikes and are comfortable. 

Your approach is the right one.  Ride everything and make a decision.  Another bike I would add to the mix is a Lynskey.  They are very well built, lightweight and great handling.  They make several models and are available as custom frames.  I'm pretty standard in terms of my build and requirements but if you have short legs or a long torso, maybe a custom build would be best for you.  Titanium frames like Lynskey last a long time and are not as expensive as some exotic brands.  I think my next bike will be a Lynskey!

Just take care of that back before you do anything.  Lots of guys in my group do yoga and pilates.  That might be something to think about.  Plus, there are loads of hot chicks in the classes...just sayin.

[zybar]

Very cool.  I have a friend with an S-Works Roubaix and it is awesome.  He's a very fast rider and loves the bike.  It has great handling and is very comfortable.  The bottom bracket area is very beefy and the matte black paint is my favorite.  Modern endurance or performance geometry bikes are excellent.  They have most of the benefits of race bikes and are comfortable. 

Your approach is the right one.  Ride everything and make a decision.  Another bike I would add to the mix is a Lynskey.  They are very well built, lightweight and great handling.  They make several models and are available as custom frames.  I'm pretty standard in terms of my build and requirements but if you have short legs or a long torso, maybe a custom build would be best for you.  Titanium frames like Lynskey last a long time and are not as expensive as some exotic brands.  I think my next bike will be a Lynskey!

Just take care of that back before you do anything.  Lots of guys in my group do yoga and pilates.  That might be something to think about.  Plus, there are loads of hot chicks in the classes...just sayin.

My flexibility also sucks.  I know that certainly doesn't help.  I probably need to at least get better in that area.

I have heard good things about Lynskey bikes and will see if there are any local dealers.  Any particular models to investigate?

The down side to being home and resting up...spending time on ebay looking at bikes.   

Must resist:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230817963893?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_1413

George

[zybar]

George, I am so sorry about the back.  I am intimately aware of what you are going through, unfortunately.  Take it very slow.  And try frozen compresses when you can.  25-30 minutes directly against your back, seated upright, with feet up on a small foot stool. (I found bar stool height with small foot stool was perfect for my 30 min of ice)

Don't let those percosets trick you into making a poor bicycle decision. 

Not to sidetrack my thread, but I thought heat was the way to go, not ice? 

George