Pulling the trigger on Technics

bogiedr · « **on:** 19 Jun 2012, 10:46 pm »

Ok, I have posted about various "potential purchases" and for one or another reason

gotten cold feet and still only have the Luxman px 100. I think I am ready to add that second table. For $100 I can pick up an SL 1300 that looks to be in excellent shape. It is the right age I seek for my vintage system. Been considering a Thorens TD 160, but the Technics keeps harping at me saying, "best of that mid-70's generation of tables". Hopefully what I am about to ask is not horrific to most of you ... can I change the arm in the 1300 for something like a Black Widow, or something close to that time period, or do I leave it alone? It appears that the RCA connectors and the arm wiring has been updated on this table ... any concerns there?

Also whatever cartdrige it has, ( I think it is a Shure), will be replaced either by a MC cartdrige or my Clearaudio Aurum from the Lux and the Lux getting a new cart, maybe an Ortofon Red? Opinions please as I am just about sure I am pulling the trigger

Thanks everybody.

tomytoons · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 Jun 2012, 11:26 pm »

In my opinion, the TD 160 is a better table so is a SL1300 "MKII" version. The Technics was not intended to be able to change the arm. On the 160 it's possible. But for $100 in great condition you probably could not go wrong.
For a couple hundred dollars more there are a lot of nice used tables out there.

neobop · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Jun 2012, 01:53 am »

Period piece? interesting approach. I agree that replacing the arm might be more trouble than it's worth on a 35 yr old automatic table. I'm sure it can be done, but the Black Widow isn't appropriate for the CA cart, maybe the 2M Red would work - still not worth the effort. I think you ought to consider it as-is, which would be better with the MC anyway. Is there any other difference between the 1300 and 1300II, other than servo vs quartz lock? If the Technics is working 100% you could probably fill up the base with modeling clay and have a nice '70s be-in.

How come you're not using carts from the '70s? There were some good ones.

bogiedr · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Jun 2012, 12:24 pm »

Thanks for the comments folks. Neobop, just not sure what 70's cart would give me the best sound on one of these tables!

Miney · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Jun 2012, 01:45 pm »

I might be inclined to hit on this.

neobop · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Jun 2012, 02:39 pm »

It depends on the type of cart you're considering. Many HO carts (MM/MI lines) reached their pinnacle with 4-ch optimisation. For example, an AT-14, AT-15/20, or AT-170ML are considered better than anything they make today with HO (in price ranges). Their Signet line also had some excellent carts like the TK7E, TK10ML. Some went beyond the '70s though. I think some other lines like Grado, benefited from further development. There are quite a few of those various vintage lines. Grace, Technics, B & O, Astatic, Acutex, ADC, Empire, AKG, etc all had exceptional HO carts.

I don't think the same applies to LOMC though. In general, back then they were overly expensive and poor trackers. If memory serves, many got much better in the '80s when advanced tips/cantilevers and competition demanded higher performance. I'm sure there are exceptions, but today you can get a LOMC for a few hundred that's pretty nice.

If you wanted a great vintage cart for the Technics, avoid super high compliance like a Sonus Blue. That would be better on a Black Widow. The same probably goes for B & O or any other with very high cu. You'd probably be able to get something like a Signet TK5 or 7E, or an AT-14S for reasonable money and have an eminently listenable cart. Replacement styli are still available. Some say a TK-7E with 15/20SS tip is great. Some of those on the vintage list above might be expensive.

neobop · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Jun 2012, 03:13 pm »

Quote from: Miney on 23 Jun 2012, 01:45 pm

I might be inclined to hit on this.

Not sure if that's '70s or early '80s, if that makes a difference. Seller dropped the price to $215 incl shipping. Looks like he waited for the supply of NOS to dry up to make a profit or now get his money back. There seems to be much love for this cart. It's no longer NOS though. Some say the LT is brighter than the E. I never heard one.

bogiedr · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Jun 2012, 11:58 pm »

Neobop, I found my Signet TK1Ea, perfectly packed away. This is the cartdrige that was replaced by the Clearaudio Aurum Wood currently playing in the Luxman PX 100. Thinking of the new vintage table ...
Instead of buying the Technics SL1300, I found a 1500 for a really good price. Thinking of using the Signet TK1Ea with the 1500, getting the Ortofon Red for the Lux and selling the Clearudio. Think the CA will sell?

neobop · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Jun 2012, 01:49 pm »

Hey Bogie,
Well, the 1500 looks more like it. Manual table with 5.5 lb platter and alum die cast base. Just make sure it's working 100%, if you can check it out first. Speed issues are of primary concern and of course no wobble. Looks like MKI is servo and MKII is quartz locked. Speed should look dead on. If it's a MKI, make sure the speed control works right and doesn't stick. If it sticks, sometimes it just needs to be cleaned, but sometimes circuitry could need parts replacement.

What's up with the Clearaudio, don't like it? It should sound way better on the Technics arm than the Luxman.
Personally, I'd put the Signet on the Luxman. Either of those carts can be upgraded with a new stylus. The Signet can take any modern AT-120/440 type stylus. Your Aurum (Classic?) has the same generator as my Virtuoso. You could put any AT-95 replacement stylus on there. If you're going to keep it on the Luxman use an AT-92E stylus - fleabey $25 for the entire cart. Stylus replacement on the Aurum will require cutting back at least some of the plastic holder on the 92E. You can cut it down to the plug and make it look like the orig stylus. See the AT-95 vs Clearaudio thread.

If you still don't like the CA, IMO you should ask for suggestions before getting the Red.

bogiedr · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Jun 2012, 01:52 am »

Daggumitt, I was outbidded at EpRay for the Technics 1500 ... so I am now considering a Linn LP 12 or any Micro Seiki

, maybe a Sota? help with reccomendations? the Signet is still going on the Luxman, so now the question is, what vintage, (1975 / 1984) table do we get? Kenwood? Pioneer? Marantz? Or is Sota, Linn, or Micro Seiki a better options?

Danberg · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Jun 2012, 02:22 am »

I am the original owner of a Kenwood KD-550 direct drive turntable, original "S" Kenwood arm and a couple of shure cartridges that I would consider selling (purchased new in 1977). It has a "resin concrete" base.

If you are interested in it, PM me.

neobop · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Jun 2012, 02:10 pm »

Quote from: bogiedr on 29 Jun 2012, 01:52 am

Daggumitt, I was outbidded at EpRay for the Technics 1500 ... so I am now considering a Linn LP 12 or any Micro Seiki , maybe a Sota? help with reccomendations? the Signet is still going on the Luxman, so now the question is, what vintage, (1975 / 1984) table do we get? Kenwood? Pioneer? Marantz? Or is Sota, Linn, or Micro Seiki a better options?

At first glance I thought you were all over the place with this post, but the period aspect really changes things. A pre '85 Linn might not be a good idea, depending. There was no VPI before '85 and I don't think there was a Sota. Unless the Linn has improvements like a Valhalla board and other expensive mods, I'd pass. I owned one ('85) and IMO it really depends on your sensitivity to speed fluctuations. That might sound elitist, but it's true. Some people aren't bothered by this while others are practically driven crazy. I thought you might be of the latter group, being used to DD. That's why I didn't say anything about the TD-160, a pretty decent belt drive.

Depending on your sensitivities, IMO you should seriously consider Danberg's KD-550. That resin base is crushed limestone mixed with polyester and is very effective. The platter is 3.3 lb die cast alum, and servo controlled. The arm would be good for your Aurum and is easily replaced if you choose to.

Other than that I don't know what to say. There are plenty of vintage tables that are good, but I thought you were in a less expensive price range than even an old LP-12. I don't think Linn had a less expensive table pre '85. In the past couple of yrs I've see nice models Micro Seiki, JVC, Denon, Thorens etc going for 400 - 600. I keep thinking of alternatives, but they're after '84.

Edit: I think I got mixed up with the time thing regarding VPI/Sota. This doesn't change my recommendations though unless you're prepared to spend some money upgrading.

bogiedr · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Jun 2012, 02:21 am »

Dan, PM sent

Neo, I should have posted the time frame much earlier ... that is what drives this little project of mine. My Luxman table is great, a Micro Seiki in Luxman disguise ... so i am trying to get to the "next level 70's / 80's" table, which could be a s "inexpensive" as a seriously ridiculous Technics, a Bad ass kenwood, (can you say Dan's Kenwood), or an expensive ready modded Sota. I appreciate your input on Linn, it has been a bucket list thing, but not sure it is the right table for this project. A Technics, Kenwood table seems more like it. Let's see how this ends up. Again thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it!!

doug s. · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Jun 2012, 05:51 am »

killer deal on a technics, right here on a/c:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=107636.0

it might even give a wintage empire a good run...

doug s.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Jun 2012, 11:16 am »

Quote from: bogiedr on 30 Jun 2012, 02:21 am

Dan, PM sent
Neo, I should have posted the time frame much earlier ... that is what drives this little project of mine. My Luxman table is great, a Micro Seiki in Luxman disguise ...

Uh, no. A Luxman is a Micro Seiki in disguise!

I've owned a MS DD table that I really enjoyed and have owned 2 of their arms. Great stuff!