[Racer X]

I just spent a week with the M2 and came away very Impressed.It had a nice look with its silver aluminum sides and black front panel and carbon fiber top.the form factor is the same as the M1 and Sensation.

The equipment used to listen on we're Virtue Audio Sensation with Dood tube buffer, and Psvane 12ax7 tube, Clarity MR Caps running on batteries. The Cd player I compared it to was a Onyx Cd 5 and  Speakers were Zu Audio Soul Superflys and a pair of Onyix  Strata Minis.

Immediate impressions were that the M2 had much better bass then the Onyx and even more noticeable was the increased separation between the instruments and more top end extension without being bright. A slight difference in tone slightly warm but more involving and I found my self  just wanting to enjoy listening and not wanting to compare after a couple of minutes, the onyx was no competition.

Next came  a call to my friend Michaael Hi Fi and asked if he was up to comparing It the M2 to his Oppo digital bp 95 Michael always up for to listening to something new.

Michael has quite a nice system consisting  of the Oppo 95 Decware mini tori and an Alnac preamp Gr-Research Super Vs and all the other goodies to complete the system.

We plugged the M2 into Michaels system and listened to a few tracks  then switched to the Oppo we felt that the M2 had a wider soundstage  but back a few rows compared to the Oppo when we installed the M2  I had brought over some virtue audio nirvana cables that were brand new  because I didn't know if Michael had enough cables  to plug into tha preamp so we could switch back and forth. When Michael found out the cables were new he felt the comparison wasn't fair so he went through  his stas a came up with a pair of 350.00 pair of Mac cables that he felt were equal to what was on the Oppo,after another listen we felt the M2 had better separation of instruments on the top end and a more Organic tone.  We made a switch to LP for a few minutes  then back to the Oppo witch we felt was quite a bit more dynamic then the M2,  we felt the M2 fel about half way between the dynamics of the Oppo and the LP I found the M2 easier to just listen to especially on lesser quality recordings.

For the final we plugged the M2 into my EE Mini Max with op amps that have been rolled we ran it without the tube in this scenario the M2 Mini Max combo outclassed the Oppo in all areas.

In ending what I enjoyed most about the M2 was I. Just wanted to listen to it and not care about compairing it to anything else  and that's what i did after the first fews hours.

[Racer X]

I forgot to mention that once the cables were changed the M2 matched the Oppo in all the areas except dynamics but I preferred the warmth and more LP like presentation of M2 and we felt the M2 bettered the Oppo was overall superior and as a side note we tried a antique monster cable optical cable from the EE into the M2 and then the dynamics were equal to the Oppo but I still preferred the the  more LP like sound from the RCA.

[virtue]

RacerX, thanks for spending so much time with the M2 and taking her through her paces!!!

[Rclark]

 I got to spend some time with the wonderful Virtue Audio M2 prototype and enjoyed it paired with my battery powered Virtue Audio Two.2 amplifier quite a bit.

 The M2 prototype has a beautiful thick slab of carbon fiber over the hood, flat, brushed metal sides, and a plain but purposeful front end. The rear of the case reveals very high quality connectors, the IEC being a high end model, very stiff, and takes a bit of effort to connect. Sitting next to my Erc-2, same rack height for both, the M2 is much smaller and more compact. This may be due to the fact that the Emotiva unit was designed to have all internal units separated from each other to eliminate any component interference, and all stages have their own separate power supplies. This takes space, hence, the ERC-2 is a full sized unit and in terms of width and length dwarfs the M2 player. The Emotiva has a few additional features, as it is a fully differential, balanced unit, which I have yet to try, it also has AES/EBU and XLR connectivity. For those space conscious, they may prefer the M2, and paired with the TWO, is quite a relatively diminutive combo. You could easily place them side by side on one shelf and the options for customizing the look are vast.

Generally I don’t prefer tray loading systems, as they are, well, breakable. Virtue knows this, and the tray will only stay open for a few seconds if no action is taken. The disc loads quickly. There is no autoplay. Motor noise is audible at low music volumes but is not too detrimental.

 Seth has said with this model he aimed for a  tubelike, vinyl sound, and I did find the unit to be more laid back compared to my Emotiva ERC-2. They had similar levels of detail, however the Emotiva is more revealing, has a broader dynamic range, capable of playing way up high, cleanly, and has a more neutral, cleaner presentation with more soundstage width and depth. The M2 prototype by comparison is consistently darker (my very first, immediate impression), a bit veiled, to where the Emotiva would be very clean and black between notes, and the highs of the M2 are rolled off compared to the Emotiva (noticed immediately as well). However I have come to understand that lots of people prefer this style of sound the M2 produces. I am learning that I am in the “neutral and revealing” camp. With the ERC-2, tracks with lots of dynamics will have that searing top end, the M2 is definitely mellower. The ERC-2 is more true to source, the M2 has a predefined sound, to my ears. The M2 still very very crisp and clean and detailed, but not so by comparison to the other player. Both had similar levels of (positively excellent) 3D dimensionality but I found this quality to be further emphasized on the Emotiva.

 The M2 is extremely pleasant sounding when one just settles in and listens. It has bass that, to me, although a bit pumped up (eq’d sounding), lends a touch more punch to the bass, a touch more “pfft pfft” on the drums. I’ve found that I prefer to have a flatter, fuller sound, with all the upper end shimmer included, but for someone who listens to a lot of hip hop, or blues, etc, the M2 would fit the bill for sure. Those who listen to classical music, or jazz, any sort of music with lots of top end may find the M2 to lack that upper end crispness and shimmer. The Emotiva unit has plenty of bass, and on my Magnepans, presents extremely realistic upright bass. The M2 is similar here, but just seems to be a bit more pumped up in the midbass region. Still, very musical and enjoyable. However, Seth has suggested that the M2 is more a standalone unit that will appeal to those looking for a more laid back, vinyl like sound, and the upcoming dac, will have a more neutral character.

 Although I kept my listening to a mere handful of discs in order to be most accurate in comparing, I think the M2 will be more forgiving of bad recordings, which many will find to be a big plus. I’d rather hear the undiluted bad recording than to have it spread over with a butter knife. Others prefer differently. And that’s why we have so many options.

 I am not one who ascribes to cables, but just to appease the curious, the interconnects used were my MacUltra Silver+, FWIW, *shrugs*.  I refuse to play the cable game, and plan to have a complete balanced system anyway, with plain vanilla, good quality, XLR and AES/EBU cables all throughout to the amps.

  One of the best parts about this player is that you can customize the exterior to fit any décor, and will have correspondingly FAR HIGHER WAF than any other player I can think of, although the Emotiva unit has a very refined fascia: brushed metal face, metal buttons, laser etched calligraphy, a more refined level of lighting (both have blue lights!). Side by side, the Emotiva clearly looks better from the front, to me. The M2 looks better from above due to the customizable roof and side panels.

The M2 prototype does what it does very well, and will be worth every penny and more. For those who find the attributes appealing: consistently warm, laid back, slightly punchy in the bass, eminently customizable, compact size, they will love this player.

I really enjoyed listening to the M2 prototype and look forward to hearing the upcoming DAC. I know that Seth is continuing to tweak this player, and we may have a different version, should the M2 launch.

Speakers: Magnestand Magnepan MMG’s with Jupiter caps/Mundorf Silver in Oil bypass.
Attenuation: Warpspeed ldr on batteries
Amp: battery powered Virtue Two.2 with ClarityCap mod, hipassed and preamp permanently disabled.


test albums:

Jimi Hendrix, Valleys of Neptune
Miles Davis, Kind of Blue
Dire Straits, Brothers in Arms
Emotiva Demo Disc

 

[Rclark]

 Forgot to mention remotes. The ERC-2 has a large all metal remote with metal buttons that are laid out in an intuitive fashion (great for low light), the M2 remote is plastic, but is lighter and smaller. The buttons are not intuitive at a glance, and will take some time to learn. Otherwise, both work great and can be used from odd angles.

[virtue]

Great review! 

Would you characterize the M2 as a bit more laid back overall?

Sounds like in your system some of the ERC-2 smoked the M2.  That's useful feedback.  Their designs tend to be solid, Chinese OEM and super high value.  That's sort of how we started and what we wanted to do originally. 

The Emotiva cases are not to my taste (I prefer art-deco than disco) and if one starts with a preference for their style a priori, paying more for ours is going to be a hard swallow.  It costs more to make the Melissa enclosure (their metal remote is obviously more expensive than our plastic one... and our metal one costs me a bundle -- it's hogged out aluminum).

Just to be clear... is that unit a slot loader?  I really like that approach as well and asked for it with the M2 -- no dice.

I DO appreciate the critical feedback.  Here's why...  We're a long way from M2 production and still have time to make decisions about features, market positioning, improvements, and or project cancellation.  Our financial position just doesn't give us the flexibility any more to produce products that **might** sell.  Good, bad, or ugly, honest feedback will keep Virtue in business!

Can't wait to hear what Marvin has to say...

Seth

[Rclark]

 Thanks Seth, and thanks again for letting me play with it. It's a really cool little unit!

 "Would you characterize the M2 as a bit more laid back overall?"

Maybe not overall, the main thing I noticed was the highs. I played that Jimi Hendrix cd over and over again and the main differences were the darker presentation (I finally understand what this term means, I could hear it), and as RacerX pointed out, the more laid back dynamics. On the ERC-2, when Jimi's solo's begin to wail up into the higher ranges, you'd get that squelching, searing guitar tone, and on the M2 this was subdued. Even the title track, Valleys of Neptune, starts off with some shimmery, detailed cymbals, and again, same difference between players. I played these tracks over and over again, swapping interconnects and going right to the same songs.

 The M2 prototype is an excellent player, but I was surprised that the ERC-2 was able to hold ground. However, as you said, these are preferences, and maybe someone else would more likely prefer the M2 sound. And yes, a slot loader.

[marvda1]

just received the m2 today.....interesting........tubes vs. ss ?????? as in sound vs. the m1.

[bardamu]

Hello,
Is it very hard to make it possible to play blu ray and dvd as well with just a simple stereo left/right cinch to connect to my sensation and a hdmi to connect it to my plasma screen so i will not feel the temptation to dump my panasonic blu ray and my popcorn c200 mediaplayer  ( oooh maybe i will need that one for my m2ts converted files )  The oppo can cope with these.
That is what i like about the sensation. It has just the things i need for my set-up. 80hertz filter, remote, multiple inputs. The oppo has a lot of things i will NEVER use.
The oppo has an okay price for me but i understand i am paying a lot for all the extra gimmicks.
Maybe just go for the new virtue dac?  But i will need a proper down mix from 5.1 7.1 9.1 Will be 11.1 when the dac is ready for sure. Did hear some music with some highly regarded audio video amps with a cubic meter of speakers connected in a shop. Even with your favorite music playing it makes you pee.
Sincere greetings, Edward

[marvda1]

                                  My Time With The Piano M2
First off let me give props to the Piano M1, when I received the M1 to review upon first listen I knew I had to have  it.  At the time I was going to replace my source with a $2600 Raysonic tube cdp that I could get a good price on but after hearing the M1 I got a great sounding cd player and saved a ton of money to boot.
The M2 arrived doubled boxed and in good condition.
Seth’s goal was get a tube/vinyl sound out of the M2, the question is did he achieve this goal.  Upon first listen to the M2 as regard to sound vs. the M1 my thoughts were solid state vs. tube but which was solid state and which was tube?
The system I used to evaluate the two cd players is as follows:
Preamp:  Belles 21a
Amp:  Usher R-1.5
Speakers:  Usher 6381
Dac:  Grant Fidelity TubeDac -11
Interconnects:  Mg Audio Design Planus Cu, KCI prototype coaxial
Speaker Cables:  Mg Audio Design Planus I
Power Cables:
  Belles – 6 Sons Audio Thunderbird
  Usher – 6 Sons Audio Windigo
  Cd Players – Virtual Dynamics Testament
  Dac – Pangea AC- 14se
Here are some non-audio things that I noticed:
1.           M2 opens much faster but they close about the same speed.
2.   M2 closes automatically after about 30 seconds if left open.
3.   After closing the M2 reads disc faster.
4.   Iec plug on the M2 fits much tighter.

Sound stage:  The M2 starts a little behind the speakers with a much more laid back sound as opposed to the M1 with it’s up front and center presentation.  On the plane of the sound stage the M2 is balanced with no one area sticking out however every now and then something will stick out in the high end detail like the old 3d movies where something jumps out at you from different parts of the screen .   the wow factor is there at first but it seemed to distract me from the overall enjoyment of the music.
The M1 has the midrange up front in front of the speakers with the bass a little behind the mids and the highs a little behind the bass which makes the highs sound recessed or rolled off.  It’s a big shock going from one to the other.

Highs:   Highs on the M1 seem a little covered up by the midrange but is more forgiving.  The M1 highs seem to approach the top of the fence while the M2 sometimes sits on top of the fence and sometimes crosses over the top.  The M2 with its overall balanced sound does give some more details.

Midrange:  M2 too laid back for me, the M1 is up front with great tonality and detail and excitement that the m2 just cannot match.

Bass:  The bass on the M2 is tighter and clearer sounding where you can hear low level bass detail whereas the bass of the M1 is a fatter sounding bass.  The bass of the M1 adds more foundation to the sound of the piano and upright bass where you can feel the body of the instrument.

I added the Grant Fidelity Tube Dac-11 to the M1 and the highs were much improved while retaining the midrange of the M1 and cleaning up the bass more.  This combo I preferred to the M2.

Conclusion:  As far as solid state vs. tube sound, the M1 is tube and the M2 is solid state.  The TubeDac-11 improved on the weaknesses of the M1 and the combo still out performed the M2.  If I were buying new I don’t think the M2 would move me to purchase it as the M1 did and I would not trade my M1 for the M2 but I would look into getting a dac to improve the sound of the M1.  The TubeDac-11 is only $350 in stock form.

Seth, any thought of offering a M1+ with maybe upgraded caps and power supply and maybe wiring?

[virtue]

Marvin,

I REALLY appreciate the time you've taken to compare and contrast the two models.  You're the first reviewer to have both units in-house.

It's a bit unfortunate that the M1 used such "old-school" parts and my OEM refuses to do another run of it -- or else this would have been settled long ago.  It's so interesting that in your system a 20 year old chip-set (literally) out-performs a state-of-the-art setup.  Cool.

All right... we'll keep the unit on tour until our DAC comes out and then we'll see whether any old CD-player hooked up to our DAC sounds any better.  I do like the M2 but not enough to lose money on it... we'll see how others like it.

Seth

[marvda1]

seth, what chipset does the m2 use?  the grant fidelity tubedac-11 uses the Cirrus Logic CS4398 chip .

[virtue]

M2 uses the AD1852 DAC and the (upgradeable) AD712 output filter.

[eclein]

Seth you mentioned the manufacturer of the M1 "refuses to do another run of it" any reason why that you can share with us? Is it getting the components to build it that forces that position? Maybe I'm naive but I thought an OEM would take as much business as possible to stay as close to full factory capacity as possible for as long as possible- am I missing something.

 Seth I know you would build more M1's if possible or at least I think you would, no way to move it to another plant, is it cost prohibitive?

[virtue]

Ed,

It is my understanding that certain chips in the old design are no longer available.   Also, the M2 shares many parts with their other production models.  So they don't want to maintain a second inventory of M1 aux parts at the same time.  They've moved on and are insisting that I do as well.

This is a heartbreak for me because the M1 took 2 years to develop and still had transport problems.  Remember, the first production was entirely retrofitted before it shipped to me.  I would not accept more M1s "as-is" (with the flaky transport) when they would make them for me because servicing them is too expensive.  They sent us replacement/upgrade transports recently that do work.  Where were these 2 years ago?  I have no more piss in me to spill over this -- it's the past.

It's ashame that the reviewers so far aren't thrilled with the sound of the new setup.  I quite liked it and the M2 unit is technically "better," more reliable, supports a tube buffer add-in, 2 other S/PDIF inputs, and is more extensible and reusable across models.   Having the volume control internally is a big plus from the standpoint of pairing it with power amps.

Frankly, I just not sure if we'll continue to invest in the M2 if there is no market for it.  Every tweak costs at least $1,000 and three months just to try out.  That and production runs won't work without my coming up with at least $60,000 in advance.

Seth

[bardamu]

Hello,
The tripath chip is old school too or not?
Maybe the m2 could be tweaked by the owner? If there are some caps, going from the typical plastic cap to an oldfashioned paper in oil could be an improvement for one and a deception for another.
It seems not everybody has the same priorities. Some people prefer lots of detail, analytic sound. I would like it to be melodic too. I mean melodic at first.
If i start singing along ( i can't sing ) it is good. It has to be the right mix. With the sensation the mix is there but like a good soup some people would always ad some spices because they aren't on the table without a reason.
Sincere greetings, edward

[virtue]

For all of its flaws, Tripath has a loyal following and that will continue and I will continue making Tripath amps.

Likewise, the TDA1543 has a loyal following -- in part for its imperfections perhaps.

There are a handful of levers to pull on the M2, for sure.  If producing 200 of them were easy, I'd be tempted to put it out there and see what improvements folks came up with. 

Edward, I'm sure you'd have fun with it although I'd never see it in one piece again    Would a few tweaks allow me to sell it against the state-of-the-art OPPO... or even our own DAC?  Not sure.

Let's see what Adam thinks and we'll plan next steps.

[bardamu]

Hello,
The m901 works well and could be made better. The tripath chip makes it works well so you better keep using it.
My dac has a 1541 but it works. Maybe it will be surpassed by a future virtue dac we will see.
I am using a seperate rega transport. I like the toploading.
I never did hear the oppo. I just want a blu ray with a musical high definition stereo output. It seems the oppo can do that.
If your seperate dac is better. Maybe one day i will get one. The problem is that i want it to be able to cope with all these different kind of audio formats that come along with dvd and blu ray and turn them into a very decent stereo output. But usually it will haver the gimmicks i am not looking for.
The only thing i did do with my dac is place it in a stainless steel, lead and tar dampened '' tray '' filled with about 18 kilogrammes dried sand.
The sensation cannot be damped because there is a ver sturdy connection between the board the heatsink. Mine doesn't get hot, not even warm. Maybe one day i will put a heatsink up in the air and put the board on some rubber grommets.
Sincere gereetings, Edward

[eclein]

Thanks Seth, I understand now.....maybe jump full bore on the DAC and don't look back, Jack!!!!!

[abernardi]

You crack me up Edward.  I can only imagine what your Sensation will end up looking like!