CBS Open Back

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 5372 times.

matevana

CBS Open Back
« on: 16 Jun 2012, 01:49 pm »
After completing a rather complex 3-way Open Back design, I wanted to design a satisfying, inexpensive alternative that could be built by anyone on a budget. Enter the CBS (Couldn't be Simpler) project.

Design goals:

All aluminum, high resolution drivers.
True Dipole throughout frequency range
No mid range suck-out experienced with many larger woofer, 2-way designs
Satisfying low end
Take advantage of AV receiver's existing electronic x/o
No additional passive shaping components



The drivers mount to a 3/4" MDF baffle measuring 24" tall by 10" wide. The woofer is mounted low to  address floor-bounce and angled 5 degrees toward the listener. The full range driver is centered both horizontally and vertically on the baffle. The system is supported at 3 points using sorbothane pads. There is virtually no baffle noise at moderate volume.



A rather impressive Peerless 830987 3" all aluminum driver handles the full range duty at a cost of around $24 US per driver. Low frequencies are handled admirably by a HiVi M8N 8" all aluminum woofer, with an xmax of around 6mm, an Fs of 33 Hz and a measured Qts of around 55. This driver retails around $45 US. 

As part of the minimalist concept, I run the Peerless driver from an A/V Receiver in pure direct mode (tone controls bypassed). The receiver's speaker type is set to small. The crossover frequency is set at 200 Hz. I use a single small plate amp to drive both HiVi woofers in parallel at a 4 ohm total load. The plate's crossover frequency is dialed-in to meet the roll-off of the Peerless driver and the level is matched accordingly. While this is clearly the most critical part of the setup, it can be done in a matter of minutes, with or without test equipment. I prefer plate amps that attenuate their slope at a rate of 24dB per octave, but I have also achieved good results with others at 12dB/oct.

Listening impressions are as follows: They have no right to sound this good, being so simple and inexpensive. The midrange is very authentic and low mids are driven with authority. Presentation is balanced and enveloping, especially with many jazz and classical CD's that have an emphasis on acoustic instruments. The timbre of both woodwind and brass instruments are also realistic. Vocal presentation is once again natural with no smearing. Resolution is high and they appear to image well. The peerless drivers crossed at 200Hz sound very comfortable in their skin, never straining or compressing at moderate levels.

This is my 2nd project using the Peerless 830987 drivers, and they continue to impress!
 

 

-Richard-

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 853
Re: CBS Open Back
« Reply #1 on: 16 Jun 2012, 04:16 pm »
Hi matevana ~

Very nice set up... I am deeply impressed with your generous willingness to share the details of this very inexpensive but apparently very impressive sounding OB solution.

Question: what is the role of the high baffle area that extends over the 3" wide-range driver?

Did you have a chance to experiment with a lower extended area over the 3" driver and found that less desirable sonically... if so how did it sound?

Again... I am very impressed with this very reasonable solution to the OB paradigm... very well thought out and "simple"... simplicity always translates to me as elegant.

With Warmest Regards ~ Richard

fredgarvin

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1337
Re: CBS Open Back
« Reply #2 on: 16 Jun 2012, 06:52 pm »
I too am curious about how you decided where to place the drivers, geometrically. Besides floor bounce, I know there is literature supporting the thought that increased baffle length under the woofer increases bass output. Your design is simple and elegant. Nice.

studiotech

Re: CBS Open Back
« Reply #3 on: 17 Jun 2012, 05:26 am »
So, you're running the woofers mono crossed in below 200Hz?  Simple is good, but that's a big mistake for the sake of simplicity.

Greg

matevana

Re: CBS Open Back
« Reply #4 on: 17 Jun 2012, 03:09 pm »
Hi matevana ~

Very nice set up... I am deeply impressed with your generous willingness to share the details of this very inexpensive but apparently very impressive sounding OB solution.

Question: what is the role of the high baffle area that extends over the 3" wide-range driver?

----------------

Hi Richard and thanks for your comments. Being that the full range driver is crossed at 200Hz, it would seem that the additional baffle height is not required to prevent cancellation in it's range.  While this is largely true, the design also includes a 5 degree tilt to help compensate for the floor mount design and lower than ideal driver placement. On a hard floor such as tile, I was getting some additional reflections from the rear of the drivers which were inclined towards the floor. The additional baffle height seemed to reduce this in chip board mock-ups before the final baffle was selected. If the design was placed on carpeting, I would think a shorter baffle would work. 

matevana

Re: CBS Open Back
« Reply #5 on: 17 Jun 2012, 03:14 pm »
So, you're running the woofers mono crossed in below 200Hz?  Simple is good, but that's a big mistake for the sake of simplicity.

Greg

One of the many trade-offs I suppose. One could easily employ a 2nd plate amp and run the same design in full stereo. With the relative low cost of watts, not a very expensive add-on. They still image well despite the mono/stereo hybrid. 

matevana

Re: CBS Open Back
« Reply #6 on: 17 Jun 2012, 03:20 pm »
I too am curious about how you decided where to place the drivers, geometrically. Besides floor bounce, I know there is literature supporting the thought that increased baffle length under the woofer increases bass output. Your design is simple and elegant. Nice.

With the mock-ups, I measured no additional low output by raising the woofer's height on the baffle. I tried all the way up through 12" on center. Conversely, the bass seemed more articulate with the driver mounted as low as possible. Keep in mind the hard surface floors in my environment may be a factor. I also spent some time offsetting the full range driver and running sweeps off-axis. Ultimately decided in favor of it's current center location.

fredgarvin

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1337
Re: CBS Open Back
« Reply #7 on: 17 Jun 2012, 03:27 pm »
With the mock-ups, I measured no additional low output by raising the woofer's height on the baffle. I tried all the way up through 12" on center. Conversely, the bass seemed more articulate with the driver mounted as low as possible. Keep in mind the hard surface floors in my environment may be a factor. I also spent some time offsetting the full range driver and running sweeps off-axis. Ultimately decided in favor of it's current center location.

Thanks, I haven't really had much experience with OB designs in my room. Very interesting.

-Richard-

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 853
Re: CBS Open Back
« Reply #8 on: 17 Jun 2012, 04:22 pm »
Hi matavana ~

Come to think of it... your low placed bass driver is a variant of the original JB Labs Open Baffle configuration... which I think was designed in the 1950's. This design also reinforced the bass with a near-the-floor placement.




The above photo is someone's more recent variation of the original design. Thanks for the further clarification.

With Warmest Regards ~ Richard


matevana

Re: CBS Open Back
« Reply #9 on: 17 Jun 2012, 10:14 pm »
Yes, I also found it helpful to build mock-ups and not just do a lot of measuring, but a lot of listening as well. Mounting the woofer lower seemed to push any cancellation from floor bounce above that driver's intended range. This was not the case when the woofer was mounted 12" off the floor.

Listening tests also proved important, as some decisions were made in favor of an apparent reduction in smearing in exchange for a slightly nicer off axis curve.