DAC?

pstrisik · « **on:** 15 Jun 2012, 01:47 am »

I hope it's ok to ask general equipment questions since I'm feeding Salks. I figure this is the community to poll!

I have SS8's coming in a few weeks.

I'm taking the leap to go further and just bought a used quality preamp (ARC LS-17). The bulk of my two channel listening is with files from NAS though a media player (Dune). I'm sure the media player's DAC is not the best (I was bit streaming to an Onkyo pre/pro). So, I'd like to add a DAC in the chain. I'm figuring a starter one at this point (under $800 - used ok). Tube would be great, but not necessary as long as it isn't grainy in the higher freqs. Need 24/192 and don't want to hit any switches when changing resolution. USB is not necessary. Balanced isn't necessary.

Any recommendations for what to research in that range that will hold its own feeding this preamp and the SS8's? And, in general, what DAC chips are considered better than others (eg, Wolfson?)

Thanks for any input.
.
........Peter

Austin08 · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Jun 2012, 06:18 am »

I just got an audio note from audiovideologic com and they have PS audio digital link III on sale. It is a steal at their asking price. Here is the link http://www.audiovideologic.com/ps_audio.php Hope it helps.

Nuance · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Jun 2012, 12:39 pm »

^ That's a sweet DAC but you do have to hit a switch to go from 96 to 192, and it doesn't support hi-rez. It's the DAC I own, though, and I like it (I don't listen to hi-rez).

How about a used Eastern Electric MiniMax Plus? You might be able to find one for $800 used, or maybe not. It's a fantastic DAC for the money, though; probably the best under $2000.

srb · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Jun 2012, 02:59 pm »

Quote from: Nuance on 15 Jun 2012, 12:39 pm

That's a sweet DAC but you do have to hit a switch to go from 96 to 192, and it doesn't support hi-rez. It's the DAC I own, though, and I like it (I don't listen to hi-rez).

The other thing is that the 96KHz/192KHz upsampling does not have an off or bypass position and even 44.1KHz is upsampled to 96KHz or 192KHz. I would prefer to upsample 44.1KHz or 88.2KHz to an even multiple of 176.4KHz.

I'm not trying to compare a $500 DAC to a $2000 DAC like the Bryston BDA-1, but it's upsampling is to either 176.4KHz or 192KHz depending on the input sample rate, and it is bypassable. I had a Stello DA100 Signature DAC that had a bypass for upsampling and my 44.1KHz files sounded better on that DAC with upsampling bypassed.

This is also the listening experience of Gordon Rankin of Wavelength who with a number of engineers and musicians in the studio listened to various tracks upsampled and not, and came to the conclusion that the most natural sound to the least natural sound in order was

1. No upsampling
2. Upsampling to an even integer multiple (44.1KHz to 88.2KHz or 176.4KHz)
3. Upsampling to an uneven integer multiple (44.1KHz to 96KHz or 192KHz)

They did feel that upsampling potentially had more dynamics and bass, but the sound was the least natural.

Steve

pstrisik · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Jun 2012, 05:36 pm »

Thanks guys.

Good leads. I already have ruled out upsampling DACs unless upsampling could be bypassed. That rules out the PS Audio despite the attractive close out price.

So far, my options:

1- Minimax Plus looks to be very nice, versatile and with very good reviews. Nice to be able to switch back and forth between tube/SS. Has balanced out, USB. Could be more my final than starter DAC. Hard to find used it looks like, so $1100.

2- Wyred4Sound DAC2. Solid state. Same DAC chip as Minimax Plus. Good reviews. Also very versatile. More expensive at $1499 and few used units available yet. But also could be final choice rather than starter. Interesting that it has a HTBypass option built in, so could allow to not have to turn on tube preamp when watching video. Might be low enough power draw just to leave on all the time and simplify everything for family. Possible to use as preamp as well from what I can tell.

3- A good starter solution might be the W4S MDAC at $400 and keep eyes out for one of the above at good price after a few months.

At this stage, I hate to buy new unless I'm absolutely sure it's a keeper.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Jun 2012, 07:35 pm »

When do you get your speakers? Maybe you'd like to try my Bolder EE dac with Dexa op amps in it since my system is torn down? Of course it has the good fuse and tube in it as well. Probably pushing $2k into this unit now.

pstrisik · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Jun 2012, 09:08 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 15 Jun 2012, 07:35 pm

When do you get your speakers? Maybe you'd like to try my Bolder EE dac with Dexa op amps in it since my system is torn down? Of course it has the good fuse and tube in it as well. Probably pushing $2k into this unit now.

Thanks Pete, very generous of you. Of course it would be fun, but it wouldn't give me a good sense of the EE Minimax Plus and I wouldn't be investing that kind of money in a DAC - at least for a while.

Jim is estimating two to three weeks from now for shipping.

......Peter

guf · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Jun 2012, 05:43 pm »

I went thru this a few weeks ago. My short list was the same as yours. I was bidding, for the first time, on a ee and lost. Then locally there was a a w4s dac2. I went for it $1150 and love it, although i dont have a lot to compare it to other than the "low end" portable dacs I had laying around. Honestly there wasn't huge noticeable difference. (that's in another post). As you stated you can use the w4s as a pre amp. That was the feature I didn't expect to use. I only have one source and its digita, my mac mini. So i feel like i saved money buy not having to purchase a preamp. Although i still search and want one, I dont need one. I use decible, software thats switches automatically for hirez and then the dac switches also. There are a few fellow w4s owners that suggested to get the off ramp usb product and it taks the hirez stuff to the next level.

good luck

nyc_paramedic · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Jun 2012, 01:40 am »

I would seriously consider the Ayre QB-9. Though, it's USB only. 24/192 and UAC2 compliant means no proprietary drivers needed ever, i.e., works with Linux (the future of all music servers) juts fine. Works great with Jim's Salkstream servers, too.

With my HT-2 TL's, a pair of Quicksilver Silver 88 monoblocks and Jim's Salkstream, the sound is detailed and divine. Can listen for hours and never get an iota of fatigue.

The Ayre does 24/192 but what it does with 16/44.1 material is superb as well. Again, it's USB only but I think that is one of its strengths.

pstrisik · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Jun 2012, 02:23 pm »

Quote from: nyc_paramedic on 18 Jun 2012, 01:40 am

I would seriously consider the Ayre QB-9. Though, it's USB only. 24/192 and UAC2 compliant means no proprietary drivers needed ever, i.e., works with Linux (the future of all music servers) juts fine. Works great with Jim's Salkstream servers, too.

With my HT-2 TL's, a pair of Quicksilver Silver 88 monoblocks and Jim's Salkstream, the sound is detailed and divine. Can listen for hours and never get an iota of fatigue.

The Ayre does 24/192 but what it does with 16/44.1 material is superb as well. Again, it's USB only but I think that is one of its strengths.

So, how would I use this with non USB sources?

.......Peter

srb · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Jun 2012, 02:40 pm »

Quote from: pstrisik on 18 Jun 2012, 02:23 pm

So, how would I use this [Ayre QB-9] with non USB sources?

You wouldn't.

Steve

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Jun 2012, 02:53 pm »

Quote from: pstrisik on 18 Jun 2012, 02:23 pm

So, how would I use this with non USB sources?

.......Peter

http://www.audiophilleo.com/audiophilleo2.aspx

srb · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Jun 2012, 03:26 pm »

The Audiophilleo (and most other converters like it) is a USB > S/PDIF converter, I don't believe that it (they) will work in the opposite direction to convert an S/PDIF signal > USB for input into a USB DAC.

Steve

pstrisik · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Jun 2012, 04:23 pm »

Currently looking at Audiolab MDAC with ESS9018, balanced, USB, remote, for $900 new. Anyone have any experience with this one?

The W4S DAC2 ($1500) has all of these features and more, but not added features that are particularly important to me.

They are probably reasonable equivalent in SQ - mostly different in features.

I think if I'm going to go over $500, I'll get something to keep (hopefully!), which means balanced since I'll have balanced preamp and amps. May not be critical, but I'll always wonder.

........Peter

nyc_paramedic · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Jun 2012, 09:10 pm »

Quote from: pstrisik on 18 Jun 2012, 02:23 pm

So, how would I use this with non USB sources?

.......Peter

you wouldn't. you said that the majority for you listening is via a media server. with the qb-9 you would have to commit to USB only. not a bad thing, in my humble opinion.

pstrisik · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Jun 2012, 09:28 pm »

Quote from: nyc_paramedic on 18 Jun 2012, 09:10 pm

you wouldn't. you said that the majority for you listening is via a media server. with the qb-9 you would have to commit to USB only. not a bad thing, in my humble opinion.

Thanks, but I'm going to need more flexibility than USB only.

....Peter

golfugh · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Jun 2012, 09:36 pm »

Take a look at the Wyred4Sound DAC1, has everything the DAC2 does minus the preamp function. It now has 24/192 USB, which appears you do not need. Nice DAC!

pstrisik · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Jun 2012, 10:02 pm »

Quote from: golfugh on 18 Jun 2012, 09:36 pm

Take a look at the Wyred4Sound DAC1, has everything the DAC2 does minus the preamp function. It now has 24/192 USB, which appears you do not need. Nice DAC!

I am considering it. I didn't realize they upped the USB rez to match the DAC2 (which I don't need - for now anyway). They haven't updated the website. The other thing missing is the remote control which would be nice, but not for $500 if that's the only useful difference to me.

Actually, I think I'll shoot off an email to ask if there is any sonic differences.

........Peter

golfugh · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Jun 2012, 10:07 pm »

Don't really need a remote (no pre function) on the DAC1, a few filter settings and it auto-senses the input.

pstrisik · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Jun 2012, 10:22 pm »

I'm glad you told me that! Input switching is really the only thing I would miss. Power might be handy, but that's secondary. I sent an email to verify that there are no sonic differences. If that's true, the DAC 1 would be enough for me.

......Peter

Edit: Just read also that the DAC1 will go into standby automagically if a signal is not detected after a period.

Remote? We don't need no stinkin' remote!