[murphy11]

Hey Danny,

Have you ever thought about very small speakers or kits roughly the size of Energy Take Classics? http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Take-Classic-Pack-Theater/dp/B0021L9BME

I have these speakers and a Rythmik F12G in my living room and can't get bigger speakers into the room Waf. Is this about the best I can do at that size? Really hoping you could design something to take it up a notch or a few for those who who have to live with small speakers.

[oz_audio_todd]

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/coaxial/seas-prestige-l12re/xfc-h1602-5-alum/fabric-coaxial/

This is a 5" Seas coax driver. Danny have you played with this, is it worth using, would it work for this application, how small could you make the box, how big would be ideal?
Ta 

[Danny Richie]

I have considered it, but the cost to build doesn't go down to much as the woofer gets smaller. At least if using the same quality tweeter and crossover parts.

I have some little 4" full range drivers (FR125's) on my desk as desk top speakers. They are great for that application. But placed out in my main system they get easily bettered by a pair of my A/V-1's.

Power handling is also limited with the small drivers. The FR-125's on my desk will handle a peak of about 30 watts and that is it. Sensitivity is low too. If you want decent low end extension (below 100Hz) using small drivers then you have to give up sensitivity.

I could design a thin tower using multiple 3" woofers or something to get power handling and SPL levels up, but the size in height shoots up there and so does the cost.

[murphy11]

Hi Danny,

Thanks for the reply.

The Energy's are 7x4x4 and are used in my living room\kitchen that my wife thinks is her room. I can't get anything larger into the room but would consider spending 5x the price of the Energy's ($1000) for 5 significantly better speakers in a small form factor.

My Rythmik F12G replaced a UFW-10 in that room because I wanted the best\truest sub quality I could get for under $1000 in smaller single box. I want a similar kind of option for small sateliites that have WAF, could reproduce quality sound down to 80, and my SPL requirements are moderate. My receiver is an Integra 8.8.

I have minis, bigfoot, UFW-10 etc in my basement but would like a great quality affordable system in my great room. It may not exist or I may already have a nice system already given the constraints but thought I'd ask.

[srb]

7" X 4" x 4" is a very limiting size which also dictates an ~ 3" driver.

If you are willing to step up a bit in size, something similar to the Cambridge Audio S30 (9" X 6.3" X 8") will have a 4.5" midbass and a 1" soft dome tweeter and likely be a discernible step up in sound.  4 of those paired with the S50 center speaker (2 X 4" midbass and 1" soft dome tweeter) will set you back ~ $650.

Other possibilities could be the NHT Superzero 2.0 (9" X 5.5" x 5"), but their -3dB is 85Hz and have a 4dB lower sensitivity of 86dB.  The Audioengine P4 passive is a contender (9" X 5.5 X 6.5"), but they don't have grills and would not likely pass your WAF.

Steve

[johnzm]

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76312.0

the speaker would be a little wider but this is what came to mind when i first opened this thread

[Doublej]

If Danny can't help you out then I would look at Role Audio, Paradigm, PSB Audio and Role Acoustics. They all make really small speakers. Aperion Audio makes one but it might be a smidgen too big for you.

Perhaps you can ship a pair of your existing speakers to Danny and pay him to mod them.

[alphaiii]

7" X 4" x 4" is a very limiting size which also dictates an ~ 3" driver.

If you are willing to step up a bit in size, something similar to the Cambridge Audio S30 (9" X 6.3" X 8") will have a 4.5" midbass and a 1" soft dome tweeter and likely be a discernible step up in sound.  4 of those paired with the S50 center speaker (2 X 4" midbass and 1" soft dome tweeter) will set you back ~ $650.

Other possibilities could be the NHT Superzero 2.0 (9" X 5.5" x 5"), but their -3dB is 85Hz and have a 4dB lower sensitivity of 86dB.  The Audioengine P4 passive is a contender (9" X 5.5 X 6.5"), but they don't have grills and would not likely pass your WAF.

Steve

S30 is definitely a big step up over small speakers like the Takes... but for someone used to the Takes, the S30 will look awful big and bulky.  I currently have a pair, and without grill they're just over 9" deep.  The 4.5" woofer actually measures closer to 5"... and offers alot more performance than you'd think based on the specs.

The NHT SuperZero is nice, but I can say from experience (and based on HomeTheater.com measurements) it doesn't not get anywhere near 85Hz at -3dB. 

The Energy V-Mini would be a nice step up from the Takes, with only a small change in size - 7.5 x 4.75 x 5.5.  They are much more sensitive than the SuperZero 2.0, and have equal or better bass extension - again, based on personal experience with both.

If you have the cash, the Paradigm MilleniaOne looks like one to beat when it comes to tiny speakers... The Sound & Vision Mag measurements are certainly impressive.  The one major downside is the low sensitivity (measured around 84dB).

[Tyson]

Check out "The Clue" speakers.  I heard them at RMAF and they were very impressive for small speakers.

[srb]

If you have the cash, the Paradigm MilleniaOne looks like one to beat when it comes to tiny speakers... The Sound & Vision Mag measurements are certainly impressive.  The one major downside is the low sensitivity (measured around 84dB).

Looks nice, but I'm even more intriqued with this one, the Focal Dome.  It looks like an awesome mini speaker, and rightly should be at $749/pair, well beyond the OP's budget.

6.75" x 5.6875" x 5.625"
88dB
80Hz - 28KHz

Steve

[murphy11]

Thanks for the ideas so far. I just upgraded my speaker cabling from very cheap rat shack cabling the contractor put in to the Liberty Z500 cables and replaced a cheap power strip with a PS Audio Duet.

The Mini V looks pretty good in that the sizing is about right and the looks are so close I could probably drop them in and the wife would not know the diffference (big plus)

[DeeJayBump]

How about some of the Gallo round speakers like the Nucleus Micros?

http://roundsound.com/satellite.php

[murphy11]

The mini-V's look like the best upgrade option for me.

On paper the woofer and tweeter are the same\similar size compared to the S30's in a smaller box. Sensitivity is almost the same as the Takes and they play on paper down to 78 compared to the Takes at 115.

My plan will be to keep the Takes as sides as they are front firing and are currently flush mounted to the side walls and replace the center and fronts from the Vanns Outlet center. The Takes have 9" of woofer across my front 3x3" and a mini front would have 18" 4x4.5". Looks very similar in design of Takes and only slightly larger. Thoughts?

S30 is definitely a big step up over small speakers like the Takes... but for someone used to the Takes, the S30 will look awful big and bulky.  I currently have a pair, and without grill they're just over 9" deep.  The 4.5" woofer actually measures closer to 5"... and offers alot more performance than you'd think based on the specs.

The NHT SuperZero is nice, but I can say from experience (and based on HomeTheater.com measurements) it doesn't not get anywhere near 85Hz at -3dB. 

The Energy V-Mini would be a nice step up from the Takes, with only a small change in size - 7.5 x 4.75 x 5.5.  They are much more sensitive than the SuperZero 2.0, and have equal or better bass extension - again, based on personal experience with both.

If you have the cash, the Paradigm MilleniaOne looks like one to beat when it comes to tiny speakers... The Sound & Vision Mag measurements are certainly impressive.  The one major downside is the low sensitivity (measured around 84dB).

 

[srb]

The mini-V's look like the best upgrade option for me.
My plan will be to keep the Takes as sides as they are front firing and are currently flush mounted to the side walls and replace the center and fronts from the Vanns Outlet center. The Takes have 9" of woofer across my front 3x3" and a mini front would have 18" 4x4.5". Looks very similar in design of Takes and only slightly larger. Thoughts?

Sounds like a good plan to me.

The proper comparison of driver inches would be to compare the circular area, Pi x radius squared.  The 3" drivers have a circular area of ~ 7 sq. in. and the 4.5" drivers have a circular area of ~ 16 sq. in.  So, 3 X 7" vs. 4 X 16" or 21 sq. in. vs. 64 sq. in., 3 times the area.  Of course, the actual usable cone area is smaller than the nominal size, but the ratio is still probably close nonetheless.

Steve

[murphy11]

SWEET 

Sounds like a good plan to me.

The proper comparison of driver inches would be to compare the circular area, Pi x radius squared.  The 3" drivers have a circular area of ~ 7 sq. in. and the 4.5" drivers have a circular area of ~ 16 sq. in.  So, 3 X 7" vs. 4 X 16" or 21 sq. in. vs. 64 sq. in., 3 times the area.  Of course, the actual usable cone area is smaller than the nominal size, but the ratio is still probably close nonetheless.

Steve

[alphaiii]

Just so you know, while the V-Mini and S30 state they both have 4.5" woofers... the S30's woofer is a fair amount bigger... and with the much larger enclosure, the S30 gives way more low end response than the V-Mini.

That said, the V-Mini sounds like a good option for you... and should easily be a step up from the Takes.