Norah Jones - Come Away With Me (24/192 HDtracks)

poseidonsvoice · « **Reply #20 on:** 14 Aug 2012, 12:46 pm »

Quote from: Davey on 5 Jul 2012, 04:27 pm

I always find it interesting to load two versions of the same thing into Audacity or Goldwave and take a visual look at the differences.

Here you go. (The redbook version ripped directly from the CD and the 24/192 FLAC.)

Dave.

Davey,

Can you educate us on what differences are seen between those two amplitude vs. time curves?

Thanks,
Anand.

Davey · « **Reply #21 on:** 14 Aug 2012, 04:58 pm »

Well, those aren't spectrograms. It's just amplitude versus time.

I didn't normalize either file but the maximum peak levels on both versions are nearly identical.

The average RMS level is approximately 3db lower on the Hires version and the dynamic range is about 15db larger. There's a good deal more compression used on the Redbook version relative to the Hires version. (You can see that fairly easily looking at the two displays.) However, it's much less compression than you might see on many other contemporary recordings. (The Norah Jones recordings are not bad in that respect.)

I didn't look at all 14 tracks, but a few of the others are consistent with this one.

If your system volume control is set about 3db higher when playing the Hires version you'd have a pretty close amplitude match for A/B purposes. However, subjective differences involve more than just relative amplitude correction.

Cheers,

Dave.

ted_b · « **Reply #22 on:** 14 Aug 2012, 05:03 pm »

Dave,
Good stuff. My waveforms look the same. And I hear more dynamics and quite a bit less congestion and/or clipping on her vocals than in the redbook (which, as you say, is no slouch SQ wise). Her next two albums show less improvement in hirez, but are better nonetheless.

evsentry3 · « **Reply #23 on:** 14 Aug 2012, 10:58 pm »

Looks to me like I see a flipped absolute phase.

EV3

ctviggen · « **Reply #24 on:** 15 Aug 2012, 09:30 am »

Quote from: Davey on 14 Aug 2012, 04:58 pm

Well, those aren't spectrograms. It's just amplitude versus time.

I didn't normalize either file but the maximum peak levels on both versions are nearly identical.

The average RMS level is approximately 3db lower on the Hires version and the dynamic range is about 15db larger. There's a good deal more compression used on the Redbook version relative to the Hires version. (You can see that fairly easily looking at the two displays.) However, it's much less compression than you might see on many other contemporary recordings. (The Norah Jones recordings are not bad in that respect.)

I didn't look at all 14 tracks, but a few of the others are consistent with this one.

If your system volume control is set about 3db higher when playing the Hires version you'd have a pretty close amplitude match for A/B purposes. However, subjective differences involve more than just relative amplitude correction.

Cheers,

Dave.

To me, those curves look exactly the same. Maybe if I had a larger monitor or if you cut the time down, I could see something. But as of now, they look identical.

catastrofe · « **Reply #25 on:** 15 Aug 2012, 11:57 am »

Ted, I'm sure a lot of us DSD types would love to hear your opinion of the download vs. an SACD rip....

Marius · « **Reply #26 on:** 15 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm »

HI,

Ive made a spectogram of "Don't know why", and I guess the extra dynamic headroom is kind of obvious: this song in the cd-rip has a straight cut-off at 22k, whereas the hdtracks 192 dl has just the extra space.

Very obvious too in this song is when this happens musically: with all Norah's t' and s's, and with every new frase she accentuates. More so than with the piano chords (which still seem a little 'raspy') Exactly those spots where the compression on the cd is most irritating.

Ted, please can you explain this: the original 22k line is still very visbile though, is that indicating a sacd-rip?

Marius

ted_b · « **Reply #27 on:** 15 Aug 2012, 01:32 pm »

Quote from: catastrofe on 15 Aug 2012, 11:57 am

Ted, I'm sure a lot of us DSD types would love to hear your opinion of the download vs. an SACD rip....

I will report back after the SACD gets released (Aug 22nd); but thanks for reminding me..forget the next two got released last week.

zybar · « **Reply #28 on:** 15 Aug 2012, 01:45 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen on 15 Aug 2012, 09:30 am

To me, those curves look exactly the same. Maybe if I had a larger monitor or if you cut the time down, I could see something. But as of now, they look identical.

They are definitely not identical Bob.

Time for a new monitor.

George

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #29 on:** 15 Aug 2012, 02:49 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen on 15 Aug 2012, 09:30 am

To me, those curves look exactly the same. Maybe if I had a larger monitor or if you cut the time down, I could see something. But as of now, they look identical.

Are you comparing the top screen print with the bottom one, or the two curves within each screen print?

ted_b · « **Reply #30 on:** 15 Aug 2012, 03:01 pm »

Quote from: Letitroll98 on 15 Aug 2012, 02:49 pm

Are you comparing the top screen print with the bottom one, or the two curves within each screen print?

The screens show left and right channels of the same recording. Read them as...the middle of the graph is silence and going over the outer edges of the graph is clipped distortion, and the differences between the middle and the outer edges is dynamics. In the case of the Norah comparisons the second set of waveforms shows that the middle trunk is much much thinner yet the peaks are still nicely there, but not too high or low. That results in more volume changes within the song, i.e more dynamics..and an overall more pleasant sound. If the middle trunk is thick that means more and more of the music is at the same volume.

Here is one of the all-time famous worst loud compressed tracks...from Red Hot Chili peppers Stadium Arcadium. Everything is loud, period.

Davey · « **Reply #31 on:** 20 Aug 2012, 11:40 pm »

Here's an interesting one I was listening to last evening. This is a 24bit/96khz recording, and just goes to show that it doesn't matter what the bit depth and/or sampling rate is, an engineer can use other means to "modify" the performance to its detriment.

Cheers,

Dave.

SilverShadow · « **Reply #32 on:** 13 Feb 2015, 08:08 pm »

Hi guys,
I just wanted to download "Feels like home" via HDTracks but somehow it isn't available in my region (Europe, Germany) (http://www.hdtracks.de/feels-like-home-215483)?

Can't find any other Norah Jones albums either, it only works if I use a US proxy.
Is there another shop where I can buy her lossless albums, because I can't find any?
I'd also physically import it if there's no way that I can buy it digitally.

The original CD version that I bought a few years ago via Amazon is just awful quality wise (worst quality of any album that I ever bought), especially with HiFi-headphones.

Thanks in advance!

holzohr · « **Reply #33 on:** 18 Feb 2015, 10:27 pm »

Quote from: SilverShadow on 13 Feb 2015, 08:08 pm

Hi guys,
I just wanted to download "Feels like home" via HDTracks but somehow it isn't available in my region (Europe, Germany) (http://www.hdtracks.de/feels-like-home-215483)?
Can't find any other Norah Jones albums either, it only works if I use a US proxy.
Is there another shop where I can buy her lossless albums, because I can't find any?
I'd also physically import it if there's no way that I can buy it digitally.

Why not giving Qobuz a try

http://www.qobuz.com/de-de/album/come-away-with-me-192khz-24bit-norah-jones/5099946383457

mattmisc · « **Reply #34 on:** 6 Feb 2023, 04:33 pm »

Is anyone able to conform (or deny) that this (https://www.hdtracks.com/#/album/5e01287b82679ee0f64648b6) is the remaster being discussed? It seems to match in terms of release date (2012) but still mentions "Blue Note". I'm not able to find any releases on Qobuz for the album in 2012 (see https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/search?q=norah+jones+come+away+with+me) which seems to indicate this is the one I want, but would be great to have confirmation before dropping $25 on it.

WGH · « **Reply #35 on:** 6 Feb 2023, 08:51 pm »

HD Tracks had the 192kHz/24-bit Come Away With Me available as early as March 16, 2014 so this is the very early remaster mentioned back in 2012. Norah Jones/Blue Note has a new 2022 remaster available.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140316225726/http://www.hdtracks.com/music/label/view/id/278/

Come Away with Me is the debut studio album by American recording artist Norah Jones, released on February 26, 2002, by Blue Note Records. Everything you find: CD, LP, Hi-Res will be on Blue Note.

Norah Jones does have a remastered box set also on Blue Note, unfortunately The Blue Note Shop only has LP and CD, no hi-res downloads
https://www.norahjones.com/news-1/2022/2/25/blue-note-announces-20th-anniversary-super-deluxe-edition-of-norah-jones-seminal-debut-album-come-away-with-me

"On April 29, Blue Note/UMe will release Come Away With Me: 20th Anniversary Super Deluxe Edition, a remarkable 44-track collection that captures the emergence of a singular talent and reveals for the first time the full story of the making of this now-classic album. In addition to a remaster of the original album, which was produced by Arif Mardin, the Super Deluxe Edition also includes 22 previously unreleased tracks including the original demos that Norah submitted to Blue Note, the complete First Session demos she made after being signed, and the first version of the album that Norah made at Allaire Studios with producer Craig Street, most of which has never been heard before and offers a fascinating look at the album that might have been."

The new remastered 20th Anniversary CD is available for $13.98
https://store.bluenote.com/products/norah-jones-come-away-with-me-20th-anniversary?utm_source=Original&utm_campaign=NorahJonesComeAwayWithMe%28AlternateVersion%2920220224&utm_medium=original&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.norahjones.com%2F&utm_board=norah-jones&utm_country=US&utm_linkurl=NorahJones.lnk.to%2FCAWM20th&variant=41343871221951

The Blue Note Shop does have a 96kHz/24-bit download for $17.98, no mention if it is the new 2022 remaster, looks like it is the 2012 version.
"....New York’s legendary Sterling Sound by Norah Jones’s longtime mastering engineer Greg Calbi, Come Away with Me was remastered from the original analog mix tapes in 192kHz/24 bit, and 96kHz/24 bit audio"
https://store.bluenote.com/collections/vinyl/products/norah-jones-come-away-with-me?_pos=9&_sid=bd43bda92&_ss=r&variant=37586810732735

Another option is if you have a Blu-ray player on the approved list then Come Away With Me SACDs are cheap on eBay. Rip the SACD with freely available software to get DSD64 tracks (.dsf) that will sound better than the original CD. DSD64 converts to 384kHz if your DAC doesn't play DSD.

MusicDirect has the SACD for $18.99
https://www.musicdirect.com/music/optical-disc/norah-jones-come-away-with-me-hybrid-sacd-5-1/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA54KfBhCKARIsAJzSrdq8NGrdBUEQeFM3Pha8jXfuNcaySqdSG9V7cEOgrTP9gz0yT-bhQ-8aAmM9EALw_wcB

WGH · « **Reply #36 on:** 6 Feb 2023, 11:19 pm »

This may be what you are looking for, the 2022 Remaster in 96kHz/24-bit - $17.99

https://www.prostudiomasters.com/album/page/131763

mattmisc · « **Reply #37 on:** 9 Feb 2023, 05:29 am »

Thanks WGH for all the info!

I did a bit more digging and found an independent analysis of a bunch of different releases of Come Away With me (and many more albums) here: https://magicvinyldigital.net/2022/04/30/norah-jones-come-away-with-me-review-lp-cd-sacd-streaming-atmos/
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like they had the 2012(4) available to them.

The main takeaway (quote): "These [2022] remastered versions are more compressed than the previous versions Qobuz (Ed2), Amazon (Ed3) and Tidal (Ed4)." Seems I'll stay away from that one (WHY DO THEY KEEP DOING THIS?!)

Thanks for the suggestion regarding Blu-ray player rip, my DAC does indeed support DSD, but I often use PCM upsampled to 1.5Mhz using HQPlayer. I'm not sure I want to go to that much trouble for one album right now. I can currently stream it on Qobuz, so it's not that I can't listen to it currently, I was just excited to read about a (potentially) improved remastering of the original.

I think I'm going to end up buying the 192kHz/24-bit version from HD Tracks.

WGH · « **Reply #38 on:** 10 Feb 2023, 01:07 am »

Nice link! Looks like it's hard to improve on the original.

I switch around using different upsampling algorithms in HQPlayer. For a while 384 kHz using DS5, poly-sync-long-lp was the sweet spot. 1.5 MHz flattened the soundfield but was more exciting.
Currently everything is upsampled to DSD256 using ASDM7ECv2, poly-sync-mp
When I get bored I'll switch to another poly-sync.

WGH · « **Reply #39 on:** 17 Feb 2023, 10:39 pm »

Quote from: mattmisc on 9 Feb 2023, 05:29 am

I think I'm going to end up buying the 192kHz/24-bit version from HD Tracks.

I finally got a chance to compare the HD Tracks 24/192 version to the DSD64 SACD rip. The 24/192 is clear, sharp and sounds nothing like vinyl, the opposite of relaxing unless it is played real soft, turn it up and it's like an ice pick in the ear.
OK, not that bad, more like video on a cheap LCD TV - WOW, so bright, clear and fatiguing.

The DSD64 is how this recording should sound based on it's all analog provenance.

The two recordings were compared using JRiver Media Player into a HoloAudio May KTE DAC. Even though JRiver has DSD pass-through the album still sounds flat without depth.

Upsampling DSD64 to DSD256 using HQPlayer lowers the noise floor allowing low level information to emerge, Norah is now 3-dimensional like on the vinyl.
Settings: ASDM7ECv2, poly-sinc-long-lp, poly-sinc-gauss-hires-lp