VTA XX2

tricka · « **on:** 3 Jun 2012, 07:14 am »

Greetings
I am using an XX2 on my Simplex. Curious to kno where the VTA should be. My arm is level but when I pop a mini spirit level n the top of the cart is says I am heel down. By some margin.

Any comments?

Cheers
Andy

bmurphy · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Jun 2012, 09:09 pm »

I might be wrong but I use the bottom of the XX-2 set parallel to the record surface to line up VTA. There is a "shoe" that the cantilever sticks out from and I use that as a reference. The rest of the body has odd angles and the top of the cart seems too far away from the record surface to use as a reference. Not sure where you are placing the spirit level, there isn't a lot of room! Also, this set up has the tonearm sloping down from the cart to the pivot point as I recall. I just got my XX-1 retipped by SoundSmith so I don't have the XX-2 on there as of last week so I could be wrong on the arm slope, working from memory. ;^ )

tricka · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Jun 2012, 09:51 pm »

Thank you - I'll give it a whirl. Yes: the mini bubble is very small - small enough to sit on the heel of the cart as attached.

Congrat's on your XX1 - enjoy

bmurphy · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Jun 2012, 11:28 pm »

Thanks, the SS XX-1 sounds great on instrumental music but a wee bit spitty on vocals... to the point of excessive sibilance on some material (Japanese pressing Meddle - San Tropez in particular). On balance I think I like the XX-2 more but the SS retip is such a good price that I had to see if the old XX-1 could be saved. About 5 years ago I sheared off the cantilever in one of those "Aaaaaaargh! Why did I do that?" moments when I was needlessly checking antiskate and the arm drifted effortlessly into the plinth and - boom, no more cantilever. I felt sick since this was a cart with maybe 250 hours on it...

How are you liking the Simplex? Have you heard it side by side with the Amadeus? The dealers I spoke with don't have both on hand at the same time.

tricka · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Jun 2012, 08:52 am »

Interesting - thanks for the update: I love the xx2. I wouldn't want any more treble - I don't think.

I have reset VTA as you suggested and it seems ...well, errr.... much the same - ha! Which makes me think that the table is pretty tolerant. I find with the WTL if you muck around with VTA, you end up changing all the other settings to compensate one way or another anyway eg amount of dampening, azimuth, position in the trough etc. You end up chasing your tail abit. And it all changes anyway depending on the thickness of the vinyl.

I have heard the Simplex and Amadeus back to back with the same cart - an xx2 - into a p75. If there was any difference I'm buggered if I could hear it. They are so similar. Nothing like the differences in eg carts or eg2 cables - or eg3 even adding the Auditorium 23 mat. Personally I went for the Simplex and a better cart, rather than an Amadeus and an entry cart.

I have no doubt the dealers in the USA don't want to cannibalise their sales of the Amadeus with the Simplex (cost price to dealers in Australia is A$1300 - I paid $2000 inclding 10% GST - and happily: dealers have to eat as well). So expect much the same where you are. Mark up would be a little healthier on the Amadeus, I would hope. ANd really the manufacturing costs would be very very similar. Its no Brinkman in terms of hard core expensive engineering. Nor it is 30k.

Segue: My biggest grip is the fit and finish of the Simplex- which is really budget. I had a RP3 and the fit and finish was miles better. But it didn't sound as good. Then again I never put a xx2 on it.

Oh ..I empathise about losing a cart..I bounced the xx2 off the deck the other day and nearly wet myself. Unlike others here I use the finger rest - whatever the sonic loss I don't want to risk 1.2k of cart.

Thanks for posting ..happy hi fi.

I can report benefit from some proper isolation.

vortrex · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Jun 2012, 03:09 pm »

Quote from: tricka on 4 Jun 2012, 08:52 am

Segue: My biggest grip is the fit and finish of the Simplex- which is really budget. I had a RP3 and the fit and finish was miles better. But it didn't sound as good. Then again I never put a xx2 on it.

Oh ..I empathise about losing a cart..I bounced the xx2 off the deck the other day and nearly wet myself. Unlike others here I use the finger rest - whatever the sonic loss I don't want to risk 1.2k of cart.

what's so bad about the simplex in the fit n finish? I've had a rega in the past (p5) and the fit n finish and materials used was horrendous.

I too use the finger lift. I might take it off just to see if I can hear a difference. has anyone ever done back to back comparisons?

Erocka2000 · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Jun 2012, 03:28 pm »

Finger lift for me as well

I tried to do the Firebaugh method, but I don't feel like I have enough control when lowering the cartridge. And I'd rather not break an EMT.

Mike Pranka · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Jun 2012, 06:26 pm »

VTA- an easy way to get in the ballpark: Use a lined 3" x 5" note card placed behind the arm tube with the stylus on a record. If the arm tube is parallel to the lines on the card, you can't be too far off. This gets the top of the cartridge roughly parallel to the record surface.

Firebaugh method of cueing: So there's no confusion.. you do this with your right hand (w/ small finger) anchored/placed against the plinth between the platter and the 'arm pivot. No where near the head shell. You then use your thumb and index finger to control the tone arm. Once I learned this and got used to it.. everything else (finger lift/cueing device, etc.) became cumbersome and slow.. and yes, less safe. There really is no better way to use the tone arm. Put a dead cart on and practice some if it's too scary at first..

Mike

tricka · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Jun 2012, 08:35 am »

Cheers Mike - yup did that. I had more in mind the XX2 - which seems a little different in the stylus angle. Anyways - not sure it is super critical - all sounds great to me. Just different. ATM have the arm a little heel up, the dampening about 1/3 into the cup (I usually run about 1/4) and lots of weight on the cart - about 210-215g. Seems to like it.

Then again it sounds pretty good dead level, heel down, dampening 1/4-1/3 and 200g on the ticker. Doesn't like it light - say 190g - or so my ears say.

But I'm a deaf old man with a hi fi rig that is on par with a Sony micro system - so I could be completely wrong.

Plink · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Jun 2012, 04:07 pm »

Quote from: Mike Pranka on 4 Jun 2012, 06:26 pm

Once I learned this and got used to it.. everything else (finger lift/cueing device, etc.) became cumbersome and slow

Bingo!

threadkiller · « **Reply #10 on:** 5 Jun 2012, 08:09 pm »

Tricka,
210 or higher is way out of the ballpark for an xx2...
You're also probably too far down into the cup.
Try your arm parallel to the record as mr p instructed.
Don't get too far into the weeds...

tricka · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Jun 2012, 09:07 pm »

Thanks TK - I'll take your advice and get back onto the bitumen..

best wishes
Andy

threadkiller · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Jun 2012, 11:36 pm »

Same to you, Andy. You'll get it.
Or call mr p if you have anymore questions- he's been very helpful to me..

tricka · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Jun 2012, 09:16 pm »

Cold and rainy day down under today. Listening to Morevec play some Chopin etudes. Very nice.
Have gone with the herd and placed the arm parallel to the record surface, dialled in 2g on the nose and have about 1/3-1/4 of dampening in the trough. All sounds very nice.

Must buy a Fozgometer. Doing it by ear at the moment, which is pretty hit and miss.

Thank you for all the input - happy listening to everyone.

threadkiller · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Jun 2012, 09:23 pm »

Moravec? Chopin? Some of my favs...
Nice for a rainy day... Or a happy one

vortrex · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Jun 2012, 12:18 am »

Quote from: tricka on 6 Jun 2012, 09:16 pm

Must buy a Fozgometer. Doing it by ear at the moment, which is pretty hit and miss.

My Fozgometer doesn't seem to work with the WTA, however it was fine with the VPI Classic. If I set the Azimuth per the meter, it's visually way out of whack when looking at not only the cart body to record surface but also the ball in the cup. Any have an idea on this?

threadkiller · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Jun 2012, 01:45 am »

Not I...

tricka · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Jun 2012, 11:48 am »

Quote from: vortrex on 7 Jun 2012, 12:18 am

My Fozgometer doesn't seem to work with the WTA, however it was fine with the VPI Classic. If I set the Azimuth per the meter, it's visually way out of whack when looking at not only the cart body to record surface but also the ball in the cup. Any have an idea on this?

That is interesting. Will look forward to update. Bryon Janis now - Rachmaninoff on reissue (Speakers Corner). Giving the horns a run off the leash...

threadkiller · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Jun 2012, 02:17 pm »

Or as my symphony friend always exclaims, bells up!
Nice choice... you seem to like piano works.
What initially sold me on my Amadeus was a piano recording on Nonsuch by Richard Goode of Beethoveen sonatas. Sounded like hell on my other tables- thought it must have been a flawed pressing. When I played it on the Amadeus, it sang! No VPI can do that! (yes, since there were VPI shills on here, on a WTL forum, I will get sassy and trash talk.

)

Send some of your rain this way- we're having a drought already.

tricka · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Jun 2012, 09:25 pm »

I do like piano - and the timing and timbre allowed by the WTL is outstanding. Last night we had abit of everything: piano, Chris Isaac (I love his new album btw),Nat King Cole, Ella, some Laura Marling (Bridget my wife consigned her to background only ), Muddy Waters (Hard Again), M83 and to finish the night Martha Argerich (back to the piano

).

I think Moravec is my favourite pianist - something about his playing that real talks to me. Also a fan of Barbosa, but for different reasons. And Freire and of course Argerich. Actually they are all wonderful.

Ahhh....I am channeling rain your way my friend.

Kind Wishes
Andy