VR-4s MkII in a 13' x 15' room

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pjnad

Re: VR-4s MkII in a 13' x 15' room
« Reply #20 on: 7 Jun 2012, 02:15 pm »
I would humbly suggest playing around with your placement, even w/o the manual or a conversation w/ VSA. I have found that even the slightest change effects the sonics considerably...whether it is distance from the wall ( side or front) or toe -in. Sometimes even a change of less than an inch on toe-in is significant.
Again, I also recommend stuffing/unstuffing the ports...you could even use a pair of rolled up socks if you don't have any polyfill. I think that you'll be surprised as to how much they can be tuned.
Good luck.
Paul

roscoeiii

Re: VR-4s MkII in a 13' x 15' room
« Reply #21 on: 7 Jun 2012, 02:40 pm »
Yeah, I will tinker myself too. As soon as I have time...

Delacroix

Re: VR-4s MkII in a 13' x 15' room
« Reply #22 on: 9 Jun 2012, 10:49 pm »
My memory of the VR4 manual is that it contained a lot of similar info on placement as the VR5 manual, since the size of both was comparable (identical?). If you can track down a 5 series manual then you will get lots of relevant info until such time as a copy of the 4 makes it to you. As I recall, for placement on the long wall, as you indicate will be your arrangement, the 5 manual talked of starting with an equilateral triangle, adjusting the size of this triangle to suit your room, with a 2ft space behind the speaker as a typical minimum and a different distance than this from the side walls, all without toe-in at first, then tweaking this as suits. That might be enough to get you on the way to seeing how best to work with your room. Good luck and keep us posted.

roscoeiii

Re: VR-4s MkII in a 13' x 15' room
« Reply #23 on: 9 Jun 2012, 10:57 pm »
Many thanks. I will play with things using that advice. Got sidetracked today by needing to dial in my turntable set-up. New tonearm (audiomods) and speakers showed up on the same week!

And thanks to the generosity of another ACer and VR-4 Gen II owner, I am getting a copy of the manual sent to me.  :thumb:

poseidonsvoice

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Re: VR-4s MkII in a 13' x 15' room
« Reply #24 on: 9 Jun 2012, 11:50 pm »
I would humbly suggest playing around with your placement, even w/o the manual or a conversation w/ VSA. I have found that even the slightest change effects the sonics considerably...whether it is distance from the wall ( side or front) or toe -in. Sometimes even a change of less than an inch on toe-in is significant.
Again, I also recommend stuffing/unstuffing the ports...you could even use a pair of rolled up socks if you don't have any polyfill. I think that you'll be surprised as to how much they can be tuned.
Good luck.
Paul

In addition, one more thing you can try along these lines. George Short of North Creek Music made this popular. Cut multiple straws of exactly the same length as the port. You will have to test fit them somewhat, so that all the straws look like they haven't been bent out of shape. Next dip those straws in shellac to keep them together. Then reinsert them back into the port. He found that the bass was MUCH cleaner, especially at higher levels of output, must be due to laminar flow through the port. I did this on my North Creek Okara's way back when and they definitely made a profound difference in the low end. If that doesn't work out, stuffing the ports is a great idea, there are a lot of online fellas who will sell you foam of exactly the same diameter and length as your ports on this speaker. But I would try the straw technique first and preserve the ported output.

Of course using a calibrated mic would be best and measuring at your listening position, while varying the listening position and the loudspeaker position can be the most ideal way of getting a linear low end response. Especially with a speaker that has as prodigious an output as the VR4 in a room that might be a tad too small as well as have a geometry that resembles a square.

YMMV.

Best,
Anand.

pjnad

Re: VR-4s MkII in a 13' x 15' room
« Reply #25 on: 9 Jun 2012, 11:57 pm »
In addition, one more thing you can try along these lines. George Short of North Creek Music made this popular. Cut multiple straws of exactly the same length as the port. You will have to test fit them somewhat, so that all the straws look like they haven't been bent out of shape. Next dip those straws in shellac to keep them together. Then reinsert them back into the port. He found that the bass was MUCH cleaner, especially at higher levels of output, must be due to laminar flow through the port. I did this on my North Creek Okara's way back when and they definitely made a profound difference in the low end. If that doesn't work out, stuffing the ports is a great idea, there are a lot of online fellas who will sell you foam of exactly the same diameter and length as your ports on this speaker. But I would try the straw technique first and preserve the ported output.

Of course using a calibrated mic would be best and measuring at your listening position, while varying the listening position and the loudspeaker position can be the most ideal way of getting a linear low end response. Especially with a speaker that has as prodigious an output as the VR4 in a room that might be a tad too small.

YMMV.

Best,
Anand.
Anand,
Are you referring to drinking straws? If so, I am not sure that any available straws would be as long as the port...would you use two "sets" of straws to get the desired length or could they be inserted part way?
I'd like to try this with my VR4s.
Thanks,
Paul

poseidonsvoice

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Re: VR-4s MkII in a 13' x 15' room
« Reply #26 on: 11 Jun 2012, 01:06 pm »
Anand,
Are you referring to drinking straws? If so, I am not sure that any available straws would be as long as the port...would you use two "sets" of straws to get the desired length or could they be inserted part way?
I'd like to try this with my VR4s.
Thanks,
Paul

Paul,

Excellent point. Yes, classic white/black drinking straws. However, if your ports are too long, all bets are off (the length of the port on my Okaras was only 2 inches so it was easy). The straws have to be packed tight though, so that the overall diameter is very nearly the same. The whole idea is completely reversible. Just don't push the straws all the way down the port so you can't retrieve them from the enclosure!  :duh:

Best,
Anand.

pjnad

Re: VR-4s MkII in a 13' x 15' room
« Reply #27 on: 11 Jun 2012, 01:55 pm »
Paul,

Excellent point. Yes, classic white/black drinking straws. However, if your ports are too long, all bets are off (the length of the port on my Okaras was only 2 inches so it was easy). The straws have to be packed tight though, so that the overall diameter is very nearly the same. The whole idea is completely reversible. Just don't push the straws all the way down the port so you can't retrieve them from the enclosure!  :duh:

Best,
Anand.

Got it! Thanks. Sounds like a variation on the suggestion by VSA on using a cardboard tube in the port...I have tried it using a rolled up manila folder with some success/effect. I think I'll give the straws a try...cheap and easy tweak! :thumb:

pre

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Re: VR-4s MkII in a 13' x 15' room
« Reply #28 on: 9 Dec 2012, 02:10 pm »
My memory of the VR4 manual is that it contained a lot of similar info on placement as the VR5 manual, since the size of both was comparable (identical?). If you can track down a 5 series manual then you will get lots of relevant info until such time as a copy of the 4 makes it to you. As I recall, for placement on the long wall, as you indicate will be your arrangement, the 5 manual talked of starting with an equilateral triangle, adjusting the size of this triangle to suit your room, with a 2ft space behind the speaker as a typical minimum and a different distance than this from the side walls, all without toe-in at first, then tweaking this as suits. That might be enough to get you on the way to seeing how best to work with your room. Good luck and keep us posted.

schweikert manuals and speaker positioning  VR-4  /  VR-5
 http://www.google.fi/#hl=fi&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=shweikert+vr-4+weawer+soundstage+placement&oq=shweikert+vr-4+weawer+soundstage+placement&gs_l=serp.3..33i21l2.16536.19668.0.19790.10.10.0.0.0.0.251.1089.1j6j1.8.0...0.0...1c.1.cAs_5ATkyzI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=460ecf5e05112efb&bpcl=39650382&biw=972&bih=550:

Above Weawer article(s) are the key documents for Gen II describing positioning and some room treatment ;  Wall distance measurement is from front tweater / mid

Check placement with the pink noise test described in both vr4 & vr5 manuals for  positioning
http://vonschweikert.com/archived10-10-2008/vr4.html
http://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=schweikert%20vr-4%20manual%20pdf&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEAQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fvonschweikert.com%2Ftechspecs%2Fdocuments%2Fvr4genIIISE_UA_review.pdf&ei=Q4DEUNbaA4iL4gT1voGoDg&usg=AFQjCNG23F9TLYo2yYOxl1GPEmdlCWnxNA

http://vonschweikert.com/archived10-10-2008/vr5.html

http://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=schweikert%20vr-5%20manual%20pdf&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDgQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fvonschweikert.com%2Farchived10-10-2008%2Fmanuals%2Fmanual_vr_5hse.pdf&ei=04DEUNH1DtSL4gTKuoCACg&usg=AFQjCNFD9Eee3DmGyz10sw2JyAlVuTf6pQ

 vr-2
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=110180.0
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/d.mpl?audio/faq.html
for alternative methods and the original

It will take some  time and  testing to find the speaker sweet spot. When good prepositioning is found, the HT preamp optimization room EQ can be started further with several test mics and external sound level meeter. 
« Last Edit: 9 Dec 2012, 03:38 pm by pre »