[Mag]

DaveNote's thread on the Axiom M80's got me to thinking about my speakers, which I believe can slay speakers much more expensive.

This isn't intended to be a review, but a chance to hype the merits of your frugal or thrifty speaker purchase. I'll start.

Paradigm Studio 100 v2- Purchased these speakers for $1800.00 cdn. The reason, might be the only speaker that can compete with the big boys that I can afford on my meager income.

Having Paradigm monitors already, it was obvious this speaker out-classed the monitor line and was in a class on its own. Weighing in at 100 lbs per speaker, they can be difficult to move. So think about their placement before moving, and watch the toes.

Weaknesses- They need a high-current amp to drive them, such as the Brystons. I've used older stereo amps, av/receivers that sounded like ass with the bass. My Yamaha av/receiver could drive them, but could not make them sing like my Brystons.

Needs the juice to really open up in terms of tonality,timbre, etc., we're talking in the 92 db+ range. At lower volumes they sound pleasant, but hide their capability.

These speakers reveals your equipment. It's only voicing the weakest link in the chain. Very neutral, not adding what I can discern as a sound signiture of its own.

Strengths- Puts out hard hitting bass, what I call slam bass. Bass is very articulate and not accentuated. My friend commented that I didn't have enough bass. Puzzled by his comment I then turned the bass tone knob to +3, giving me the OK sign.
Puts out a wide beam for this type of speaker, which makes localization difficult, speakers disappear in my 11'x 25'x 8' room. Boundary friendly speaker.

Can handle any type of music, but excells at hard rock. No speaker can touch it for hard rock at $1800.00

[vegasdave]

JBL Studio L890s....they've been on the market for quite some time now. They retail for $1600. But, you can get them for half that or even less. I got my pair from buy.com for $800.

They do in fact shine with the 4BSST amp, and are rated to handle up to 250W of power. They sound good at low volumes, but get a little hard sounding @ higher volumes. Bass can be a bit boomy as well.

I didn't expect the world from $800 speakers. So, great bass, treble, and midrange, and you can really hear the differences in recordings. Like Mag's Paradigms, they're great on rock.

So, with 2 8" woofers per speaker, 4" midranges, titanium coated tweeters, plus supertweeters, it's a lot of speaker for the money. Good bang for the buck.

I would say the speaker to beat it would be Mag's Paradigms.

[Rocket]

Hi Guys,

Have you considered Salk Songtowers which are TL designed speakers and started at $2000US.  I'm sure you'd be impressed if you listened to them.

Regards

Rod

[Phil A]

I'd concur that the Salk Songtowers are a great value.  I had the opportunity to hear them at the last two Capital Audiofests.  Dennis Murphy who does some of the crossovers for Salk is a member here and has his own line of speakers too.  I believe the website is philharmonicaudio.com.  They are great for the money as well and start at $1.6k.  I could not believe how nice they were for the money.  I walked into the room last year and his top of the line Philharmonic 3s were player and I thought they would be more than double what he sells them for.

There's always Magnepan too.  The most expensive part of a speaker to build is the box with the finishing.  Those of course don't have a box.

[DaveNote]

Mag, I hope others follow you in identifying giant killer speakers. Such alternatives are not only interesting to read about, but a list like this also would be a public service.

As one who has a pair of giants now lying disconnected and therefore dead in my sound room, killed by a kind of speaker-David (no pun intended), that are looking for a decent burial, it might have helped me to have such a list before making such a large investment. But that's water - or more precisely, money - that has flowed under the bridge.

Having learned the hard way about the sterling merits of the Canadian approach to designing speakers, I'm not surprised that you've found your giant killer speaker in the Paradigm brand, which is headquartered in Ontario.

Phil refers to Salk Songtowers as "a great value," which no doubt is true, as no doubt is also true of Mag's Paradigms as well as my M80s.

But the stunning difference in the price of these speakers and the "giants," I have learned, at least in my case, kind of masks the central and critical difference which is not cost but performance.

My M80s killed my MB2is, in terms of my ears and preferences, not because they are a great value, but because they are just better speakers.

I'm now anxious to listen to James's Model T passives. Compared to the M80s and the others mentioned here so far, they won't be as great a value in terms of price, but they may, too, be giant killers in terms of performance. And hasn't that been part of Bryston's approach for some time in terms of its high end competitors?

Dave

[mhconley]

My Fritz Carbon 7 speakers replaced Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v.4 speakers in my stereo.  The Paradigm's are great speakers; I just found the Carbon 7's better to my ears.  See my review here as for why...

I believe Fritz's Carbon 7 speakers to be true giant killers.

Martin

[DaveNote]

Mag, I think it should gratify you that a professional reviewer came to pretty much the same conclusion you did about your Paradigm speakers. This was the conclusion of the Stereophile review done in 2000:

"Audiophiles can be a snobbish lot, prone to select products on the basis of exclusivity and prestige rather than just performance. Paradigm speakers are widely available, and most of them are relatively inexpensive, which could lead some audiophiles to dismiss the Reference Studio/100 v.2 out of hand as a high-end contender. Nor is the Studio/100 v.2's perceived audiophile credibility helped by the fact that dealers tend to demonstrate it with moderately priced electronics.

But Paradigm's Studio/100 v.2 is most certainly a serious high-end contender, and a formidable one for just about any speaker in its price range and even well above. While the Studio/100 v.2 is forgiving of less-than-pristine electronics, it benefits from being combined with a topnotch digital source, electronics, and cables. Although I didn't have a pair of the original Studio/100s available for comparison, there is every indication that the v.2 represents a significant improvement over the speaker that had Tom Norton asking—rhetorically—whether it was the best speaker in its price range. As Tom noted, this question is impossible to answer, given the number of speakers out there, and given that the definition of what's "best" is inevitably complicated by individual preferences about the importance of different sonic attributes.

But if tonal neutrality is at the top of your list of priorities for speaker performance, and you want a speaker that can play loud without sounding stressed, then you really must listen to the Reference Studio/100 v.2. You may well decide that it is, indeed, the best speaker in its price range."

Dave

[James Tanner]

Magnepan MG 1.7's - mate them up with a good sub or two and it seriously approaches state of the art.

james

[ptmconsulting]

Apogee's - any model (depending on your room size)

- The big drawback is they require a high current amp to drive their 3-4 ohm load, either tubes at 150 watts+ or solid state at 350-500 watts. They also require bi-wiring.

- Sound wise, they will take on all comers.

- The biggest issue is finding a pair in good shape that are for sale close enough to you to audition and pick up personally, because you really can't ship these babies.

[Rocket_Ronny]

I personally love Apogees for their live clarity. What I don't like so much is the ribbon being behind 3/4" mdf which affects imaging. The NewForm Research 645s taught me what the Apogees were doing to the soundstage. Bringing it more forward and individual images were flatter and larger. Still, I could easily live with a pair Apogee Grands.   

Rocket_Ronny

[mrhyfy]

Mag, I hope others follow you in identifying giant killer speakers. Such alternatives are not only interesting to read about, but a list like this also would be a public service.

As one who has a pair of giants now lying disconnected and therefore dead in my sound room, killed by a kind of speaker-David (no pun intended), that are looking for a decent burial, it might have helped me to have such a list before making such a large investment. But that's water - or more precisely, money - that has flowed under the bridge.

Having learned the hard way about the sterling merits of the Canadian approach to designing speakers, I'm not surprised that you've found your giant killer speaker in the Paradigm brand, which is headquartered in Ontario.

Dave

(NO OFFENSE TAKEN)  What do you mean by the "canadian approach..".  Straightforward, narrow baffle etc?
Eh?

[95Dyna]

Magnepan MG 1.7's - mate them up with a good sub or two and it seriously approaches state of the art.

james

Hi James,

I auditioned the MG 3.7's w/a pair of JL Fathom F110s and you are spot on about the Maggies.  Since we're in $6-7K range for 1.7's and a pair of subs like the 110's I would nominate the Von Schweikert VR 4 JR MKiii as a giant killer.

[PRELUDE]

Here is one great giant killer speakers or more correctly speaker.
JBL Paragon 1957-1983 when high efficiency did mean something.
http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/paragon.htm


and for some of you who is not familiar with this speaker here is what is going on inside.


Happy listening.

[audiomagnate]

One of JBL's ugly duckings, the JBL SVA2100 can rock your world. Originally $2,000 a pair in the mid 90's, they were a major flop with their office water cooler/coffee machine styling, but they sound lovely! The crossover is a thing of beauty to behold, with high quality parts and beautiful manufacturing standards. Vocals are never harsh or "horny" with the Audax soft dome tweeter and well designed wave guide and crossover. My buddy has SF Cremonas and he can't get enough of them. I rotate B&W 801s and Martin Logan Aerius Is with the SVAs, but the SVAs seem to get the most air time.

[jimdgoulding]

Here is one great giant killer speakers or more correctly speaker.
JBL Paragon 1957-1983 when high efficiency did mean something.
http://www.audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/paragon.htm


and for some of you who is not familiar with this speaker here is what is going on inside.


Happy listening.

When I was in jr. high, I worked Saturday's at a record store that also doubled as a hifi store.  I've spent many an afternoon sitting on the floor in front of a Paragon speaker.  Blowed my wig back more than a few times.  It was that store's owner and my best friend's older sister* who was aquainted with him who first turned me and my best friend on to JAZZ.

*I remember she liked Kenton, Chet Baker, June Christy, Julie London and Ahmad Jamal.

[PRELUDE]

When I was in jr. high, I worked Saturday's at a record store that also doubled as a hifi store.  I've spent many an afternoon sitting on the floor in front of a Paragon speaker.  Blowed my wig back more than a few times.  It was that store's owner and my best friend's older sister* who was aquainted with him who first turned me and my best friend on to JAZZ.

*I remember she liked Kenton, Chet Baker, June Christy, Julie London and Ahmad Jamal.

If one day I blow up the fuse in my head I would make this speaker in active version.I have all original construction plan that even if you call JBL most likely they would not have it in hand.

[SoundGame]

I haven't tried them myself, but from what I've been reading and have heard - the new GoldenEar speaker line are maybe not giant killers but extremely high value - don't know anyone personally that's owned them and can't say I'm a big fan of Sandy's former Definitive Technology speakers - except the Mythos speakers.

[DaveNote]

(NO OFFENSE TAKEN)  What do you mean by the "canadian approach..".  Straightforward, narrow baffle etc?
Eh?

I understand that a number of well-known speaker companies tend to design on the basis of careful testing that came out of the National Research Council.

Wikipedia:..."the NRC has been highly influential in the field of audio. A great deal of research at the NRC has gone into the designs of many popular speakers from Canadian speaker manufacturers like PSB Speakers, Energy Loudspeakers and Paradigm Electronics. Some of their research has also influenced speaker designs around the world."

There is more about this on the Axiom site:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/NRC.html

Dave

[SlushPuppy]

Magnepan MG 1.7's - mate them up with a good sub or two and it seriously approaches state of the art.

james

Yep!

[vegasdave]

One of JBL's ugly duckings, the JBL SVA2100 can rock your world. Originally $2,000 a pair in the mid 90's, they were a major flop with their office water cooler/coffee machine styling, but they sound lovely! The crossover is a thing of beauty to behold, with high quality parts and beautiful manufacturing standards. Vocals are never harsh or "horny" with the Audax soft dome tweeter and well designed wave guide and crossover. My buddy has SF Cremonas and he can't get enough of them. I rotate B&W 801s and Martin Logan Aerius Is with the SVAs, but the SVAs seem to get the most air time.

Those probably beat the crap outta my L890s!