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We are in the midst of an overhaul for our web site, but there are current specs for Cherry amps there:www.DigitalAmp.com(look at the product pages)We also have a spec sheet for the original Cherry amplifier:http://www.digitalamp.com/cherry%20measurements%20v6.pdfThanks for your post.
BTW, comparing amps is a subjective exercise, not an objective one.
Not really. You can listen with supplied measurement data.
• The interaction with an actual speaker load, which also affects what one actually hears with a given amp.
Funny that RH from Asolute Sound just had an editorial report on measurements and how objective vs subjective listening.... take a look:http://www.avguide.com/forums/blind-listening-tests-are-flawed-editorial
How did Tommy's request for comparisons of his amps to the Ncores turn into a diatribe on blind listening tests, etc.?
Respectfully disagree (slightly). Measurements tell most of the basics, but they currently fail to adequately capture:• How (complex) music signals behave in the time domain aspect • Switching artifacts and how they relate in the time domain aspect• The interaction with an actual speaker load, which also affects what one actually hears with a given amp.
I spent a few days with the Ncore's prior to dropping them off for Rich's get together. The basics of my system includes Danley SH50 horns, DAC Stereo Cherry amp, DEQX, Wyred 4 Sound passive Pre-amp. My rig is a 2 channel/home theater combo system and I mostly use an Oppo BDP-95 SE for all digital media to keep things simple. If pressed I say I'd prefer tubes over SS but can't deal with all that goes into owning a truly worthwhile pair of tubes that ticks all the boxes. For several years I've been looking for that just right SS amp. I've tried a few of the ICE Power, Class D variants and enjoyed them all to varying degrees. I simply wish to find a competent, low maintenance, high power amp. So the Ncores are the latest to peak my interest based upon the Hypex reputation and the great word of mouth here. I echo much of what's been said already, nothing really new to report. I liked the Ncores even handedness from top to bottom. Very tight focused and articulate bass, transparent mid-range and clean non-exaggerated highs. A very reassuring amp to say the least. Great at all volumes and kept its composure when pushed hard. Kept pretty much the same character at whispering levels as at room filling levels. A very articulate amp all around, a nicely refined and focused sound stage with good instrument placement and separation. Again, nothing new here so I would say that the essence of the amp is pretty well documented and I agree with much of it.On my high efficiency horns (100dB) I can say the Ncores were quiet and well composed and were a good match with no harshness or digital nastiness that was offensive to my ears but then again I'm not as sensitive to those things as others may be or maybe I'm just more forgiving. Very clean, crisp, refined and neutral sound. A pretty dynamic combo, excellent control, transient response and overall speed making for a controlled yet exciting presentation. If you like Class D then there's isn't much not to like. Exciting to think about bridging these for 1200 watts or so on my speakers, wow that would be nice in many ways.As far as how the Ncores compare to my resident Cherry Amp, I did not do a lot of A-B evaluation, that's not my thing so much these days. I did it once or twice but mostly I dropped the Ncores in and just listened for a few days. It was one reason why I took my Cherry Amp to Richidoo's audio meet so more A-B listening could be done. Not as much time as I would have liked was slotted for that comparison but it seems a general opinion was gathered. Personally, I am very happy with the Cherry amp and it fits my system and tastes well. In my system I found the Cherry to be warmer, more robust through the bass and midrange, a bit more dynamic and vibrant sounding. The Ncores sounded cooler, a touch more refined and a bit more precise (monoblocks vs stereo?). The Cherry seemed to have a bit larger sound stage left to right to front, the Ncore a more defined sound stage and maybe a touch more depth. The Cherry may project into the room more and sound a little more forceful. Rich commented the Cherry sounded like a good clean Push Pull tube amp with massive balls and I can agree with that analogy in the context of Class D. I find the Cherry to be the best compromise I've heard between tubes and SS in my systems. My speakers have dual 12 inch bass drivers per side and both amps just pound in the low registers, the Ncores a bit leaner and cleaner and I pushed them ear hurtin' hard and they just kept their composure and played the music louder as it should be. The Cherry pounds a little harder and when pushed just keeps on pounding harder as if plenty of reserve is on tap. I could not get the Ncores to duplicate that to the same degree but then again in the different room and set up such a thing could be too much. The Ncores and Cherry seemed to sound pretty similar all in all and it may be a system synergy thing as to which one might fit best for people. If I did not own a Cherry amp, I would likely buy a Ncore, possibly bridge it and ride off into the sunset. It did pretty much everything I'd need for sound and practicality and mated well with my system.Thanks Jason for squeezing me on tour and extending yourself in this way to allow us to spend some personal time with some really fine amps and for many could be the last amp they need to buy.
Chris, I liked the NCore for precision, accuracy, merciless grip at all freqs. It doesn't have as violent transients as Spectron or Levinson 53, but still very impressive overall from the audiophile's "absolute sound" perspective. It seemed more musical than those other 2 technical marvels, while also simpler, smaller, lighter cheaper. It did not suffer Rick's older version DEQX pre/processor well, exaggerating the edginess of that pre. Sol thinks it sounded like OP2134 opamps characteristic buzz, he is pretty accurate guessing chips and transistor part numbers by ear. With my Buffalo DAC there was no edge with NCore, but a few people still felt a trace of class D sizzle form NCore, even with the Buffalo. Eric's DAC amp (original stereo Cherry) reminded me of a clean PP tube amp with massive balls. The adjective most frequently heard among the guys was fat or phat depending on who said it. Fat from those who prefer accuracy and did not like the richening the Cherry added. I thought it was phat because it added flesh to the tone, rounded the edges a little compared to NCore, and seemed to tip bass response up a couple dB. It had a darker, richer sound that I liked better than NCore on the Ewave and especially on the DTQWT, while the Ncore sounded better to me on the Polks (we didn't play that combo at the meet.) It is weird that the NCore sounded better to me on the Polks than the Cherry, because the general agreement was that the Polks sounded top heavy on all of the other amps. But the NCore made the bass sound so great on the Polks maybe that allowed me to focus less on the highs.We only listened to Richard's NAD M2, only on the DTQWT, and only after most people had split, and the match was not great. The Cherry blew away the NCore and M2 on the easy load, high efficiency DTQWT speakers, perfect match. I'm not sure we analyzed that combo, but I was playing it at the very beginning when people were first arriving, and even my wife commented how great it sounded. She said what speakers are these? The ones I built last summer... Hmmm. Uh oh! Maybe I just needed a different amp instead of 2 more DIY speakers. :duh :rofl:But Sol's newest version i30, with <1/10 power than Cherry, was pretty much in the same class as Cherry on those speakers. It was a very nice match. Unfortunately we discovered that too late with only me Sol and Giyan still around to hear it. Magic hour came too late! We'll remember it for next time.There was so much that we didn't get to do, so it will be fun to reassemble these amps again in the near future for a rematch, with better (passive xo) speakers, more flexible schedules and less speaker swapping. Fortunately these amps all live in NC and everyone wants to do it again sometime. Shane and I are about to dive into SEOS builds this summer hopefully one of those will prove a worthy victim of class D abuse. Shane has a true monster speaker planned. Gene was tired toward the end, but some rare premium Lee Morgan (Take Twelve album) stoked his coals for a few minutes, and Bill hung in there to the bitter end. We all enjoyed their visit, and hope their threats to come again come true. I promised some CD copies but the CD-R blanks were not where they are supposed to be, so I will mail those out. Gene, I didn't even know there was Hampton Inn in Holly Springs, glad you found it on your own. Pics coming...
This is quite interesting http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58526.msg520319#msg520319
Yeah nice review, good to meet you over at Rich's also! On the limited back to back comparison I was liking the cherry also. It had a fatter tone to it compared to the ncore, but I like it! Sounded more realistic on the set up we were using at that time.
And another comment/er from that session...
