[pstrisik]

The new Synergy amplifiers are amazingly smooth!  Not smooth glossing over details and opaque, just simply very engaging and easy to listen to.  They really help make the whole system vanish and leave you with the music.  Most first time listeners comment about how smooth the amps are, really tube like but with no excess warmth (just enough) and with solid powerful bass control, and yes extended highs and detail and life like transients.

Relatively inexpensive, cool running, very powerful, very quiet, and very very musical.  An ideal match for the Soundscape 8s. And of course with our 30 day satisfaction guarantee, its a no risk no brainer amp to try out.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

PS  You really need a lot more power for the S8s than even a pair of bridged Ultravalve amps can do. 
The Synergy 450 is a lot less expensive than a pair of Ultravalves and will much better suit your needs.

I may just do that (try one out).  SS, if satisfying, would certainly make my life easier!  I'll be looking and looking for a bit while I settle in with the SS8's though.

I'm shifting my thinking after reading Sauer's "God is in the Nuancesl" and looking for something more global in the listening experience than detail, air, articulate bass, soundstage, etc.  All are important, but not if the music doesn't move me.

(I wonder if that is where Nuance took his name from.  If so, I'm glad the article isn't "Nuance is God" or that would really change this community!  )

.........Peter

[charmerci]

The Synergy amp is as Frank defines it and I really liked it. 

High praise indeed from someone who is not afraid to criticize AVA equipment. 

[martyo]

Quote from: Ericus Rex on Yesterday at 02:50 PMI think I get pretty good sound out of 90 tube watts.   


With what speakers?

...........Peter

Good question. His Blue Herons have a sensitivity of 91.5 while the SS8's are 86db. Mucho difference.

[Ericus Rex]

Quote from: Ericus Rex on Yesterday at 02:50 PMI think I get pretty good sound out of 90 tube watts.   


With what speakers?

...........Peter

Good question. His Blue Herons have a sensitivity of 91.5 while the SS8's are 86db. Mucho difference.

Ahem.  The Blue Heron2s aren't the only speaker I have owned or currently own.  I also get great sound from my 88 db speakers using my 40 watt tube amp as well.  I'd go with what Salk recommends; 40+ tube watts.

As for the generalities about tube amps (sluggish bass, rolled off highs), I think those 'flaws' are largely a thing of the past.  There are loads of newer tube amps available that have extended highs and powerful bass.  Some brands that come to mind are Music Reference (already mentioned - though I think the RM200 fits this description better than the RM9) and Rogue Audio (sorry Frank, I haven't had the pleasure of hearing your UltraValve yet).  I've owned several models of Quicksilver (still own the Quicksilver GLA amp) and I'd have to put them at slightly, very slightly more like a traditional tube amp compared to the MR and Rogue amps.  I haven't heard the V4, however.

Concerning hybrids, I find them all to be far less like an all-tube amp then their designers claim.  If we had a scale where 1 is pure solid-state sound and 10 is all-tube sounds, hybrids sound like a 2-3 at best.  The 'magical' tube sound lives in the power tubes, not the miniatures.  I'm not knocking them, but I do have issues when their designers claim they have 'tube sound without the hassles!' or some such nonsense.

Just my very biased two cents.

[rockadanny]

  Doh! I meant FET VALVE (owned and described above) NOT Ultra. I am sorry. My bad.

[mick wolfe]

Ahem.  The Blue Heron2s aren't the only speaker I have owned or currently own.  I also get great sound from my 88 db speakers using my 40 watt tube amp as well.  I'd go with what Salk recommends; 40+ tube watts.

As for the generalities about tube amps (sluggish bass, rolled off highs), I think those 'flaws' are largely a thing of the past.  There are loads of newer tube amps available that have extended highs and powerful bass.  Some brands that come to mind are Music Reference (already mentioned - though I think the RM200 fits this description better than the RM9) and Rogue Audio (sorry Frank, I haven't had the pleasure of hearing your UltraValve yet).  I've owned several models of Quicksilver (still own the Quicksilver GLA amp) and I'd have to put them at slightly, very slightly more like a traditional tube amp compared to the MR and Rogue amps.  I haven't heard the V4, however.

Concerning hybrids, I find them all to be far less like an all-tube amp then their designers claim.  If we had a scale where 1 is pure solid-state sound and 10 is all-tube sounds, hybrids sound like a 2-3 at best.  The 'magical' tube sound lives in the power tubes, not the miniatures.  I'm not knocking them, but I do have issues when their designers claim they have 'tube sound without the hassles!' or some such nonsense.

Just my very biased two cents.

Boy you just hit the nail on the head when you stated that the "magic" is in the power tube. As a  far fetched example, my Latino ST120 sounds better and more convincing with solid state ( Weber ) rectification.....as opposed to using an optional 5AR4 rectifier tube. The sonic signature of the power tube clearly dominates regardless of which rectifier is in place.

[pstrisik]

Boy you just hit the nail on the head when you stated that the "magic" is in the power tube. As a  far fetched example, my Latino ST120 sounds better and more convincing with solid state ( Weber ) rectification.....as opposed to using an optional 5AR4 rectifier tube. The sonic signature of the power tube clearly dominates regardless of which rectifier is in place.

What do you two think about a hybrid design that is reversed with solid state input and tube power and output?  I'm guessing you would think this is preferable - like the Balanced Audio RM-200 that Ericus Rex mentioned.  Gets good reviews, but a bit more money at $4200.

.........Peter

[mick wolfe]

What do you two think about a hybrid design that is reversed with solid state input and tube power and output?  I'm guessing you would think this is preferable - like the Balanced Audio RM-200 that Ericus Rex mentioned.  Gets good reviews, but a bit more money at $4200.

.........Peter

No experience with said amp or that technology. I remember a couple of 40 watters several years ago that were all solid state until the circuit arrived at a quad of EL34's. Maybe even an Audio Research amp or two as well. Hopefully Ericus Rex can jump in on that one. That said, tubes amps rated at  150 or 200 watts per channel are never cheap.

[Vulcan00]

  Just my opinion :

With the SS8 I would have to go with good sold state amp and a tube pre. Any all tube amp capable would be just away too expensive to buy and maintain. But I am a practical Audio enthusiast.


Harrison

[Austin08]

  Just my opinion :

With the SS8 I would have to go with good sold state amp and a tube pre. Any all tube amp capable would be just away too expensive to buy and maintain. But I am a practical Audio enthusiast.


Harrison

+1.

The SS8 is not hard to drive but I wished I could have a more powerfull amp. In normal listening mode, the Bat VK6200 is powerful and have a good control over the SS8 but when at 85db or higher,  I think the amp is reaching their limit while the SS8 could use some more. The question is am I happy with my current set up or the more powerful amp is in order?
I must delight to say that I am happy with what I got, now but also promise myself keep an eye on any good deal on another higher quality and power. Maybe, something like BAT VK600, Bryston mono block or McCormack DNA 750.

[pstrisik]

  Just my opinion :

With the SS8 I would have to go with good sold state amp and a tube pre. Any all tube amp capable would be just away too expensive to buy and maintain. But I am a practical Audio enthusiast.

Harrison

I've thought about tube pre and maybe even tube DAC with SS amp.  How would that influence the sound compared to using a tube amp?

I currently use a pre/pro (Onkyo 5508) and love the flexibility and it seems to be considered one of the best pre/pros (ie, with AVR type functionality) out there.  It is an integrated audio/movie system.  I haven't worked out in my head how HT bypass would work.  I suppose I would have a pre with bypass and use the same amps for everything.  In practice, does this arrangement work out ok?  That is, would movie watching operate as before while giving the capability of a dedicated 2 channel audio system?  I know that is the intention.  Anyone know how it works out in practice?

..........Peter

[pstrisik]

+1.

The SS8 is not hard to drive but I wished I could have a more powerfull amp. In normal listening mode, the Bat VK6200 is powerful and have a good control over the SS8 but when at 85db or higher,  I think the amp is reaching their limit while the SS8 could use some more. The question is am I happy with my current set up or the more powerful amp is in order?
I must delight to say that I am happy with what I got, now but also promise myself keep an eye on any good deal on another higher quality and power. Maybe, something like BAT VK600, Bryston mono block or McCormack DNA 750.

Cost wise it looks like a good option would be to bi-amp (or bridge if possible) using the VK6200.  If you have room in the chassis, add a couple of modules.  If you don't, use two modules that power surrounds for the effort and pick up a less expensive two channel amp for surrounds.  This is assuming you like the sound of the BAT of course.

You don't feel like the good quality 200wpc is enough?  I'm currently running 200watt SS monoblocks.  I don't like to get beyond 85db much (except for peaks of course) for fear of more hearing loss!

..........Peter

[Austin08]

Peter,

I am very happy with my current set up. The Vk6200 is working flawlessly in my system. IMO, Bat and Salk marriage is quite working out well. Only in some occasion that I feel the need for more power.  Yes, bridged the channel would be the option, I have no doubt about it but if I have a choice I would rather go ultimate.

Back to one of your HT bypass. My preamp have HT bypass, All I need was 1 pair of xlr ic from my processor to the vk31. Listening or watching movie is just as simple as pressing a button on the remote. If I want more bass when using the vk31, I just turn my processor on to to 2.1 and use the volume of my processor to control the sub. ( this is rarely a case since the SS8 bass is awsome, never feel the need for sub).

[pstrisik]

Peter,

I am very happy with my current set up. The Vk6200 is working flawlessly in my system. IMO, Bat and Salk marriage is quite working out well. Only in some occasion that I feel the need for more power.  Yes, bridged the channel would be the option, I have no doubt about it but if I have a choice I would rather go ultimate.

Back to one of your HT bypass. My preamp have HT bypass, All I need was 1 pair of xlr ic from my processor to the vk31. Listening or watching movie is just as simple as pressing a button on the remote. If I want more bass when using the vk31, I just turn my processor on to to 2.1 and use the volume of my processor to control the sub. ( this is rarely a case since the SS8 bass is awsome, never feel the need for sub).

When you switch over to your pre/pro to use the sub, does that eliminate the bypass function and not use the preamp? 

[Austin08]

No, I am using both as the same time. (I have my sources connected to both preamp and processor). Basically, the processor in this case just controlling the sub and the vk31 is the main preamp. There will be a crossover issue if the main speaker is not fullrange but since the SS8 are fullrange, I am well covered.

[kingdeezie]

I've thought about tube pre and maybe even tube DAC with SS amp.  How would that influence the sound compared to using a tube amp?

I currently use a pre/pro (Onkyo 5508) and love the flexibility and it seems to be considered one of the best pre/pros (ie, with AVR type functionality) out there.  It is an integrated audio/movie system.  I haven't worked out in my head how HT bypass would work.  I suppose I would have a pre with bypass and use the same amps for everything.  In practice, does this arrangement work out ok?  That is, would movie watching operate as before while giving the capability of a dedicated 2 channel audio system?  I know that is the intention.  Anyone know how it works out in practice?

..........Peter

You have no idea what you are missing man! The shift from my HT processor, to even a cheap tube preamp (a stock MAD 4SE), was shocking! The dynamics, the 3D sound....

When you have HT bypass the preamp when in bypass mode becomes an extension of the interconnects. You would take interconnects from your left and right main of the HT processor, into the Bypass in of the preamp, and that just sends the signal right to the amplifiers so you use the processor as the preamp functionally.

If you are using the HT processor for bass management however, when listening to music with the tube preamp, or SS preamp, the subwoofers will not work.

There are workarounds, but they are a PITA. I just bought speakers that handled the bass well enough on their own to circumvent the problem.

I eventually got rid of all the processors, and just do movies in 2-channel now for better SQ, but that is another story.

Good luck!

[pstrisik]

No, I am using both as the same time. (I have my sources connected to both preamp and processor). Basically, the processor in this case just controlling the sub and the vk31 is the main preamp. There will be a crossover issue if the main speaker is not fullrange but since the SS8 are fullrange, I am well covered.

Ahh, I get it.  I was afraid I would have to get into using speaker level input instead of line.  Thanks for the info.

...........Peter

[pstrisik]

You have no idea what you are missing man! The shift from my HT processor, to even a cheap tube preamp (a stock MAD 4SE), was shocking! The dynamics, the 3D sound....

When you have HT bypass the preamp when in bypass mode becomes an extension of the interconnects. You would take interconnects from your left and right main of the HT processor, into the Bypass in of the preamp, and that just sends the signal right to the amplifiers so you use the processor as the preamp functionally.

If you are using the HT processor for bass management however, when listening to music with the tube preamp, or SS preamp, the subwoofers will not work.

There are workarounds, but they are a PITA. I just bought speakers that handled the bass well enough on their own to circumvent the problem.

I eventually got rid of all the processors, and just do movies in 2-channel now for better SQ, but that is another story.

Good luck!

Thank you.  It looks like a pre-amp is the way to start before investing in amps.  I will likely upgrade from my Emo's but to what would depend on results from the pre-amp experiment.

I like this!

........Peter

[Austin08]

To make my answer clearer. Here is how they work out in my system.
Connection,

Oppo L&R out to vk31 input3
           7.1 analog out to Classe Sp 60. 7.1 input
          Coaxial out to Sp 60 dvd1
Classe 60 xlr maint out to vk31 HT bypass.

Listening 2 channel music.

Vk31 input3. (vk31 volume control the amp)
Sp60 dvd1 in stereo mode with sub. ( volume control sub).

Listening or watching movie or concert.

Vk31 HT bypass ( volume will not work)
Classe sp60 Dvd1 or 7.1 ext (volume control everything)

[pstrisik]

Got it - thanks for the clarification.  I missed that sources go to both.  Interesting approach.  Would be very interesting programming my Harmony to control all that!    But doable.  Only three sources at this point that would go to preamp:  phono, cd, digital music player.