Looking at moving from SS Amps to Tube Amps

golfugh · « **on:** 13 May 2012, 03:56 am »

I've been on an amp search for quite a while, having auditioned in/out of my system quite a few SS amps (from Bryston, Sanders, Bel Canto, etc.) and am looking for some suggestions. I have a few tube amps on my radar, but really don't have much experience to go on. My system is attached under my avatar along with associated room dimensions.

I'm currently using Odyssey Extreme Monos with KEF Reference 205/2's (8 ohm - min of 3.2 ohms/90db). Normal listening level is 75-85 db. These will be used in a combined 2 Channel/HT system.

I like the Odyssey's, they have a Symphonic Line CAP upgrade that has made a huge difference; but, I'm looking at going balanced (hum issues in current system).

The other SS amps auditioned had amazing bass driver control, but were dry in comparison to the Odyssey's. So, I'm looking for an amp with great bass driver control and at the same time a smooth/liquid midrange (not dry), so this has led me to look at modern tube amps. I'm also looking into Pass XA.5 series amps, XA 60.5/XA100.5, price being the main issue.

Desires:

I prefer monoblocks.
The pre stays for a while.
Would like to stay under $8000.

Bias:

I prefer balanced inputs.
True balanced circuit highly desired.
I've been looking hard at the Rogue M-180/Carver Cherry 180, but prefer the Rogue due to price and balanced inputs.
DIY not an option, I don't have the time and spend an inordinate amount of time on the road.

Thanks for any input and help
Mark

rpf · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 May 2012, 05:05 am »

Rogue is a good tube amp choice: dependable, good sound and service.

If mono-blocks are not a must (two of the bridgeable models are over your budget), check out Modwright (KWA100 or 100SE).

marvda1 · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 May 2012, 06:31 am »

how about a used plinius sa-103 125 watt class a amp. a lot of tube lovers love them.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 May 2012, 11:33 am »

I do like the Rogue stuff. I'd also check out Music Reference. It's a stereo amp but otherwise satisfies all your requirements. Glowing Stereophile review just a couple of months ago. Maybe it's on the Stereophile website.

http://www.ramlabs-musicreference.com/rm200.html

kingdeezie · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 May 2012, 02:19 pm »

First off, smart move.

In my opinion, and in my experience, switching to a tube amplifier was one of the few steps that made a significant step towards actually enjoying my system.

I had a Pass Labs 250.5 before my Manley Neo 250's, and while the Pass has excellent transparency it was, in my opinion, a touch cool for my taste. After having been through several other SS amplifiers before the Pass, I thought it was time for tubes.

The Manleys brought only a slight deduction in overall transparency, but really brought the music, with beautiful body and natural timbre. Changing tubes for "better" ones, and calculated cable choices, has closed the transparency gap, but kept the beautiful music.

Now, onto your question at hand....

With 8K, the sky is pretty much the limit if you want to go used. Obviously you won't be able to get a CAT, but you can likely snag any brand that you want used, obviously depending on the model.

Rogue has been suggested twice, and I would have to agree. The M-180s just got a great review in Stereophile, rated "Class A" if you buy into that, and sell new for 5900. That is well under your budget, and leaves you plenty of money for new music, cables, and tubes.

I love my Manley Neo Classic 250s. They retail new for 12K, but can be bought used for 4500 or lower. I bought my pair used, and had an issue with tube damage and failure on delivery. It took out a cathode resistor and the amp was bricked. Manley worked with me diligently to resolve the issue, and I had the amplifier working in less then a week, after they shipped me the replacement resistor. Incidentally, since I am not good with a solder gun, they sent the resistor on clips, and it was easy to DIY. Great customer service.

The VAC company makes great tube gear. The Phi 200 power amplifier is supposed to be great, and might be able to be picked up for under your budget used. Also look for the VAC renaissance amplifiers. People say they are the best amplifiers that VAC ever made, and Kevin (the owner of VAC), still services them I believe. Since they are older, the can often be found for great prices.

BAT also will have some great amplifiers used in your budget. Look for the BAT VK-75SE. I think they usually run used at 6K, and are supposed to be great amplifiers as well.

You have a lot of options man. Good luck!

borism · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 May 2012, 02:51 pm »

I have never regretted moving from SS (Classe CA200, BAT VK250) to tubes. Agree with all the suggestions above. Would add McIntosh MC275 which was my first tube amplifier. I used it with balanced inputs and it worked great. My current amplifier is the balanced Atma-Sphere S30 which I love but it is lower powered and may not work in your system.
Alternatively, there is a Rogue Medusa Tube/Class D hybrid which has received good reviews but I haven't heard it.
Good Luck!

rollo · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 May 2012, 03:12 pm »

Have you considered Hybrid ? Best of both worlds maybe.

charles

milford3 · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 May 2012, 03:20 pm »

I like Decware. The life time warranty can't be beat.

http://www.decware.com/newsite/homepage.html

rpf · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 May 2012, 03:20 pm »

Also second the MAC 275 and VAC amps. Great gear!

doorman · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 May 2012, 03:23 pm »

+1 on the Decware.
Happy hunting!

roscoeiii · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 May 2012, 03:50 pm »

Tubes and true mono design, on an 8 ohm speaker?

All of that adds up to Atma-Sphere OTL amps for me. You can go for M-60 monos (with perhaps an Autoformer for additional power by increasing the impedance the amp sees; OTL amps increase power into higher impedance loads).

Or there is pair of MA-1s on Audiogon right now. You could eventually get them updated to III.1 status for somewhere between $1,400-3,300 and get a new 3 year warranty, and still stay below your $8k limit.

AC member zybar is running MA-1s IIRC (or maybe it was MA-2s). Maybe look at his posts on these killer amps. Ralph at Atma-Sphere is also fabulous to work with.

Wow, this post is making me miss my S-30 amp...

Hugh · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 May 2012, 04:21 pm »

How about Joule Electra VZN-100?

medium jim · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 May 2012, 04:29 pm »

What ever you choose, don't let the Hypex NCore boys know about it or they will harangue you like no others

Jim

SteveFord · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 May 2012, 05:00 pm »

Lots of good suggestions so far.
I use old VTLs which I really like but if I were looking to replace them my short list would be Carver or Manley.
I know that their customer service is about as good as you'll get anywhere.

golfugh · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 May 2012, 06:20 pm »

Wow, thanks for all the suggestions so far!

jtwrace · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 May 2012, 06:34 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 13 May 2012, 03:50 pm

Tubes and true mono design, on an 8 ohm speaker?

All of that adds up to Atma-Sphere OTL amps for me. You can go for M-60 monos (with perhaps an Autoformer for additional power by increasing the impedance the amp sees; OTL amps increase power into higher impedance loads).

Or there is pair of MA-1s on Audiogon right now. You could eventually get them updated to III.1 status for somewhere between $1,400-3,300 and get a new 3 year warranty, and still stay below your $8k limit.

AC member zybar is running MA-1s IIRC (or maybe it was MA-2s). Maybe look at his posts on these killer amps. Ralph at Atma-Sphere is also fabulous to work with.

Wow, this post is making me miss my S-30 amp...

Yes, A-S, VTL, Manley, Rogue are all great. Maybe some Music Reference RM-200's might be a good option too. http://www.ramlabs-musicreference.com/rm200.html

earflappin · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 May 2012, 06:52 pm »

Quote from: medium jim on 13 May 2012, 04:29 pm

What ever you choose, don't let the Hypex NCore boys know about it or they will harangue you like no others

Jim

Don't short change yourself....the tube amp fanboys more than hold their own with the NCORE fanboys....

doug s. · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 May 2012, 02:23 am »

i had a pair of manley mahi mahi's; lower power, but excellent. if you need more power, the snappers would be an easy recommendation. the only problem is that their prices have increased drastically. when i bought the mahi's, they retailed for $2.5k, now they are $4.6k.

i only let the mahi's go to purchase a mesa baron, one of my fave amps, because its infinitely adjustable nature means it can work well w/most any speaker. and i had another pair of similarly powered amps that are set, which i wanted to keep - the audio mirror 6c33c's. the baron is a real pair of monoblocks, housed in a single chassis - it even has two power cords. if you are willing to low-pass your kef's below 60-80hz due to your subwoofers, the mahi-mahi's or the audio mirrors would likely be plenty of power in your system, and i would recommend either.

another seemingly good choice is adwertized right here on a/c - it seems these would be hard to beat for the price:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105378.0

doug s.

ps - if you are at all still considering solid state, i would check out electrocompaniet. and it is kinda hard to overlook the buzz being created by the ncore amps.

weitrhino · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 May 2012, 02:31 am »

I'm a Carver guy, but I think the only reason there aren't more suggesting Carver is because they just haven't heard them. I've had my 180's for over 3 years now and boy, let me tell you what. Get your ears on a pair and I think the deal will be done. Talking about why I like them is like whistling about chicken. The point is not going to come across that way.

earwaxxer · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 May 2012, 03:43 am »

It sounds like you have some good options in gear. As far as going from SS to tubes in one fell swoop I would probably advise against it. Not only very pricy, but the downsides of tubes are there. For my money - stick with the SS power amp, and add tubes upstream to your tastes. You can play with tube preamps, and tubes in the DAC and see if that may be all you are looking for. If not, you can go with tubes for power amps as well, but at least you can get the flavor. I personally built a simple tube preamp, and use it with my Emotiva XPA-2. I think they play very well together. Not very sexy in terms of 'bling, bling', but you cant have it all.