[Early B.]

My system appears to sound better late at night. I've heard many others say this, as well, and a generally accepted explanation is that the power is "cleaner" late at night.

Regardless of the reason, I'm wondering if my system would benefit from a higher quality power conditioner if it I get better sound at night. It seems to me that a good power conditioner would provide "clean" sound 24/7.

[michaelhigh]

I'm new to the tube game, and in the owner's manual for my Decware Zen Triode Select they speak of epiphanies occurring late at night when the power is cleanest, and of course I had to see for myself. I have  some high definition files, 24/96 and 24/192, and I figured those would be the most obviously affected. Turns out that even the 16/44.1 files sound more transparent, multiple veils lifted off of the songs, and overall, everything I play really late at night (probably starting at least around midnight) sounds noticeably better than during peak usage hours (power of suggestion/placebo effect? Hard to tell...). I'm amazed at the performance I'm getting and wish I'd discovered this phenomena sooner. It sems that everytime I get a new addition to my main system I have late-night sessions just out of a desire to really get into the listening, and to see how the new piece adds or subtracts to or from my overall presentation. The clean power after hours sure lends itself to superior listening, from my perspective. Makes me think twice about exploring power conditioners to further that theory, to improve my presentation during peak hours.

[Waker]

Makes me think twice about exploring power conditioners to further that theory, to improve my presentation during peak hours.

You are wise to think of improving your power.  Everything I have read and experienced points to providing plentiful power to a high-performance audio system. For example, ARC states in my Reference 210 owner's manual of 2005 that, "Preferably, the amplifier should be connected to its own A.C. power circuit branch, protected by a 20-30 amp circuit breaker.  The preamplifier and other related equipment should be connected to a separate power circuit and breaker.  If the power receptacle is more than 25 feet from the building's power entrance and breaker box, circuit wiring capable of 30 amperes should be installed to mimimize voltage drop using a 20-amp breaker."  This is straight from the designers of the audio equipment, advising to use their gear on specified circuits in homes that usually do not contain these circuits.  This is only one example of the attention that needs to be given to providing a plentiful, clean, constant power supply to a system with devices that are capable of outputting several thousands of watts of work. 
   I will go even further and say here that anyone in North America who wants the most out of their high-end system should seriously consider running one or more 240V circuits to wall receptacle(s), into which one or more 240V/120V transformers, capable of delivering more wattage than your system demands at or near peak, is plugged.  For the highest performance and audio quality, the listener needs a private, dedicated, generous power supply.  Best wishes in your search.   

[jarcher]

Probably yeah-saying a bit too late here, but I have also found this to be true, particularly in summer when both my & neighbors AC's are not gulping down power. 

And as Waker has suggested - someone who is really serious about sound should get a dedicated power line to the breaker panel @ or above 20amps.  Typically this shouldn't cost more than a couple hundred dollars - far less than marginal improvements by "upgrading" to much higher cost power line products.

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

(1) My system appears to sound better late at night. I've heard many others say this, as well, and a generally accepted explanation is that the power is "cleaner" late at night.

(2) Regardless of the reason, I'm wondering if my system would benefit from a higher quality power conditioner if it I get better sound at night. It seems to me that a good power conditioner would provide "clean" sound 24/7.

(1) It depends how LATE at nite. Really late at nite, say after 11:00 p.m., when most networking on-line activities in our neighbourhhood retire, maybe our powerlines can be cleaner & hence maybe the music sound better.

(2) Yes, but to drop a bundle to acquire a so-called "good" power conditioner is the last thing I'd do. You may call me "cheaper" again.

c-J

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

....For the highest performance and audio quality, the listener needs a private, dedicated, generous power supply.  Best wishes in your search.

Great idea. But who can afford it?

c-J

[S Clark]

Hi.
Great idea. But who can afford it?

c-J

Who can afford it? Probably most of our members.  It depends on your system.  If you have $2K and up in a system, probably $500 spent on power conditioning might make sense.  I've seen used conditioning units for as little as $150. 
Scott

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

(1) I will go even further and say here that anyone in North America who wants the most out of their high-end system should seriously consider running one or more 240V circuits to wall receptacle(s), into which one or more 240V/120V transformers,

(2) capable of delivering more wattage than your system demands at or near peak, is plugged.

(1) Why need to step-up line voltage to 240V from 110V when ALL audios in this part of the world operate at 110-125V????

(2) We should only worry about powerline voltage fluctuation, never NEED to worry about power ("wattage" ) not enough from the power grid nor our electrical panel.

Adding a powerline transformer is like adding a bottleneck to restrict the power (or "wattage" in yr language) flowing into yr system as any powerline irons get their own LIMITED power rating.

FYI, I added a heavy duty 1KVA isolation powerline transformer to power my 450W audio rig many years back. It ended up screwing up my music bigtime. I took it out & my music came back to normal. Now it is sleeping in my store room for ever.

Not all powerline transformers do NOT screw the music!

c-J

[Quiet Earth]

who can afford it?

- someone who is really serious about sound should get a dedicated power line to the breaker panel @ or above 20amps.  Typically this shouldn't cost more than a couple hundred dollars -

There you go. You don't even need a twenty amp line. 15A is fine if you're a low wattage guy like me. I think my entire system consumes less than 400 watts from the wall, and that if is all the source components are on at the same time.

to drop a bundle to acquire a so-called "good" power conditioner is the last thing I'd do.

Can you tell us what you would do?

[jtwrace]

   I will go even further and say here that anyone in North America who wants the most out of their high-end system should seriously consider running one or more 240V circuits to wall receptacle(s), into which one or more 240V/120V transformers, capable of delivering more wattage than your system demands at or near peak, is plugged.  For the highest performance and audio quality, the listener needs a private, dedicated, generous power supply. 

Meh.  I used a Richard Gray Substation (240/120) at one point.  It did some great things for sure but maybe the Richard Gray 1200s screwed up the good.   

I wouldn't mind trying that setup again with my current power conditioner but probably will not. 

[Quiet Earth]

FYI, I added a heavy duty 1KVA isolation powerline transformer to power my 450W audio rig many years back. It ended up screwing up my music bigtime. I took it out & my music came back to normal.

Maybe you bought a cheap one. I have had excellent results with Equitech and better results with BPT.

[Quiet Earth]

Jtwrace,
Yeah, I have read about lots of mixed results with the Richard Gray stuff. I find that a single 600S works well over here plugged into my BPT (120v to 120v). However, I believe when people say that RG doesn't work for them though.

[Speedskater]

Hi.
(1) Why need to step-up line voltage to 240V from 110V when ALL audios in this part of the world operate at 110-125V????
(2) ********
Adding a powerline transformer is like adding a bottleneck to restrict the power (or "wattage" in yr language) flowing into yr system as any powerline irons get their own LIMITED power rating.
FYI, I added a heavy duty 1KVA isolation powerline transformer to power my 450W audio rig many years back. It ended up screwing up my music bigtime. I took it out & my music came back to normal. Now it is sleeping in my store room for ever.
Not all powerline transformers do NOT screw the music!
c-J

The idea is to run 240V to near the listening room and then "step-Down" to 120V.  This is wired as a "separately derived system" which solves many ground loop problems.  A 1000 watt transformer is rather small for most systems.

(You wouldn't believe what the power company (POCO) does with transformer ratings!  Also POCO's are not bound by NEC rules.)

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

Who can afford it? Probably most of our members.  It depends on your system.  If you have $2K and up in a system, probably $500 spent on power conditioning might make sense.  I've seen used conditioning units for as little as $150. 
Scott

It may make sense to you, but not to me. 25% of the audio system price for a power conditioner??

How good can a $150 conditioner be, sonically??  FYI, the 1KVA powerline iron I mentioned above which cost my much more than $150, srews up my music bigtime.

Yr $150 conditioner would work much better on DEDICATED powerlines hooked up direct from the fuse panel which I installed since day one I moved into my house.

c-J

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

Can you tell us what you would do?

Here what I installed since day one I installed my audio den down my house basement many years back.

(1) Dedicated powelines 115V & 24VAC 60Hz hooked up direct from the fuse panel to dedicated 115V & 240V wall outlets, with dedicted INSUALTED ground wire direct from the house central earthing point (at the water meter point) to the dedicted wall outlets. Direct grounding is soooo crucial!

240V powerline is for my tape deck & TT rated 110V/220VAC, operating on 240V. Nothing to do with 220-110V step-down thing!

(2) Simple yet effective inline RFI powerline filter installed to each dedicated powerline (1x240VAC, 1x120VAC for analogue equipment only, & 1x120VAC for digital gear only).  Those RFI powerline filters are stragetically hooked up from the dedicated wall outlets to the related components. Made in England, providing RFI insertion loss of max. 52dB at 32MHz extended way beyond 400MHz.

Such RFI inline filters are linear & very musically friendly. NO active gadgets inside as found in many exotic & expensive power conditioners which may screw up the music. I  believe in the music quality that comes out of it, not by its price, brandname nor how much gadgets put in it.

Dear sudiophile consumers, don't be carried away by the high price nor brandname labbeld on any power conditioners. Listen first before you spend yr hard earned cash!

c-J


 

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

(1) The idea is to run 240V to near the listening room and then "step-Down" to 120V.  This is wired as a "separately derived system" which solves many ground loop problems. (2) A 1000 watt transformer is rather small for most systems.

(1) Most powerline isolation transformer are design-built 1:1 for the main purpose of powerline noise isolation & maybe "ground loop problems" as you quoted.  I'd like to read any scientific backup on such step-up & than step-down things.

(2) 1 KVA rating is already more than double the maximum power consumer of MY own audio rig. I don't think it is not enough power rated.

c-J

[lokie]

I also have "night and day" swings in sound quality.  As a Georgia resident, I get the summer time blues as the Air Conditioners never really slow down.

I have 3 dedicated lines and have tried various configurations with a host of power products from Isoclean, BPT,  etc.. After tinkering with different scenarios, my current setup has the pre and amp going directly to the wall with non-filtered power cords. All my digital is going through the Isoclean.

This is the best I have come up with but since there is such a variation betwean "night and day", I know that power delivery can be improved.. and, at least, more consistent.

Every time I read a thread like this, I get my hopes up that someone has figured this out, and as usual I come to the conclusion that everyone's situation is different. And when i read someone say something like, "hey- try the product I bought , it's great!" I automatically think they don't know what their talking about. Only trial  and error will tell you that every house/apt and every component has it's own idiosyncrasies and there is no silver bullet when it comes to this subject.

Until I hear someone say that their system realizes no improvement late at night when there once was, will a solution get my attention.

My instincts tell me that it's going to be some kind of power re generator or maybe solar power- although solar has the storage problem, so, from what I've read, it doesn't work. My instincts also tell me that a real solution isn't going to be "on the cheap".

[Quiet Earth]

Well said lokie. I don't have the day and night swings like you do, but the products that I have settled on make the day seem a lot more like night. That is the topic on hand. I obviously haven't tried everything out there so threads like these are informative to me. I like to read about what other people are using with the understanding that it may or not have the same effect at my house. I think that is all you can expect from a forum.

Interesting comment about the day never getting better than the night, then knowing you have achieved the goal. Not sure if that is possible or not within reason but I will keep my mind open. Night can still be a little better than day at my house, but if I go back to plugging direct into the dedicated line it would be a step backwards for me. I do this occasionally just to confirm.

See there c-j , I do listen. What do you say to me if I listen and prefer the sound of the expensive name brand gadget? Am I supposed to ignore it just because it costs a lot of money? If my ears really do make the final decision, I could care less who's name is on the faceplate, and I don't mind saving up to buy something I really like.

Life is short, live it and enjoy what you can. Never cheap out on yourself, it will cost you in the long run.

[Tyson]

Scotch also tastes better after midnight.  Not placebo, just a difference in how our bodies relax and receive sensory input.  It holds true for audio too.  I'm sure that clean power has some small part to play, but our biology has an even bigger part.

[saisunil]

Scotch also tastes better after midnight.  Not placebo, just a difference in how our bodies relax and receive sensory input.  It holds true for audio too.  I'm sure that clean power has some small part to play, but our biology has an even bigger part.

"God if you thing, god you are - dust if you think, dust you are." --scriptures