Headphone amplifier

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guest1632

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Headphone amplifier
« on: 10 May 2012, 12:08 pm »
Hi Frank,

Have you considered building a good headphone amplifier? Or is it possible to get one of your prees, with perhaps a beefier headphone amp that could rival your amps if speakers were put to them?

For me, a relatively good pair of speakers and amplifier ar ok. But, since the quality of my hearing is now diminished, the last bastion for me is headphones. What do you think Frank?

Ray Bronk

Devil Doc

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Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #1 on: 10 May 2012, 12:55 pm »
I have the same problem and my hearing isn't getting any better. I would buy a can drive anything headphone amp from Frank in a heart beat. I presently use The T-8+ headphone amp to drive my HD-650's. Works fine but I'm tied to the main system.


Doc

avahifi

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Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #2 on: 10 May 2012, 02:57 pm »
We certainly have all the circuits available to do a very good headphone amplifier.

The catch is the chassis.  If we use our standard preamp chassis the cost will be nearly as much as a full Insight+ SL preamplifier.  If we tool a special smaller chassis then we wonder if there would be enough demand to justify the design and tooling and initial investment cost.

What functions should a headphone amplifier have?  If we just offered a do it yourself kit with a finished stereo headphone amp driver board and a regulated power supply board and left the acquisition of the chassis and hardware and wiring up to the end user would this be viable?  The cost would have to be about $250 for the two necessary completed circuit boards.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

saisunil

Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #3 on: 10 May 2012, 03:15 pm »
The headphone amp market is super saturated with old and new designs in new and used markets ... Unless one is coming with either super powerful headphone amp to drive the latest orthos or coming with nice price to performance ratio - it is really hard to justify selling head amp in reasonable volumes to folks with varying interests to drive a variety of headphones with interesting headphone loads ...

guest1632

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Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #4 on: 10 May 2012, 11:32 pm »
The headphone amp market is super saturated with old and new designs in new and used markets ... Unless one is coming with either super powerful headphone amp to drive the latest orthos or coming with nice price to performance ratio - it is really hard to justify selling head amp in reasonable volumes to folks with varying interests to drive a variety of headphones with interesting headphone loads ...

Ok, I didn't know that. But that is what I am now in the search of. As for Frank's idea, I'd say to Frank, offer this as a kit, and see where it goes. if he has the necessary hardware already done, then offering this as a kit won't hurt him to much if sales are not up to what he is expecting. $200, for a decent headphone amp from AVA as a kit would be worth getting. Depending on the size of the case needed, these should be relatively inexpensive to buy.

Ray Bronk

Wayner

Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #5 on: 11 May 2012, 12:02 pm »
A kit would be worse then just offering the product. Kits require the same mechanical and electrical engineering, plus instruction sheets, plus completed kit check out, plus shipping. The days of kits are pretty much long gone.

Frank does have an auxiliary switch box described in the Audio Basics, that has hook ups for 2 sets of speakers and a headphone jack, powered by your power amplifier. The headphone jack is protected with a couple of inline, high wattage resistors, and the switching design allows you to decouple the speakers while listening to the phones.

I do not remember which issue it is in however. Maybe others or Frank can remember.....

Wayner

simon wagstaff

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Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #6 on: 11 May 2012, 12:50 pm »
Not to mention all the tech support required for people who buy kits and can't figure it out. My guess is that would also be a major issue.

:)

Devil Doc

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Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #7 on: 11 May 2012, 12:54 pm »
Not to mention all the tech support required for people who buy kits and can't figure it out. My guess is that would also be a major issue.

:)
And that's why I would never buy a kit. A man has got to know his limitations.

Doc

mark funk

Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #8 on: 11 May 2012, 01:16 pm »
Ya, I made one of those switch boxes years ago and I still use it some times works great for headphones  :thumb:


                                                           :smoke:

adydula

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Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #9 on: 11 May 2012, 01:36 pm »
Frank,

There are MANY, MANY headphone amps out there...all over the board in tube and solid state etc..and prices to match..an of course lots of not so objective analysis etc...

Question is would this $250 kit....be any "better" than what is in the Insight + pre amp ???

If the answer is yes it would be sonically better....or capable then some folks...like me would buy a $250 kit...get our own case and wire it up etc...

If the answer is nope its just the same stuff in the Insight already then most of us would proabably not be interested that have your preamp already etc...

But...there are lots of headphone fanatics that think $200- $600 is entry level, and $600 - $1K is moderate level and of course if you spend over the $1K on a headphone amp then you must have world class...

If for $250 your circuits are as good as world class amps out there..the world would beat a path to your door.

Alex

mark funk

Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #10 on: 11 May 2012, 09:29 pm »
I though I had a pic of the switch box,






Not the best pics but can you see it up there on the top left.


                                                                                   :smoke:

dB Cooper

Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #11 on: 12 May 2012, 04:11 am »
There does seem to be a resurgence of interest in headphone amps. Headphones seem to be the only thing keeping two channel audio alive. Kits are a different matter. As Wayner says, kits are largely a thing of the past. I have seen it said that it costs just about as much to 'kit' the parts as it does to build the completed product.

As someone who has enough skills to stuff a board from instructions and follow a wiring diagram, I would do it, but I may not have much company. Pre stuffed boards, I don't know if that interests me. I would say that if it could be designed to fit in a readily available chassis, rather than tooling a purpose-designed box, that would help.

As an aside, a headphone amp has a relatively easy job to do, and I don't know why one should cost $600 or $800 or $1K. I may even un-mothball my Versa Kit line buffer and re-do it in the headphone amp configuration. Only thing is the value for the volume pot is not given in the Audio Basics article (what is that value, Frank?) Not the 'latest and greatest' but I bet it would still give a good account of itself- like I said, a headphone amp has a fairly easy job.

guest1632

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Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #12 on: 12 May 2012, 09:27 am »
There does seem to be a resurgence of interest in headphone amps. Headphones seem to be the only thing keeping two channel audio alive. Kits are a different matter. As Wayner says, kits are largely a thing of the past. I have seen it said that it costs just about as much to 'kit' the parts as it does to build the completed product.

As someone who has enough skills to stuff a board from instructions and follow a wiring diagram, I would do it, but I may not have much company. Pre stuffed boards, I don't know if that interests me. I would say that if it could be designed to fit in a readily available chassis, rather than tooling a purpose-designed box, that would help.

As an aside, a headphone amp has a relatively easy job to do, and I don't know why one should cost $600 or $800 or $1K. I may even un-mothball my Versa Kit line buffer and re-do it in the headphone amp configuration. Only thing is the value for the volume pot is not given in the Audio Basics article (what is that value, Frank?) Not the 'latest and greatest' but I bet it would still give a good account of itself- like I said, a headphone amp has a fairly easy job.
[/quote

Hi, Well, To work with headphones, that statement "relatively easy job to do" is exactly that, relative. You might have phones real easy to drive like the Koss pro 3AA, which is 60 ohms if memory serves me right, or the Beyer models with 250 or 600 Ohm Impedance. Then you have the stuff like the Hifiman's 500 phones to run. I don't think this equation is quite as easy as first thought. I't not like speakers with an 8 or 4 ohm load maybe say down to 2Ohms, or the Dulquist DQ10 at a half an ohm if memory serves me right. It's a whole different can of worm. ]

That's why I was wondering if Frank had considered coming out with just a headphone amp. I'm glad to see a good response to this topic.

Ray Bronk

guest1632

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Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #13 on: 12 May 2012, 09:56 am »
I have the same problem and my hearing isn't getting any better. I would buy a can drive anything headphone amp from Frank in a heart beat. I presently use The T-8+ headphone amp to drive my HD-650's. Works fine but I'm tied to the main system.


Doc

Hi Doc,

just leave your amp turned off. I know this sounds real silly. That way you are not totally attached to the main system.

Ray Bronk

Devil Doc

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Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #14 on: 12 May 2012, 12:19 pm »
I guess I wasn't very clear. I'd like to have a headphone based system in the bedroom, that wouldn't take up too much room.

Doc

Wayner

Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #15 on: 12 May 2012, 02:49 pm »
Another solution is to get some new headphones that are not such a load to drive.

Wayner  :D

plaf26

Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #16 on: 12 May 2012, 05:50 pm »
Quote
Another solution is to get some new headphones that are not such a load to drive.

Wayner 
 

For example: Sony MDR-V6's are sensitive enough to deafen a person when driven by an iPod Nano (which has an FM tuner)!  Who needs a headphone amp, if you just want something for the BR?  Got my whole CD collection and some vinyl and shellac on an iPod Classic.  Great for travel too!  The V6's are cheap (way less than MSRP on line) and have been a favorite among pros for years.  Check 'em out at: http://kenrockwell.com/audio/sony/mdr-v6.htm

Wayner

Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #17 on: 12 May 2012, 08:02 pm »
Thanks Paul, I need a new pair and the Sony looks very nice. Nice price too.

 :D

dB Cooper

Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #18 on: 13 May 2012, 01:41 am »
Sorry Wayner, it says "For Digital" on them and you are a well known vinyl enthusiast. Better keep looking...   :roll:

dB Cooper

Re: Headphone amplifier
« Reply #19 on: 13 May 2012, 02:04 am »
There does seem to be a resurgence of interest in headphone amps. Headphones seem to be the only thing keeping two channel audio alive. Kits are a different matter. As Wayner says, kits are largely a thing of the past. I have seen it said that it costs just about as much to 'kit' the parts as it does to build the completed product.

As someone who has enough skills to stuff a board from instructions and follow a wiring diagram, I would do it, but I may not have much company. Pre stuffed boards, I don't know if that interests me. I would say that if it could be designed to fit in a readily available chassis, rather than tooling a purpose-designed box, that would help.

As an aside, a headphone amp has a relatively easy job to do, and I don't know why one should cost $600 or $800 or $1K. I may even un-mothball my Versa Kit line buffer and re-do it in the headphone amp configuration. Only thing is the value for the volume pot is not given in the Audio Basics article (what is that value, Frank?) Not the 'latest and greatest' but I bet it would still give a good account of itself- like I said, a headphone amp has a fairly easy job.

Hi, Well, To work with headphones, that statement "relatively easy job to do" is exactly that, relative. You might have phones real easy to drive like the Koss pro 3AA, which is 60 ohms if memory serves me right, or the Beyer models with 250 or 600 Ohm Impedance. Then you have the stuff like the Hifiman's 500 phones to run. I don't think this equation is quite as easy as first thought. I't not like speakers with an 8 or 4 ohm load maybe say down to 2Ohms, or the Dulquist DQ10 at a half an ohm if memory serves me right. It's a whole different can of worm. ]

That's why I was wondering if Frank had considered coming out with just a headphone amp. I'm glad to see a good response to this topic.

Ray Bronk

I would maintain that headphones-including planars- are an easier load for an amplifier circuit than a speaker. Even planars are a tiny fraction of the size of a big planar panel speaker, take a fraction of the power to drive, have a fraction of the capacitance, and need only develop a fraction of the volume in absolute terms as the drivers are, after all, right next to the listener's ears. Which is harder (and costlier) to design, a good two watt amp (which will make your ears bleed thru cans) running a single driver, or a good two hundred and fifty watt amp that has to handle (for example) multiple drivers, a complex crossover, big woofer(s) that the amp needs to control, etc etc.