[Tyson]

I've never tried chicken broth made with cooked bones.  I'm very sure the texture will be darker but is there a taste difference?

There is.  Deeper flavor.  Similar to roasting beef bones in the oven before using in a stock.  I only have 14 bones from my drumsticks, which is not quite enough for the big @ss pots of broth I make, so I'm gonna stop by the asian grocery close by and pick up some chicken feet, maybe some duck feet.  Yum!

[Bob in St. Louis]

I mainly discard after the first boil because I suck at spooning the scum off the top.  Dumping it ensures that it's ALL gone.  If you don't do this step (skim well, or dump), the broth comes out a bit funky tasting.

Could you use a turkey baster to suck it off?

Bob

[F-100]

There is.  Deeper flavor.  Similar to roasting beef bones in the oven before using in a stock.  I only have 14 bones from my drumsticks, which is not quite enough for the big @ss pots of broth I make, so I'm gonna stop by the asian grocery close by and pick up some chicken feet, maybe some duck feet.  Yum!

From now on, I'm going to save all the chicken bones from the Tuesday's 99cents special at Popeye's chicken. 
I usually buy frozen stewing chicken at my local Asian grocery store for $1.99/each chicken. They are chewy but perfectly for broth making.

[dlaloum]

I've never tried chicken broth made with cooked bones.  I'm very sure the texture will be darker but is there a taste difference?

The taste can be darker... richer...

Mum likes to roast beef bones before making soup too...

The roasting of the bones provides some of that caramelised flavour that nicely browned meat gets.

[dlaloum]

I usually buy frozen stewing chicken at my local Asian grocery store for $1.99/each chicken. They are chewy but perfectly for broth making.

This makes a big difference....

The local supermarkets only sell "young birds" usually called "roasters".

But for the best flavour, you want a nice OLD bird, preferably one that has spent some time running around - the meat gets darker, more stringy, and much more flavoursome.
Sometimes the organic places have older free range birds.

The other alternative I have found are the local Jewish Kosher butchers - they almost always have "boilers" available... and although they are not free range (or organic) - the definitely have more flavour !
Which is exactly what you want for broth/stock...

[jules]

Too right dlaloum, older birds and older beef too, make better stock.

Could I suggest that pre-boiling and skimming are unnecessary and waste flavour.

I know I'm repeating myself here but please try a no-boil approach and tell me what you think.

Bring the stock carefully to a point just below boiling. Do not boil for even as little as 30 seconds at any point in the process. It will make the stock murky and spoil the taste. Once you're up to temperature turn the jet right down and check to make sure it won't boil at all at this temperature. leave it at this temperature for 1 to 2 hours for chicken. You will not get any scum though you'll need to remove the fat of course. Unfortunately it's impossible to do this with an electric cook top.

I base a lot of my cooking on smell. While I'm making stock this way a delicate aroma wafts around the house, which is part of the enjoyment of the process. Boil it and it's dead.

Something that hasn't been mentioned so far I think ... herbs. Thyme, parsley stalks, oregano plus a teaspoon of peppercorns ... essential!! The oils in herbs are particularly vulnerable to boiling.

As far as clarification [rafting if you prefer] goes, this will only work with a stock that is reasonably clear to start with. It's impossible to entirely clarify  a boiled stock but the results of clarification with a well made stock are spectacular. It's also a fascinating if slightly scary process  .

jules

[dlaloum]

Jules - I will give this a try with my next chicken soup....

I have always favoured low temperature slow cooking - I just finished a slow cooked bean/chicken/lamb stew last night (now packed in the freezer for consumption over the next few weeks) - it took over 24hrs with cooking never reaching boiling point at any stage.

[jules]

  slow cooked beans dlaloum.

Winter's approaching in my part of the world so it's a great idea.

jules

[dlaloum]

Same here - winter rocked up the last week or so - time for hearty meals!

[geezer]

Anyone have a good vegetable broth recipe for us vegetarians?

[bunky]

i agree that it is much better to simmer when making a stock, if i have a leftover carcass from a roast turkey i will use it to make a broth for turkey noodle or rice soup.bones or skin left over from a large roasting chicken also are great for soup stock. bouquet garni is nice but the Trinity of carrots,celery and onion is the foundation for good soups and stocks and of course a little fresh garlic wont hurt either 

[dlaloum]

Anyone have a good vegetable broth recipe for us vegetarians?

More tricky - start with caramelised fried onions - that will give it some of the richness that you are missing from the meat...

Mushrooms also help to give it some "umami" that again is normally provided by meat - otherwise the standard Carrots, Celery, herbs...

bye for now

David

[Tyson]

My local grocery store had beef feet for the first time I've ever seen, so I bought all of them up.  The store is great, they had them all cleaned up and cut up into proper size already.  Roasted them in the oven for an hour last night and then transferred them to a stock pot with peppercorns, salt, bay leaves, a couple of whole cloves, a splash of vinegar, carrot scraps, celery scraps, onion scraps, and a lot of water. 

Let it simmer overnight, then today I strained it and used 4 cups of it in a pot of soup today.  Wow, it tastes freaking amazing.  And they are not done!  There is so much cartilage in them that I put the left over feet into a 2nd pot with scraps and spices and am making a 2nd pot of broth!  Since I got 4 lbs for $3, that's pretty amazing value.

[Rob Babcock]

My mom recently bought a whole cow; we have relatives that are ranchers.  Their cattle (at least the ones they reserve for their own & their family consumption) are grass fed, truly free range and are never given antibiotics.  Mom asked me to talk to the packing plant since I'm a chef.  She wanted me to tell them how to process it with the idea that they'd reserve all the sub-primals for me to cut for her.  They were also to reserve all the bones for us.  Well, they completely screwed the pooch!  The trimmed all the cap and lip of the rib, they cut the sirloin but into three or four pieces, cut the loin into steaks and cut trimmed the PSMO's down to nothing.  Almost worst of all, they threw away all the bones!   All they kept was about a pound of oxtail.  The only silver lining is that she gave 'em both barrels, so they told her whenever she had time to stop in they'd save a week's worth of bones for her.

At any rate, the cutting mistakes occurred because the person I spoke to turned out not to be the actual butcher (the whole reason I called!).  But the bizarre thing is that the bones were tossed because the owner of the pack said, "No one uses the bones!"   Wow, just...wow!

[Tyson]

I updated my first post based on my more recent experiences with making stock.  I now suggest roasting the bones first, and not boiling them for any length of time. 

[Bob in St. Louis]

....and not boiling them.... 

Uhhhmmm..... 
Where does the broth come in?

[woodsyi]

Uhhhmmm..... 
Where does the broth come in?

Simmering, which is not boiling.

[Tyson]

Roast them in the oven for an hour, put them in the pot, bring them to a quick boil, then reduce the heat to a simmer.  Then simmer for 12 to 18 hours.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Now that makes sense. Thanks fellas. 

[JerryM]

Rather than roasting, I wonder how it would taste if the bones were thrown into a 240° smoker for 8-10 hours first...