Why don't I ever hear about SVS anymore?

Rob Babcock · « **on:** 5 Feb 2003, 06:09 am »

I'm sure the guys that migrated here from HD remember the big blow up with SVS. For those that don't, SVS used to have a forum there, but when a few people suggested there were better subs out there, the head honcho of SVS got pretty testy. To make a long story short, there was a running flame war for a couple months, after which Ron V decided to take his ball and go home. Okay, that's a great simplification, and I'm not blaming Ron; there were some people who got out of line and the whole thing just got out of control.

Funny thing is, I never hear about their products anywhere anymore. I just noticed on their website that they have a couple of interesting new box-style subs out now, but not even their one-time-mouthpiece, Home Theater Forum, has any mention of it. Has Ron worn out his welcome everywhere? From what I've heard, their subs are superb theatre subs, nearly untouchable from a value standpoint (short of DIY).

I believe Marbles runs a pair of SVS Ultras (or is it SS's?) and is very happy with them. But is there anyone else out there that uses SVS subs?

Woodsea · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 06:19 am »

From what I gathered, they are fine H/T subs, but not for musical reproduction. I did alot of research, but not actual listening. I came to the ultimate conclusion that after side-by-side comparisons by others that VMPS could not be beat. It does seem that svs has lost alot of their momentum, esp since anyone can get the tube on their own, and put in really good drivers. But to build a box takes alot more technical know how.
Just my .02
-Eric

MaxCast · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 12:48 pm »

I know what you mean. If I was looking for a sub for HT I would definitely be looking at SVS and some others. The tube concept seems to have some advantages. I think the product life cycle curves of most direct companies are very similar. Also, unique products and performance don't always mesh with other factors such as usability and WAF....funny consumers we are sometimes.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 01:04 pm »

Actually SVS is a sponsor at HTforum and there is four active threads on the first page alone...new models are coming out and I think SVS is doing quite well. HT is the target market, I would agree.

Marbles · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 01:17 pm »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

I believe Marbles runs a pair of SVS Ultras (or is it SS's?) and is very happy with them. But is there anyone else out there that uses SVS subs?

You are correct.

I currently only use them for HT, but that includes my Concert DVD's where I have my 9.0's actively XO'd at 80hz. I also use an ART EQ on them to flatten the in room response.

Amp is a Crown K2. Both Ultra's are in the same front right corner.

For movies I run them 3 db high, for concert DVD's I run them flat.

In my setup they are great for HT movies, or concert (read that music).

As soon as IRD comes out with their active XO, I will try the SVS subs in my ref 2 channel system.

I think those that have tried the SVS vs VMPS might not have tried the Ultra model.
Although to be fair the price of the VMPS subs are more in line with lessor SVS models, so one a $$$ basis the comaprisons were probably good ones.

FWIW, Tyson sold his SVS after hearing a VMPS.

Juan R · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 10:35 pm »

I have a pair of SVS ultra in my media room also with eq. to get a flat line,I am runing about 3-5db hot. my room is 14x20x10, and believe me, you can feel the vibration in the other side of the house(my house is 7,000sqf.) But do not look for music, maybe dvd concert but no 2ch music.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 10:48 pm »

I don't doubt the quality of the product, just wondering if Ron's abrasiveness has led to some falling out of favor somewhat. I don't believe it's some type of "direct marketing life cycle", as Hsu sells like 95% of their subs direct sales, and they've been at the forefront for many years. Unlike SVS, they manage to get quite a few mainstream reviews, from Audio to Sound & Vision.

Likewise, I'm sure the SS/Ultra line is pretty good. Certainly you'd be hard pressed to find a setup with more output.

I was just looking at the HTF yesterday, and four threads is pretty meager compared back when the whole site seemed to be an advertisement for SVS. Hell, HD was like that for awhile, everyone singing their praises. But once a few guys started posting that the VMPS subs were better, RV basically went to war, and ended up abandoning the site. I'm sure VMPS makes good subs too, and whichever brand a person likes is okay. IMOHO, Ron took every good post for another brand as a knock on his stuff, which I don't think was the intention.

Just curious, and I'm sure SVS is still selling 'em as fast as they can make them. I myself am still interested in the Ultra subs, although I don't really need them. I'll probably just add another pair of Hsu's since I've got an extra Hsu amp (although the two I have kick ass to the point where that's pretty low down my list of priorities.

).

I certainly wish them well. I only think that Ron and Peter of AVReality are examples of how important it is to maintain some professional decorum in dealing with the public.

Tyson · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 11:35 pm »

Actually, the person that was making the ruckus was Tom Vohandel, not Ron Stimpson (they are co-owners of the company). Tom is all about specs, and that's a good thing IMO. But, the VMPS original sub was certainly a much better sub for music based on my audition of it in my home (I owned the 16-46CS at the time). I sold the 16-46 for a DIY sub with a similar sonic signiture to the SVS subs, but WAY more output. It's still not as musical as the VMPS subs, but it can crush you chest with bass power, and is still reasonably tight.

Ah, but the VMPS Original sub, that sub just put out slamming, tight, visceral bass that had better definition and deliniation of texture than any other sub I've heard to date. Pretty dang impressive. It goes quite loud too, but it won't loosen fillings in your teeth like the Larger sub will.

rosconey · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Feb 2003, 12:57 am »

love my larger sub

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Feb 2003, 01:14 am »

Tyson, would you enlighten us to which DIY sub you've gone with. I still have the original CS subs that I use for HT. And I'm still happy with them. I had discovered a looong time ago that they're not suitable for music. So, my next sub will be a VMPS.

Kishore had both the CS Ultra and the VMPS Original at the same time. From what I gathered, the Ultra is better for HT and the Original is better for music.

SVS still has large followings at AVSforum, hometheaterspot, and hometheaterforum. Those are the ones that I know of.

Tyson · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Feb 2003, 02:19 am »

I got a 24" cube using the Blueprint 1503 as the active driver, and a pair of high excursion 18" Passive Radiators from Stryke Audio. It has a similar "rounded" sound signiture as the SVS subs, but has more output than just about any sub you care to name. The bass isn't exactly "loose", in fact it's fairly tight, but it just cannot keep up with the VMPS subs for speed or articulation. But, since this is for HT, super tight bass is second on the priority list, right below overall output capabilities.

A pair of VMPS larger's will certainly give you all the bass you could ever want for HT, and they are tight and fast enough to excel at music too. I say get two so you can run them in stereo when listening to music.

Harry P · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Feb 2003, 02:20 pm »

As a guy who's been lurking many of the forums over the last few months I can definitely see why the SVS gang has rubbed some the wrong way. There is no question, they really know their data. However, some of us what argue that it's also about music and not just numbers. When I checked out their "recommended recordings" I noticed little or nothing that I would consider reference quality music. Lots of special effects explosions, amplified music etc. Nothing wrong with that. However, If you're making claims to reference quality subs shouldn't they also be tested on symphonic works? Acoustical jazz? How about concert piano?
Here's the thing. If I posted this in an SVS thread on some forums I'd be hung out to dry. There's something wrong with that in my book . . . .

rosconey · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Feb 2003, 02:32 pm »

svs is almost a cult

fredgarvin · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Feb 2003, 05:20 pm »

Hey Rosconey, you ever see Castawaywilson there in Hell?

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Feb 2003, 02:40 am »

Jeez, you're right, Tyson. My bad. It was Tom, not Ron, and I do apologize to Ron, if he ever sees this. It was a slip on my part. Ron never did anything to throw gas on the fire, and I think Tom is more the PR guy. Again, I don't want to cast aspersions on them as designers, as I'm sure the SVS subs rock.

I have heard quite a few folks say their SVS subs aren't all that musical. I wonder if the CS+ and Ultras are better. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think Marble found the big boys to be pretty musica.

Marbles · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Feb 2003, 03:25 am »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

I have heard quite a few folks say their SVS subs aren't all that musical. I wonder if the CS+ and Ultras are better. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think Marble found the big boys to be pretty musica.

For concert DVD's I'm very happy with the Ultra's and Crown K2 combo.

It's strange, but when demoing Klaus's Legato's, I had to pull my 9.0's/nOrh subs out. When I did this, the right norh sub/9.0 is right in front of the SVS subs and beside the fireplace hearth, locking them in to the corner, the SVS's got boomier. With the norh sub/9.0 back in position they were much tighter.

Anyway when Curt gets his XO's up and going I will try them in my ref 2 channel system.

For kicks I tried my transport and DAC hooked to my REF 50 pre/pro tonight so I could see how the subs might sound in my 2 channel rig. The subs did fine, but the REF 50 collapsed my soundstage A LOT

JoshK · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Feb 2003, 01:38 pm »

Does the Ref 50 redigitize the analog inputs and do its thing? The Ref 20 did that and it was a HORRIBLE preamp!!

Marbles · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Feb 2003, 01:58 pm »

Depends on the input...if you use the DVD-A inputs, and set it to 5 speakers it will not redigitize. If you use the DVD-A inputs and set to 7 speakers it will.

I used the CD inputs and used the "stereo" setting. The crappy documentation said this was the most "pure" setting, whatever that meant.

I would not use the REF 50 as a 2 channel pre.

If you use a digital signal in, as in DVD's it is OK, but the noise floor is higher than it should be. You can hear it at the speakers, but not my listening positions.

In DVD-A mode the noise floor is louder and clearly audible in my left side surround.

I would not recommend the Ref 50. I think the Anthem would be a better choice for most people.

Tweak1 · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Mar 2003, 11:10 pm »

I did a lot of research looking for a reasonably priced sub for my then Reference 3A mm DeCapos ($2500). I settled on the new SV-Sub with 525 watt amp. It worked great, I replaced the De Capos with $12K Nearfield Essence and am still happy. I would like a little more volume control, seems these are set for HTS, not 2 channel, otherwise, awesome value.