SACD players

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Stefan_DR3

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SACD players
« on: 29 Apr 2012, 02:42 pm »
What do you SACD users do for a player with your Bryston systems?

I just sold my Marantz SA-14 after many years of service.  Looking for something a bit newer.  Must have a black faceplate and balanced outputs.

I like the custom sled of Marantz, Linn, Esoteric as opposed to the generic plastic tray or CD-ROM drive but it's not a deal breaker.

For CD and HDCD I am using an Classe CDP-10.

I don't want any computer-based or USB playback system!!  I'm not into ripping my collection.

Cheers,
Stefan (AV-phile)

Phil A

Re: SACD players
« Reply #1 on: 29 Apr 2012, 02:51 pm »
Stefan, there's a whole thread in the Hi-res Music Circle about taking Hi-res directly to your DAC.  I use a BDA-1 DAC.  There are a variety of HDMI audio de-embedders (i.e. Monoprice product ID 5557 made by Port-ta - same as their PET4000, Atlona, etc.) which take the HDMI output of a hi-rez player and output a normal digital out that goes into the DAC.  I have a modded Oppo BDP-83 in the main system (the mods were around $1.2k so probably I have the equivalent of a $2.5k player via analog outs at retail - clock was changed, new analog output stage) and overall (there are positives and negatives) I prefer the 24 bit 88.2kHz PCM I get (via setting the Oppo to output PCM from SACD) vs. the analog outs of the player.

Phil A

Re: SACD players
« Reply #2 on: 29 Apr 2012, 02:54 pm »
Here's the page for the Monoprice unit - http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2

I have the Port-ta unit (a Hong Kong co.) too which is identical and here they are side by side:





Phil A

Re: SACD players
« Reply #3 on: 29 Apr 2012, 03:05 pm »
btw - I use an upgraded power supply with the Monoprice unit (anything that works with the Squeezebox Touch fits the bill).  I use the second unit in the secondary basement system with an Emotiva DAC (very good for the money).  While others have reported that they were able to get the newer Oppo BDP-93 to work with the unit without a handshake, I have yet to be able to do so (have not had the time I'd like).  I have a BDP-93 in the basement system hooked to the DAC when I have more time but am using an old Oppo DV980H DVD universal player and it sounds really good.  You can pick them up used for under $200 and together with the de-embedder you have a whopping investment of under $250 without the DAC.

The Oppo players pass 24 bit over HDMI.  There are other players that can output 176kHz in this manner but so far they have been tested at 16 bit 176.4kHz.  I have a cheap Sony Blu-Ray player (requires a handshake for me) that does SACD that way.  I picked up a closed-out Integra DPS 6.9 DVD universal last year and it doesn't need a handshake and sounds good but it too only passes 16/176.4.  I ran the player over to John Gatski's place of everythingaudio.net as he has an ATI ADAC2 DAC/Sample Rate Converter that shows bit depth.

tim92gts

Re: SACD players
« Reply #4 on: 30 Apr 2012, 07:59 am »
I'm using the SA11-S2 which is impressive, not sure if there's a black faceplate option.
Supposedly a bit bass light but with Bryston / PMC down stream that was never going to be a problem.

Phil A

Re: SACD players
« Reply #5 on: 30 Apr 2012, 12:07 pm »
A friend of mine was going to buy the Marantz (Pearl).  After he tried the de-embedder with his Bryston DAC, he decided not to.  I have about 300 SACDs and probably 70 DVD-As (I've got a couple of hi-rez downloads too).  At this point obviously I buy more CDs (as long as they are around) vs. any other medium.  It gets kind of pricey to be able to play a disc when you're spending $3k and have 300 discs.  I had the same dilemma when I got into LD late.  I would only spend so much as I only had so many discs.  Probably at some point in the future, when I have more time, I am going to digitize more things and buy more hi-rez downloads as physical media will become scarcer

Levi

Re: SACD players
« Reply #6 on: 30 Apr 2012, 12:30 pm »
I would go for an Oppo BDP-95.

95Dyna

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Re: SACD players
« Reply #7 on: 30 Apr 2012, 03:05 pm »
Hi Stefan,

I'm using the Esoteric X-05.  It is a marvelous bang for the buck player.  I consider it the sweet spot in the Esoteric line although some would argue that the X-03 holds that title (at a $3K pemium over the X-05).  Laundrew has an X-05 as well but I'll let him speak for himself.  Yo, Andy, are you out there?  Oh, and don't forget to read Neil Gader's review in TAS.

Bill

Rod_S

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Re: SACD players
« Reply #8 on: 2 May 2012, 11:06 am »
I use the Denon DVD-A1 and before that the Denon 5900. If I were buying today I would go for the Oppo most likely. You mention balanced outputs so do you only listen to stereo SACD's? I don't think I have ever seen a player with multi-channel balanced outputs.

cheap-Jack

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Re: SACD players
« Reply #9 on: 2 May 2012, 01:58 pm »
Hi.
Here's the page for the Monoprice unit - http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2

I have the Port-ta unit (a Hong Kong co.) too which is identical and here they are side by side:




[/quote]

Can you tell me how does yr "porta-ta" sound vs yr Monoprice unit on analogue stereo O/P???  Apparently the Monoprice units are made in China & the "porta-ta" is either an imitation or a fake. So what's the price difference?
Where can you get the "porta-ta" model if it's performance is O.K?

I go for HD stereo audio only. No home theatres!

c-J


Phil A

Re: SACD players
« Reply #10 on: 2 May 2012, 04:20 pm »
Port-ta I believe makes the Monoprice unit.  They are in Hong Kong.  I originally got the Port-ta unit from E-Bay Australia (that was the only place I can find it) and then I told my friend about the unit who was going to buy the $3k Marantz SACD player.  He found that Monoprice had the unit and I bought one and they obviously are identical.  He then bought the unit and uses it in lieu of the SACD player with his Bryston DAC.

I've never tried anything for audio except the coax digital output so I can't tell how anything about the other outputs, although I really can't imagine for the $44 or so that Monoprice sells it for that they are of great quality.  There are other more expensive de-embedder.  Atlona makes them (Markertek sells them) and they have analog outs.  I believe Extron also makes one that is $300?

I take the coax digital output from the de-embedder into my Bryston DAC in the main system (and Emotiva DAC in the secondary basement system) which then feeds my 2-channel pre-amp via the DAC's balanced outs.  As noted I also use an upgraded power supply on it.

I did try the HDMI switch in the unit for about 2 minutes and it looked fine.  I only use it to extract hi-rez 2-channel music to go into the DACs  You would probably be better off with a player if you want to use the analog outs.

John Gatski of everythingaudio.net has an Oppo BDP-95 and still uses his Atlona de-embedder into his Benchmark DAC vs. the analog outs of the BDP-95.  The de-embedder is a good product for someone who has or wants a good DAC.  If you have a good DAC, you're probably going to hear the equivalent of a $3k SACD player, give or take, by using the unit.

For me personally, with the number of SACDs I have, I really can't see spending $4-5k on an SACD player to get around the same level of quality.  The Bryston BDA-1 is a great unit for the money.  I've tried several SACDs through the analog outs of my modded Oppo-BDP-83 (which is probably the equivalent of a $2.5k SACD player) and while the high frequencies are probably a tad better, the imaging and overall presentation is just better through the Bryston.  I'm not a big fan of high cost digital or even video (done that before and the technology changes rapidly).  If I were to get a digital product, it would either be a DAC or a player (like the BDP-1).  There will be a point when drives are no longer available (like the BCD-1 which I used to own) in a player.  I sold an old Micomega (DuoPro) DAC I had that I got used and was around 16 years old when I sold it and still sounded excellent on CDs.  It sounded very much like the BCD-1 (the bass was better and more defined in the BCD-1).  There aren't many disc players that last 16 years.

cheap-Jack

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Re: SACD players
« Reply #11 on: 2 May 2012, 07:58 pm »
Hi

I am a devoted vinyl fan though I am still keeping my CD-a & DVD-A players.
So I am not going to spend a few grands for a auidophile grade HDMI deembedder as I am very convinced vinly analogue still sounds best above all digital media.

That said, I don't mind spend a few bucks to get a entry-grade HDMI deembedder to try out those Dolby lossless stereo recordings from BR soundtracks given BR players are selling cheap like crap eveywhere. See if it can touch my vinyl recordings sonically.

I am contacting Porta in Hongkong to get its latest sample deembedder unit.
Thanks for yr info.

c-J

Phil A

Re: SACD players
« Reply #12 on: 2 May 2012, 11:17 pm »
My friend uses his sub $44 Monoprice unit as it and thought it was better than a $3k player he was looking at using it in conjunction with his Bryston DAC and Oppo player.  The Oppos (including my old Oppo DV980H in the secondary basement system) will output 24/88.2 from SACD and I tested the unit and it passes 192kHz from DVD-A as well.  I have as noted an upgraded power supply (and anything that works with the Squeezebox Touch will do - I even changed a connector on a surplus power supply as I had Bolder Cables mod one and you needed to buy two and the whole investment with shipping and connectors is around $30 for the one I did - have not tried it yet - was planning to give it to my friend).  I am not sure it going to pass Dolby encoded things.  Someone who did not have an HDMI receiver asked me to try plain old Dolby Digital and while I did not exhaust every combo, I did try a couple of discs and could not get it to take audio from a DVD on my Oppo into a processor.

I think its best use is for someone who has a quality DAC and wants to take hi-rez PCM from either SACD, DVD-A or Blu-Ray sources right to the DAC.  I do think it is a better way to go than spending money on a player (though I do understand some prefer a player).  A DAC gives one the ability to play things from more than one source (i.e. computer, Squeezebox, devices like the BDP-1, etc.)

Stefan_DR3

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Re: SACD players
« Reply #13 on: 8 May 2012, 02:17 am »
I suppose I could use my Sony BDP-s770 sitting on the next rack (currently for TV only) as SACD-PCM transport in the manner you describe, but operating it gives me no joy and I would still have to buy a DAC!  I was hoping to get a half decent SACD player for less than the price of a BDA-1 (like the Sony SCD-XA5400ES but it is hard to find right now).

I also have an Oppo BDP-83 in my home theatre for multi-channel stuff, so this would be just for my two channel system.  Not keen on the idea of putting all my eggs in one basket by using a blu-ray universal player, but the BDP-95 does fit the bill and is reasonably priced (almost too cheap, in a way :duh: ).

Another option might be the NAD M5, but not sure how reliable it would be.

Thanks  :)

Stefan_DR3

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Re: SACD players
« Reply #14 on: 8 May 2012, 02:19 am »
I'm using the SA11-S2 which is impressive, not sure if there's a black faceplate option.
Supposedly a bit bass light but with Bryston / PMC down stream that was never going to be a problem.

I wish it came in black.  Hopefully their next generation will, and still be just as good.

Phil A

Re: SACD players
« Reply #15 on: 8 May 2012, 02:29 am »
I suppose I could use my Sony BDP-s770 sitting on the next rack (currently for TV only) as SACD-PCM transport in the manner you describe, but operating it gives me no joy and I would still have to buy a DAC!  I was hoping to get a half decent SACD player for less than the price of a BDA-1 (like the Sony SCD-XA5400ES but it is hard to find right now).

I also have an Oppo BDP-83 in my home theatre for multi-channel stuff, so this would be just for my two channel system.  Not keen on the idea of putting all my eggs in one basket by using a blu-ray universal player, but the BDP-95 does fit the bill and is reasonably priced (almost too cheap, in a way :duh: ).

Another option might be the NAD M5, but not sure how reliable it would be.

Thanks  :)

The 770 will only do 16/176.4.  I have the BDP-BX37 which is the same as the 370.  I could not get it to work without a handshake and I wasn't terribly impressed by the way it sounded.  I bought an Integra DPS-6.9 (DVD universal) on close-out just under a year ago for $300 and it does 16/176.4, needs no handshake and sounds worlds better than the Sony.  I'm using it in the bedroom system now for hi-rez and passing DSD to the Marantz SR6003 receiver.  If one wants a disc player, then the BDP-95 might be the best value out there.  I hope to migrate to more hi-rez digital stuff so the disc player route is not something that especially interests me personally but probably is a great choice for someone who wants a player

Freo-1

Re: SACD players
« Reply #16 on: 8 May 2012, 02:31 am »
Port-ta I believe makes the Monoprice unit.  They are in Hong Kong.  I originally got the Port-ta unit from E-Bay Australia (that was the only place I can find it) and then I told my friend about the unit who was going to buy the $3k Marantz SACD player.  He found that Monoprice had the unit and I bought one and they obviously are identical.  He then bought the unit and uses it in lieu of the SACD player with his Bryston DAC.

I've never tried anything for audio except the coax digital output so I can't tell how anything about the other outputs, although I really can't imagine for the $44 or so that Monoprice sells it for that they are of great quality.  There are other more expensive de-embedder.  Atlona makes them (Markertek sells them) and they have analog outs.  I believe Extron also makes one that is $300?

I take the coax digital output from the de-embedder into my Bryston DAC in the main system (and Emotiva DAC in the secondary basement system) which then feeds my 2-channel pre-amp via the DAC's balanced outs.  As noted I also use an upgraded power supply on it.

I did try the HDMI switch in the unit for about 2 minutes and it looked fine.  I only use it to extract hi-rez 2-channel music to go into the DACs  You would probably be better off with a player if you want to use the analog outs.

John Gatski of everythingaudio.net has an Oppo BDP-95 and still uses his Atlona de-embedder into his Benchmark DAC vs. the analog outs of the BDP-95.  The de-embedder is a good product for someone who has or wants a good DAC.  If you have a good DAC, you're probably going to hear the equivalent of a $3k SACD player, give or take, by using the unit.

For me personally, with the number of SACDs I have, I really can't see spending $4-5k on an SACD player to get around the same level of quality.  The Bryston BDA-1 is a great unit for the money.  I've tried several SACDs through the analog outs of my modded Oppo-BDP-83 (which is probably the equivalent of a $2.5k SACD player) and while the high frequencies are probably a tad better, the imaging and overall presentation is just better through the Bryston.  I'm not a big fan of high cost digital or even video (done that before and the technology changes rapidly).  If I were to get a digital product, it would either be a DAC or a player (like the BDP-1).  There will be a point when drives are no longer available (like the BCD-1 which I used to own) in a player.  I sold an old Micomega (DuoPro) DAC I had that I got used and was around 16 years old when I sold it and still sounded excellent on CDs.  It sounded very much like the BCD-1 (the bass was better and more defined in the BCD-1).  There aren't many disc players that last 16 years.

I'm with you on the Oppo.  I've got a Modwright BD 95 (tube), and am very happy with it.

Stefan_DR3

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Re: SACD players
« Reply #17 on: 8 May 2012, 02:33 am »
Hi
I am a devoted vinyl fan though I am still keeping my CD-a & DVD-A players.
So I am not going to spend a few grands for a auidophile grade HDMI deembedder as I am very convinced vinly analogue still sounds best above all digital media.

That said, I don't mind spend a few bucks to get a entry-grade HDMI deembedder to try out those Dolby lossless stereo recordings from BR soundtracks given BR players are selling cheap like crap eveywhere. See if it can touch my vinyl recordings sonically.

Hi there,

Some people say DSD direct to analog is still the best.  The BR -> HDMI -> de-embedder involves converting DSD to PCM which could affect the sound right out the gate no matter how good your DAC is.  Obviously opinions vary on how transparent the process is, with some folks even preferring PCM no matter what.

As for the de-embedder I guess it is just stripping the HDCP protocol leaving bare PCM.  The BR player is doing the decimation from DSD to PCM.

ALSO, Keep in mind "lossless" doesn't always mean "hi-res", if that's what you're after.  Many lossless blu-ray tracks are merely "CD quality" 48k/16 or 48k/24 (however in multi-channel surround sound).  In stereo audiophile terms no better than chesky 96/24 DVD from 1999 so decide first what you think of that! :wink:

Stefan_DR3

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Re: SACD players
« Reply #18 on: 8 May 2012, 02:43 am »
Hi Stefan,

I'm using the Esoteric X-05.  It is a marvelous bang for the buck player.  I consider it the sweet spot in the Esoteric line although some would argue that the X-03 holds that title (at a $3K pemium over the X-05).  Laundrew has an X-05 as well but I'll let him speak for himself.  Yo, Andy, are you out there?  Oh, and don't forget to read Neil Gader's review in TAS.

Bill

Hi Bill,

I've been eyeing those beasts  :o

Thanks

Stefan_DR3

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Re: SACD players
« Reply #19 on: 8 May 2012, 02:47 am »
I would go for an Oppo BDP-95.

I keep reading this, but I am worried about the fan noise (I sit like 2 feet away from the front end).  I am also a little worried about fan designs in general, in a setup that will be running all day sometimes.