[roncagg]

I've been reading this forum a lot over the last few months and after living with the signature 30 (30.2 partial upgrade) for that time I have some thoughts and a speaker comparison I'd like to share. Like other previous owners of 100+ watt SS amps, I had concerns about driving my lower efficiency speakers with 30 watts, though the sound of the Sig is so nice I wanted to make it work (I was astonished at the difference between the Sig and the Musical Fidelity a3.2 I had prior).
 
I love the sound of my Sig, and the sound (and look) of my Gallo reference 3.1s. While I don't often listen at very high volumes, I do like to crank it up sometimes... I was feeling that maybe the Sig needed more efficient speakers or a way to increase its power.

So like many of you I considered: 1) adding a (tube) preamp for some additional gain 2) trying more efficient speakers (the Gallos are 88db) or 3) updgrading to 70.2 or Liliana.

Cons of #1: additional expense, less direct signal path, unknown effect on RWA sound! Pros: tube sound, gain, more inputs
Cons of #2: hard to audition in-home w/out incurring restocking fees (e.g. with tekton), or endure the buy/sell/buy merry-go-round of audiogon. Pros: plays louder without clipping!
Cons of #3: only cost, otherwise a no-brainer!

My short list of high efficiency speakers, based on all of your helpful posts and google searches was Zu, Tekton, Omega. Luckily for me Louis of Omege is based in Norwalk, CT only 20 mins from my house and he kindly let me listen to some speakers in his shop, and bring home a pair of the super 6 XRS Alnico floorstanders for direct comparison with the Gallos. My system consists of CAL delta transport, Metrum Octave DAC, Sig 30(30.2), black cat (veloce digital), audioquest (diamondback interconnects) and kimber (8tc) cabling.

Now this was not scientific, double-blind listening (who else but me in my family do I trust to swap out interconnects and speaker wires!). These are my observations:
1) omegas offer amazing pinpoint imaging, a soundstage that makes them disappear, and impressive range of frequency response for a single driver (first I'd heard of that type of design)
2) the extra sensitivity was worth about 3 clicks on the Sig volume, which was great
3) on the downside, these were more forward which became fatiguing over time (could be they weren't broken in enough) and a little thinner sounding
4) the Gallos offered a more authoritative bottom end (no surprise there, and without the SA amp which I don't have), a "richer" fuller sound across the spectrum, were less forward and could handle more complex passages better in the sense of keeping all the instruments separated in the mix (I listen mostly to jazz combos and vocals, fusion)

So I'm keeping the Gallos, and I'm upgrading the 30.2 to the LFP-V version, which adds more current (to keep the Gallos happy) and a tube stage (for some fun). Hopefully the upgrade bug will leave for a while now (until the Lilianas are available second-hand!).

Thanks to Vinnie and Louis!

Ron Cagenello, Wilton CT

[Alwayswantmore]

For what its worth, I've owed every iteration of Sig 30 and two pairs of Omegas (Compact Hemp with a couple different subs and Super 6 Monitors with Deep Hemp).

The LFP-V tube stage is a plus no matter what you do. More body, better tone, ability to tube-role, among other benefits.

The Compact Hemp is the older driver (Hemp / Ferrite), where the Super 6 is newer with Alnico and a more updated design. The Compact Hemp could be forward with some source material. My Super 6s are never forward or fatiguing -- and I'm very in tune with this.

But we have other variables including room, source, etc. Again for whatever it is worth, I am a big fan of Vinnies DAC for digital.

Good luck with your quest for sonic bliss.

K

[roncagg]

Thanks, yes I'm sure my room has a lot to do with the characteristics of the sound I'm getting. The listening area is 22' wide by 13' deep, and my speakers are centered about 8' apart and I prefer somewhat nearfield listening at about 6-7' from them. There are sliding glass doors the whole width behind me, and high ceilings so it's probably not an ideal setup!

The Metrum is very revealing and I think the tube stage will have a nice effect and I look forward to tube rolling. I'm going to be comparing the Sig 15 and 30.2 in my setup next week - I'm interested in the difference given the 4ohm performance of the 15, how much will that affect its ability to drive the gallos compared to the 30.2, and what will the sonic differences be between class D and AB FET? I'll report...
R

[Braddles]

I will look forward to your comparison between the two amps.

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Ron,

Welcome aboard!

Like Braddles, I'm looking forward to your findings with the Gallos.

Cheers,

Vinnie

[roncagg]

Preliminary observations:  picked up the 30.2 LFP-V yesterday afternoon. It has a better grip on the bass of the Gallos, more authoritative and fuller/deeper than the original 30.2. What is surprising to me is the affect of the tube stage - it really does create a more three-dimensional soundstage, and more space around instruments while fleshing them out more (if that's not a contradiction). Vinnie's description of the improvements (in the manual and website) are spot on. Once I have a good sense of the sonics I'll swap out the sig. 15, which Vinnie let me borrow for comparison, and post more comments on that with the Gallos. Then maybe some tube rolling...

A not insignificant improvement over the original! BTW I listen to jazz: kurt elling, cassandra wilson, diana krall, roy haynes, brecker brothers, john scofield, madeleine peyroux, EST, wayne krantz, etc. etc.

Ron

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for posting your initial impressions of the 30.2 LFP-V Edition + Gallo combo, and looking forward to hearing how the Sig 15 does with them as well!

Glad you can easily hear what the LFP-V Edition offers over the original! 

Keep us posted!

Vinnie

[J-maxx]

Hello. My first post in this forum, but I figured this was a perfect opportunity to chime in.

I am running a Sig 15 with Gallo 3.1's in my NYC Apartment. Nutshell is that this pairing sounds amazing. The Gallo's staging and three dimensional imaging are further enhanced with the Sig. Were good before, but now achieve a depth and level I did not hear with previous amps I had used.

The Sig really has good control over bass with the Gallos. I used to run my Gallos with an amp to drive the 2nd voice coil, but am now just running the Sig. I never feel it lacking in the low end.

I guess i should add that being in a NYC apartment, I sit around 8' or so from the speakers, which i have toed in, and are around 8 - 9' apart. I usually listen at around 11, maybe 12 o'clock. Occasionally I am at 1, but it gets a bit too loud an apartment dweller.

I listen to all sorts of music - blues, bluegrass,folk and rock. Listening to some Danny Knicely and Will Lee (Mapleshade Records) at the moment. However, recently I have been rocking out with The Dead Weather, which sounds awesome. All music served off Mac Mini, much in hi-rez.

Recently rolled in a Telefunken tube, which is still breaking in, but defintely adds greater resolution and detail, more granular than stock tube.

Anyway, I wanted to pare down my system, simplify things, and Red Wine really has fit the bill to deliver pure music. Very good stuff.

J-maxx

[Braddles]

Hey Ron have you had a chance to listen to the sig 15 yet?

[roncagg]

J-maxx, thanks for chiming in! I had a similar experience with the sig. 15 and gallo 3.1 - but my room is bigger (and it's a house so I like to crank it) and I found that the 30.2 (LFP-V) had a more solid/weighty bottom end in my system that I liked. But interestingly, and surprising to me was how close they were in power (perceived loudness) to one another, very little was given up by going to 15 versus 30 watts. I don't know to what extent that is due to the 4ohm rating of the 15 (which is 30 watts), because I'm not sure at what points the Gallos present that load.

Otherwise there was little between the amps sonically - sometimes I felt the sig 15 had an advantage in the midrange (more "delicate"?), and punchiness (drum "attack"). But the foundation of the 30.2 seemed to anchor the sound in a way that provided more contrast between the low and high ends. Also worth noting is that the sig. 15 that Vinnie lent me was modified slightly to accommodate one of the tubes he's rolling, so of course I wonder how much of these perceived differences are related to the tube. In Vinnie's subsequent correspondence with me he characterized the difference between the amps as: "the 30.2 has more bottom end weight and foundation, while the 15 is "lighter on it's feet" and more airy" which I concur with. In general though, it's hard to remember what you're hearing from cut to cut, when you have to stop the CD, and switch out the speaker wires and DAC inputs, so sometimes I wondered if I was misremembering, or hearing real differences (which I guess is another way of saying that nothing really stood out as an obvious "wow" difference).

Another interesting thing that came out of these comparisons was where clipping occurred - different types of music caused clipping differently in the 2 amps. The 30.2 clipped at a lower perceived volume for drums (when they went really deep, bass drums and tom toms), where the 15 didn't, but the 15 clipped at a perceived lower volume for vocal/midrange type volume peaks. I asked Vinnie if he found a difference in tripath vs. A/B FET in musical content sensitivities as they relate to clipping at louder volumes, and he responded: "I'm not surprised about the clipping.  This will also vary based on the speaker and its impedance curve, and where it has its dips and peaks. The two output stages are very different.  The input stages are the same." Since it was the same speaker in both cases I found it interesting, and disappointing in the sense that when I'm listening at louder levels I don't want to have to worry about clipping - which of course is an argument for getting higher sensitivity speakers or the lilianas (way over budget)!

So there you have it. I will keep the 30.2, because it was a trade-in and therefore not much more than a new sig. 15, but these tests have me ultimately wanting the lilianas, so I can crank it without reservation... Maybe in a year or so they will show up on Audiogon. Love that Red Wine sound!

Ron

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for posting your impressions of the Sig 30.2 and Sig 15 with your Gallo 3.1s!

Cheers!

Vinnie