[airhead]

I would appreciate some advice about cartridges.  I have a Well Tempered Classic table and arm, with a very old van den Hul MC One, which is getting worn.  I am quite satisfied with its sound.  Someone suggested getting it retipped, which does seem to still be possible.  But there are other options I could consider:

a.  The Lyra Delos has been highly recommended, and has good reviews.  Some say it is thin in the upper bass, others deny it.
     Since that is a weakness of my system already, I'm a bit leery. 
b.  Benz Micro, such as one of the wood cartridges, possibly even a Gullwing.
c.  A more high end van den Hul, such as a Frog or Condor.  (The latter is supposed to be especially warm.)
d.  Grado Signature 1 has been highly recommended, by a friend who knows the speakers I have.  (Stax F83 + RM subwoofers).

Option a has the advantage of being less expensive than the other choices, and also I have local dealer support for this and Benz Micro. I don't want to spend too much time auditioning, since I prefer just listening to music, so advice is welcome.

Thanks.

[Ericus Rex]

Since you're happy with the sound of your current VDH why not get it retipped by Soundsmith for $450 and keep it going for another 2,000 hours?  That'd certainly be your cheapest option.

[neobop]

You can send it to Van den Hul - just take it to your VdH dealer. If there is no local dealer you can send it yourself. In the US get in touch with Bluebird Music, the distributor.

[BaMorin]

I hope he meant to say Sonata-1 instead of Signature 1.......as the later has been out of production since about 1976-77.  The Sonata will have plenty of accurate bass information.

[airhead]

I hope he meant to say Sonata-1 instead of Signature 1.......as the later has been out of production since about 1976-77.  The Sonata will have plenty of accurate bass information.

Here is a link to a current review of the Signature1:

http://www.gradolabs.com/page_cartridges.php?item=6cab761eea50a3a98932b3273d71af67

[BaMorin]

Here is a link to a current review of the Signature1:

http://www.gradolabs.com/page_cartridges.php?item=6cab761eea50a3a98932b3273d71af67

Not to sound anal, but that link says Statement 1.......not Signature 1.  I don't think Joe Grado allows his Nephew the right to use the term "Signature" in relation to Grado products.

[airhead]

Thank you for your correction, I apologize for being sloppy.

Now, I am hoping for more advice.  I am quite tempted by the idea of a van den Hul Condor. but worry
that it may be too fragile, especially with no local dealer.

[neobop]

Although I have some experience with the Well Tempered Classic, I never heard it with the carts you're contemplating. You had good results with the MC-1, and it is a good reason to stick with VdH. You can probably get a trade in and VdH can custom make it for your arm.
http://www.vandenhul.com/p_A04.aspx

You also mentioned a Benz Gullwing and a Lyra, both look just as delicate. By the specs, I'm guessing that the Lyra would be better with your arm. Compliance is 15 with the Benz, it seems a little stiff to be at it's best. The Lyra is 12cu @ 100Hz which is more like 20 or 22 @ standard 10Hz. That should work out better. The Kleos might be a better choice, with midrange warmth, and a more seductive sound?

The Grado should work as well. In my experience nothing sounds better with vocals than a good Grado. They tend to have big bass and might give you that sound you're looking for in the mid-bass. Depending on what you listen to, it might not do it all on complex passages. I've never heard a Statement, so I'm going by reviews and my experience with lesser ones. Have you checked with the Well Tempered Circle?

[airhead]

I'm still going round and round with the cartridge decision.  I am reminding myself that I don't want to spend time fooling with aligning and realigning
a delicate cartridge, worrying about every bit of resolution, etc. etc. I need time to listen to music.  I'd very much prefer to just take my table to my local dealer and have him set up a new cartridge and leave it at that.  The most likely bet is going to be the Lyra Delos.  However, it seems that I may be manufacturer support for dealer support.  I can't find any information on line about Lyra's warranty or repair/retip policy, or expected stylus life.  Van den Hul (here I go again) will retip or repair fork  $500 or so, has a three year warranty, and an expected stylus life of 3500 hours.  So the Frog at $3200 may be a better long term
investment than a Lyra.  If my local dealer would sell me  a Frog I would buy it, but I'm still reluctant to buy one from an East Coast dealer and worry about the installation myself.  (It does have the same basic geometry and characteristics of my current MC One, so I'm confident it would work well.)

Probably hopeless to get any advice from people, but I thought I'd at least vent. 

[neobop]

Maybe you should get the Lyra and send the MC1 off to VdH.  By the time it comes back you could sell one or the other - either a slightly used Delos (Kleos?) or a VdH re-tipped MC1. Just save the receipts.

[airhead]

Maybe you should get the Lyra and send the MC1 off to VdH.  By the time it comes back you could sell one or the other - either a slightly used Delos (Kleos?) or a VdH re-tipped MC1. Just save the receipts.

This has definitely occurred to me.  I had considered a Kleos, since it is at the top of my budget, but if I do that I won't be able to afford to get the One retyped.  In any case, although I would be willing to spend $3000 for a Frog that was repairable and retippable and would last 3000 hours, I won't spend that much for a Kleos that will last 1000 hours and can't be repaired.  If I get a Delos it will be  a Lyra.  I suppose then if I don't like it after a few months I could try to sell it.  My dealer doesn't allow home audition of cartridges.  can't really fault him for that, I guess. 

[neobop]

Trade in on Delos is $1150 at Needle Dr.  Diamond longevity is mostly dependant on quality and polish of the diamond. I doubt if 3500 hrs is guaranteed, more like what's possible. I would think that Lyra uses high quality diamonds and 1000 hrs is probably the minimum to expect. Even though Delos is an LC type vs micro, that seems like an unrealistic spread.

Please let us know how all this turns out.

[airhead]

Trade in on Delos is $1150 at Needle Dr.  Diamond longevity is mostly dependant on quality and polish of the diamond. I doubt if 3500 hrs is guaranteed, more like what's possible. I would think that Lyra uses high quality diamonds and 1000 hrs is probably the minimum to expect. Even though Delos is an LC type vs micro, that seems like an unrealistic spread.

Please let us know how all this turns out.

Thanks.  I didn't quite understand what you said about LC type vs micro.  Of course, van den Hul is also LC type.  Which is supposed to have a longer life,
LC or micro (is that short for micro ridge)?

[neobop]

Micros would include micro ridge, micro line, VdH, Gyger, Replicant.

Line contact or fine line, while having more vertical contact than elliptical or conical, do not replicate the groove profile like micros. It is commonly thought that more vertical contact = less record wear, less noise, and greater diamond longevity, all else being equal.  I think diamond polish and quality, and clean records is the greatest factor.

[airhead]

Trade in on Delos is $1150 at Needle Dr.  Diamond longevity is mostly dependant on quality and polish of the diamond. I doubt if 3500 hrs is guaranteed, more like what's possible. I would think that Lyra uses high quality diamonds and 1000 hrs is probably the minimum to expect. Even though Delos is an LC type vs micro, that seems like an unrealistic spread.

Please let us know how all this turns out.

The Needledoctor site is ambiguous, but after sniffing around elsewhere it seems to me that the $1150 figure means that that's what you pay
for a new Delos if you send in any other Lyra cartridge.  So for example that would be the cost of replacing a worn out Delos with a new one.  Twice the price of retyping a van den Hul, regardless of which model it is.  On the other hand, how much longer will AJ really be in business?  or me for that matter?

[catastrofe]

Contact Dale at Eugene HiFi (eugenehifi.com) regarding your Van Den Hul.  Great resource, and I'm sure he can provide some guidance.

[Gothover]

Since you're happy with the sound of your current VDH why not get it retipped by Soundsmith for $450 and keep it going for another 2,000 hours?  That'd certainly be your cheapest option.

I recently had my Helikon retipped by Soundsmith, and gotta say its good as new. Simply amazing work.

Dave

[airhead]

Contact Dale at Eugene HiFi (eugenehifi.com) regarding your Van Den Hul.  Great resource, and I'm sure he can provide some guidance.

Thanks for this advice.  A very helpful fellow, who strongly recommends  a Frog.   I would really like to stay with van den Hul, but  i am still worried about this since Eugene is too far for him to really help with setup.  I'm trying to work out something with my local dealer, perhaps with him involved.  I'm not sure it makes sense to really use a dealer hundreds of miles away.

[airhead]

I am writing to thank you again for recommending Eugene HiFi.  It took a long time, and involved convincing
my local dealer here to start carrying the Van den Hul line of cartridges.  (Eugene HiFi has taken over
distributorship.)  I did end up with a Frog Gold, which I brought home last night and have just started listening to.
Very very happy so far.  Especially striking:  the sweet extended highs, very low surface noise, great separation,
and overall transparency. 

[Sonny]

Don't now if anyone has mentioned the Benz Ace SL, but I just got a refurbished one (direct from Benz) and it's marvelous!  I picked up and also an original VPI Classic 1 table and mine, what a combo!  It gives my DIY table/Shelter 901 a go for sure!

Look into the Benz!

Tuan