[EthanH]

So, I'm looking to upgrade my system and would like some feedback.  System is currently:  Onix XCD88 CD player - Yamaha M60 amp / Cayin TA30 integrated amp - diy monitors using H1212 tweeter and seas L18.

The speakers give me good bass for a small monitor, and are pretty decent overall.  I've owned totem and B&W 602 before these, and the diy monitors are a big step up.  They are not efficient though, so the 35 watt Cayin does not sound as good as my Yamaha M series amp from the 80s. 

My thoughts for upgrading are as follows, in order from least $ to most $$$.

1.  Attempt to further tweak my speakers - I could try a different tweeter and lower the xover point from 2khz to 1.5khz in order to get the L18's breakup 5 or 10 more db down.  Not sure how much better this will be, considering the breakup is already 35db down. 

2.  Buy a preamp/dac combo.  I'd like to avoid a digital volume control or other passive control as I like a fuller sound.  But maybe I could find a good preamp/dac with remote control for around a grand?  Perhaps just getting a dac would give me big gains?  I don't know of any good dac/active preamp combo with remote control for under 2 grand.

3.  Buy an active preamp.  Never had a preamp so not sure what the effect of this will be.  The Yamaha M60 was a decent amp in its day, so maybe a good used preamp would give me a big upgrade?

4.  Buy a new integrated amp.  Don't know if a plinius or ~2k integrated would be better than using the Yamaha with a good pre.

5.  New speakers.  I have to confess that I'm a speaker guy - I just think speakers make the biggest impact to a system.  I'm tempted to build some new speakers, maybe selahs or something, or buy something used.  But then I wonder if my own setup would sound much better if I upgraded my other equipment, or if new speakers would even make sense without first upgrading my source/amplification, etc.

Opinions welcome.

[JohnR]

Since you like building speakers, I'm tempted to suggest that you might consider a measurement rig that you can use with REW/FuzzMeasure/HolmImpulse/etc as the next "upgrade."

[EthanH]

I realize now that I should have put a little more info in my original post.  What am I looking to improve?  Well, I'd like more resolution, a more fleshed out sound, maybe less listener fatigue.  If I'm buying electronics, a remote for volume control would also be nice.

I suppose I should first determine whether I should dump the bulk of my cash into higher quality speakers, or if I should address any bottleneck in my system created by my current electronics.  In particular, I wonder how much better my present system could be with a better source (dac) or with an active preamp instead of using my power amp's gain controls. 

With regard to measuring equipment, I'd like to get a mic and software at some point, but really don't have the skills to design a competent xover at this point. 

[JLM]

I agree with you regarding the importance of speakers.   

So as long as your speakers are DIY already, why not try tweaking them some more?  Unfortunately DIY projects offer little resale value, so have at it.

Don't know your taste, budget, or the damping factor of the Cayin, but I love my Bob Brines FTA-2000 speakers.  With EnABL, the "mighty" Fostex F200A AlNiCo drivers are highly resolving yet musical without excess warmth (IMO).  As single driver designs they image perfectly, yet reach in room below 30 Hz.  Bob sells plans or pre-cut kits.  Contact Bud Purvine (the developer) or check out DIYaudio.com for EnABLing.

[lonewolfny42]

Opinions welcome

Think of your system as this tree...(see above).



Strong roots.....lead to a full trunk....and a nice quantity of branches and leaves over flowing.


The roots...source of food for the tree (system)...a Cd player or TT or other source.


The trunk....a quality amp/preamp or integrated.


The branches and leaves....speakers.


They all work together....synergy.

[cujobob]

A kit speaker, perhaps? Plenty of bang for your buck out there with speakers either through the used market or building one yourself from a well respected kit. Put most of your money there.

The differences between the other equipment is much smaller from good to great like it is with speakers. There are even some great DIY amps available...First Watt clones, Class D, and plenty of others.

I went with efficient speakers that allow me to need very little power and would never go back. The flexibility and headroom is very nice.

[JLM]

From what I know of the Cayin, it is a very nice piece.  I forgot to explain that the Fostex F200A drivers go deep and caused a smaller tube integrated to get flabby (loose bass), so make sure the Cayin has decent damping.

High efficiency/small amps are the Lotus (car analogy) approach (light on their feet and dynamic), lots of fun.  But high efficiency speakers will reveal any system noise, can severely limit useful range of the volume control, and (in my experience) most provide a very colored sound.  My ideal speaker efficiency would be 93 dB/w/m into 8 ohms (not quite what most think of as high efficiency) to balance out all these concerns.

There is no perfect speaker.  And speakers should be considered in light of your tastes and the room.

[EthanH]

Thanks for the replies.  I like the Cayin and feel like it's sort of a shame that it's just sitting there unused, but I think I don't have the space right now for a speaker that will produce the low end impact I like with the Cayin.  I've come to feel that small speakers with good low end just aren't meant for ~30 watt tube integrateds. 

I'm toying with the idea of trying a ~$1000 used dac/pre with remote control.  Maybe a bel canto 1.5 or benchmark hdr or something. I'm just nervous that it won't be a significant upgrade to the Onix XCD88 -> Yamaha M60 using the yammie's gain knobs for volume control.

Then again, the thought of building some new kit speakers is tempting.  Or splurging/saving for some SP Tech monitors or a JRDG Concerto...

[Ericus Rex]

I doubt a dac would give you the significant bump you're looking for.  I've found the differences in sound between good Cd players and well reviewed dacs to be quite subtle.

I'd go with a tubed preamp or tinker around with the speakers.

[EthanH]

thanks for the input! I've noted little difference in my system between digital sources aside from relative output voltage, so my exact fear is spending $1500 on a bel canto or W4S dac and not noticing a significant jump in sound quality compared to the onix.  I'm sure both of the aforementioned dacs are better than the onix but I have a suspicion that in my system a good active tube preamp would have a bigger impact.

I just wonder if I could find a good active tube pre with remote for around $1500 used...

[Ericus Rex]

There are a few options with remote in that price range.  You can find a Rogue 99 for around $1,200 (linestage only) - that's what I currently have and I like it.  You could find a Melos if your patient.  Maybe even a used DeHavilland with remote for that price.  The Dehav and the Rogue use the 6SN7 tube which should satisfy your desire for a rich, full sound.