Need amplifier recommendation for Super-V

dkmooers · « **on:** 2 Apr 2012, 10:20 pm »

Hey all,

Building a Super-V and doing some amp shopping. I'll have the A370PEQ amps for the subs, but need two channels of amplification for the P-Audio drivers.

Based on what I've read, Class T amps seem to be an economical way to go. I've been looking at the Charlize2, the hifimediy amps, Autocostruire, Temple Audio, even Dayton. I'd prefer to get a finished or at least assembled amp, rather than solder everything myself.

Why not get a $2000 set of monoblocks? Well, just graduated university last year and I'm on a limited budget. Looking or something $300 or less. I can upgrade down the line when I'm making more money. This is for a home recording studio.

Shortlist:

Dayton DTA-100a
Charlize2
Bantam Gold

Any recommendations? I've also read something about phase issues when combining Class T amps with other types of amps when bi-amping (as in the Super-V). Is that a real problem?

HT cOz · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Apr 2012, 01:41 am »

Consider the 125asx modules/amp from Ghent on diyaudio.

I have one and it is very nice.

Tyson · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Apr 2012, 03:35 am »

Forget the T-Amps - get a used tube amp. Tubes plus high efficiency drivers = magic.

Jonathon Janusz · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Apr 2012, 03:48 am »

. . . or if you would like to try out a t-amp (or would rather avoid tubes), a used Virtue One/Two would be near the top of your target budget and also a very good implementation of tripath. My Sensation sounds pretty good with the p-audio coaxial, but if I were to change one thing in it when using this driver, I would maybe use a different filter capacitor on the output than a sonicap (I've got sonicaps with platinum bypasses in my amp). Kind of like Danny found success putting the Jupiter cap in the crossover, I might lean in the direction of that flavor of cap in the amp for the same reasons. Also, going with many of the t-amp options out there would get you an opportunity to inexpensively experiment with battery power if you would like, and many people have said the benefits of going to batteries match very well with high efficiency drivers.

. . . not that there is anything wrong with a used tube amp, mind you. . .

HT cOz · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Apr 2012, 04:42 pm »

Quote from: Tyson on 3 Apr 2012, 03:35 am

Forget the T-Amps - get a used tube amp. Tubes plus high efficiency drivers = magic.

What recomendation is there for a good tube amp at $300 or less? Heck a good pair of power tubes usually costs $100 for the tubes alone.

At this budget, I would think chip amp, T amp, Ice Amp and save for a Dodd Buffer kit to add tube goodness.

S Clark · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Apr 2012, 04:56 pm »

You could look for a pair of vintage Eico HF-12 amps on ebay, as they often go for less than $150 apiece. These are mono integrated, and the same circuitry as the much hyped (overhyped?) Eico HF-81. If anything, a pair of monos create better sound as each channel has it's own power transformer and everything is split in two. They will give you everything except earth shaking bass. There is a reason that they are held in high regard, beautiful mids. The HF-12 monos are excellent amps at a bargain. You can often find them with the original Mullard tubes- 6bq5, 6ca4, and 12au7. At 12-14 watts, they supply all the power you need for the Super V.
There main drawback is that they are ugly little devils.

HT cOz · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Apr 2012, 04:59 pm »

Here are some fun recomendations that might work along the posts from above.

Chip amp http://www.dalaudio.com/Dalaudio-Retro-3886-Chip-Amp-STD-p/dalr3886std-r2.htm

Ice Power 50ASX2 http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/648945928-ice_power_50asx2_custom_artwork_/

Ice Power 125ASX2 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/193289-fs-icepower-125asx2-module-16.html

Tripath http://www.maedos.com/ -> Tim has something new coming that is not on his website yet

Party on

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Apr 2012, 06:20 pm »

Try posting the request in the Tube-O-Phile circle and see what comes up. The speaker does not need alot of power.

nickd · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Apr 2012, 08:47 pm »

I have an older NAD 3020 amp in a spare bedroom. Hooked it up to the Super V once just for kicks.

Much better than you would think. Not the refinement of my PBN SA1 or Ayon Spirit III, but I bet you can pick one up for $150.00

That P audio tweeter likes bipolar transistors. A little dry maybe but nice high hat detail.

If you find somthing better later, the NAD is very easy to sell. The no-name switching amps are a life time investment.

dkmooers · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Apr 2012, 02:13 am »

Thanks for the tips everyone! I went to my local used hi-fi store today and found a Creek 4140. Does that use bipolar transistors? How do you know, in general, which amps use bipolar transistors?

Also, the guy in that store said tube amps generally lack high end. Is that true? These speakers will be for recording studio work, and I self-master everything, so I am really striving for accuracy / tonal balance / detail.

dkmooers · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Apr 2012, 02:27 am »

Actually, read this about the Creek 4040:

"The Creek 4040 was very solid in its sound delivering stable and enough current. It was/is British in sound, conservative with a rolloff in the highs. Bottom end was never boomy but not rich. Competition was the Rogers integrated, Naim Nait(more expensive) and of course NAD (cheaper). Usually paired with British monitors such as Rogers, KEF or B&W."

Is that true? Is there a rolloff in the highs with these kinds of amps + tube amps? If so, my masters would tend toward the bright end of the spectrum.

Has anyone tried Tripath amps with the P-Audio driver? Would they sound bad, or moderately good enough for now, until I upgrade? (I'm eyeing the Ncore N400...)

HT cOz · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Apr 2012, 02:59 am »

Well that makes things more interesting. Ncore 400 is probably worth eyeing but those push $2k fully built out into mono blocks.

The Virtue amps are worth investigating. I would keep the chip amp on the table. Uriah Dailey has a mod to the chip amp that is getting good traction on diy audio.

The ICE amps are super quick and details but they have a reputation of rolling off the highs. Certainly can't use a passive pre with them.

I wonder if you could find a Dayens Alpino (not sure I spelled that correctly). That might work well.

Don't hesitate calling Danny.

I'll keep thinking. As this is about the budget I spend a lot of time playing around in. ROFL.

cujobob · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Apr 2012, 04:27 am »

Bad tube amps tended to lack some high end definition and have a bit of midrange Tube...iness. The bass can also be anemic with bad tube amps. But done right, tube amps are very accurate. The Super V take very little power which definitely helps so there are plenty of good choices. If you're looking to go cheap for the time being, I'd recommend a good chip amp, but I did some reading earlier on the Dayton amp you mentioned and it seems to be quite popular.

The Class D Audio stuff is really popular and worth checking into, as well.

A personal favorite I must mention is a First Watt F5 clone which I absolutely adored. I wish I still had mine.

Oscillate · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Apr 2012, 01:57 pm »

From the GR Research website, "The Super-V has 97db sensitivity and is an easy 8 ohm load.
So they can be driven easily with even single digit amps."

"A personal favorite I must mention is a First Watt F5 clone which I absolutely adored. I
wish I still had mine."

I purchased CujoBob's, Tim Rawson built FirstWatt F5 clone ...and it's not going anywhere

Try checking Audiogon.com for one of Tim's F5 clones or even one of his chip amps. These
would all be within your price range and deliver a quality sound.

dkmooers · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Apr 2012, 09:53 pm »

Thanks everyone! No F5 clones available on AudioGon at the moment. So I went ahead and placed an offer on an Ampino. Looks like a rock-solid choice for the Super V.

Toaster · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Apr 2012, 08:23 am »

The F5, properly built, sounds excellent. My friend The Guitarist has built two for his active system, along with the B1 buffer which is also great sounding. Setting up the bias can be a bit fiddly, but it just takes a bit of patience. The only real issue with the B1/ F5 is gain, but with speakers as sensitive as Super Vs this is not a problem. Strongly recommended and an extraordinary price: performance ratio as a DIY project, just as the Super Vs themselves seem to be.

dkmooers · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Apr 2012, 05:09 pm »

So after much deliberation, I'm going to pull the trigger on the Bantam Gold amp. Should I get the bypassed volume knob? Or am I going to need that volume knob to balance the levels between the subs and the P-audio coax drivers?

In amplifiers, generally, is there a significant gain in sound quality by removing the volume knob? (Or is it a niggling difference?)

dkmooers · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 Apr 2012, 05:27 pm »

Also, if I have the volume pot at full gain, that's basically the same as bypassing it, right? It's only when you start to attenuate the signal that you might get coloration?

chip · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Apr 2012, 06:23 pm »

Quote from: dkmooers on 17 Apr 2012, 05:09 pm

So after much deliberation, I'm going to pull the trigger on the Bantam Gold amp. Should I get the bypassed volume knob? Or am I going to need that volume knob to balance the levels between the subs and the P-audio coax drivers?

In amplifiers, generally, is there a significant gain in sound quality by removing the volume knob? (Or is it a niggling difference?)

What is the price on this amp? ....looks like $300

MichaelHiFi · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Apr 2012, 10:00 pm »

You're into the Super V's for XX dollars and want to spend no more than $300 on the amp?

First question. Do you have the Jupiter cap upgrade? It will be more forgiving on the digital amp choice. If not, I'd be very wary.

I've been using the Onix SP3. It sounds wonderful on the Super V's! I used the stock tubes and didn't feel the need to tube roll. But as your budget allows, there's an upgrade approach.

I doubt you'll find one for $300, but perhaps 5 - $600 used. I know someone who'll have one for sale too. It was the one I was using

The amp I'm using now is X4 the original cost of the Onix and not worth it - so far.

Happy hunting.