Fuse(s) upgrade. Worth it?

AudioLifer · « **on:** 31 Mar 2012, 03:29 pm »

Was wondering if anyone changed the fuse(s) inside the BDP-1 to upmarket types, such as Hifi Tuning? If so, was it worth it?

Cheers, Robert

NMG · « **Reply #1 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 04:21 pm »

Not on BDP-1, but installed top of the line Hi-Fi Tuning Fuse in my preamp and it made an immediate and notable improvement for the better. Made sound smoother, more natural. Would be interested to hear your experience if you do it. Not sure what size it is, or Fast or Slo-Blo.

Neal

AudioLifer · « **Reply #2 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 07:46 pm »

Neal, I have Hifi Tuning Supreme fuses in my tube amps and tube preamp and love what they do. Like you say, an immediate difference - smoother and more natural, with more transparency and a better defined soundstage. But for some reason, probably foolish, I get the impression that upmarket fuses might not work as well on solid state sources, such as CD players, phonos or, now, the BDP-1. On the other hand, if changing the fuse(s) inside a BDP-1 provides similar results to those obtained from a fuse change in a preamp, then my mind just may be blown. (And when it comes to audio, getting one's mind blown is always fun.)

Robert

unincognito · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Apr 2012, 03:27 am »

Hi all,

As a software engineer it is my opinion and only my opinion (I don't want to come off as trying to be pushy) that until you get to the analog side of a dac that something like that won't make a bit of difference. However I have spoken to customers that have told me that it does sound better. TO me it's all just one's and zero's, meaning it doesn't make the slightest difference.

Cheers,
Chris

NMG · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Apr 2012, 07:13 pm »

To Audiolifer:

I have a W4S DAC2 and have read on Audiogon chat room of several members who have installed HiFi Tuning fuses in this SS DAC with stellar results. Laziness is only reason I have not done it in the DAC or the BDP-1 -- so many bloody screws to take out then reinsert! I'll get to it.

Do you know what specs and Fast blo v Slow blo fuse the BDP-1 uses?

To Unincognito:

To this day, I have not seen an audio engineer coherently explain why one power cord sounds better than another or why they should make any difference at all. So when it comes to these things, I just listen and then decide. The science will catch up eventually.

Peace.

Neal

unincognito · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Apr 2012, 09:24 pm »

Hi Neal,

What i am trying to say is yes with the BDA (or any other DAC, preamp, amp) i suppose it could make a difference as at that point you are dealing with an analog signal. However as the BDP-1 is purely digital, i honestly do not believe it truly matters how clean the signal is. Once it comes out either the xlr or bnc connector the data can only be a zero or a one. There are are only the two possibilities, so no matter how imperfect the wave is the DAC will be able to decode the signal without any loss of data or deprecated sound.

Cheers,
Chris

AudioLifer · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Apr 2012, 02:45 pm »

Quote from: unincognito on 4 Apr 2012, 03:27 am

Hi all,

TO me it's all just one's and zero's, meaning it doesn't make the slightest difference.

Cheers,
Chris

Sorry, Chris, but that's just audiophile heresy.

It's engineer speak, cold and clinical, like your other post where you say an external hard drive is better than a flash drive, not because it sounds better but because it gives more bang for the buck! That is not an audiophile statement. That is engineer speak. And a cheap engineer, too.

All kidding aside, if I understand your position, you're saying that compared to a cheapo stock power cord, a well-constructed/designed one should make no difference in the signal from a CD transport, and that has simply not been my experience. I'm no engineer, but it seems to me that a proper cord helps to eliminate a/c noise and rfi that interferes with the component's circuitry/software and degrades the signal, achieving, at the end of the line, a cleaner output, even in the transmission of one's and zero's. Can you imagine a Stereophile or TAS reviewer using a cheapo stock cord on their mega-buck CD transport? Me neither. Why not? Because they don't want a cheapo cord compromising the sound of their equipment.

By that logic, if a fuse change reduces the amount of grunge that contaminates the BDP-1, could the signal that it transmits to a DAC be more perfect? I admit that your negative engineer speak has me worried, because unless someone takes the plunge to change the fuse then who knows how much of a difference it makes. Maybe it's worth the change, maybe not. I might try it but I'm reluctant because I don't like wasting money. But I'd be surprised, considering that a fuse is connected to the power supply, that some benefit can't be achieved.

Neal, thanks for the heads up on the W4S DAC. Considering what you've heard from other owners, I encourage you to "just do it!" Unscrew those screws and change that fuse! It sounds like a great way to get better sound from your unit without spending an arm and a leg. And there's nothing like a good, cheap upgrade to make one's day.

As for the BDP-1, it uses two fuses, one for the standby power supply (which I assume is pretty useless to change) and one for the main power supply, which is the potential sweet spot. Both fuses are 5*20mm slow-blows.

Hope that helps. Cheers, Robert

unincognito · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Apr 2012, 04:56 pm »

Hi Robert,

That all fine and dandy but your comparing the BDP-1 to CD Transports, quite frankly the only cd transport i'm even slightly familiar with is the BCD-1, which has a DAC built in it. So if your using the DAC that is integrated into your CD Transport, then yes by all mean i could potentially see a better cable helping. As the BDP-1 is purely digital i just can't see it. When the BDP-1 first launched and i started helping out with some of the support calls customer/resellers, some would ask if they should use bnc or balanced xlr. I had no idea which was better at the time, i'm by no means an audiophile so i asked my boss about it and he gave me an answer which at this point i have long forgotten. I have forgotten; First, because after taking a couple minutes to think about it for myself it shouldn't actually make a difference. Two because the audiophile is the kind of person that really listens, type of person that knows what he or she likes. So why on gods green earth should i of all people be trying to tell someone which one is better, i can provide my opinion (which is in theory they should sound the same as its all digital). So thats what i do, i also mention that if you get a chance to audition a cable, then sure by all means check it and if you can hear a difference then great, if you think its worth buying then hey, its your money and you like. My goal here at Bryston Ltd. is to make sure you have the best listening experience possible and that you enjoy our products.

Cheers,
Chris

AudioLifer · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Apr 2012, 06:06 pm »

Quote from: unincognito on 5 Apr 2012, 04:56 pm

My goal here at Bryston Ltd. is to make sure you have the best listening experience possible and that you enjoy our products.

Cheers,
Chris

The reason we audiophiles debate the minutia of connections and hard drives and what have you as they relate to your product is exactly because we enjoy your product and like to have fun with it. We also believe that measurements don't tell the whole story as it pertains to musicality, and that certain 'subjective truths' exist outside the technical that are generally accepted by the audiophile community. As you know, from a current engineer's standpoint, bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly. It's when you see them fly that you know there are some things science hasn't figured out yet. In a figurative sense, audiophiles prefer watching bumblebees fly then knowing how they do it.

Bottom line, it's all done in fun, whether from a technical or listening standpoint. We're all on the same side, trying to make things a little better. And no doubt Bryston and its team continue to believe in that philosophy.

Cheers, Robert

werd · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Apr 2012, 07:27 pm »

Quote from: unincognito on 5 Apr 2012, 04:56 pm

Hi Robert,

That all fine and dandy but your comparing the BDP-1 to CD Transports, quite frankly the only cd transport i'm even slightly familiar with is the BCD-1, which has a DAC built in it. So if your using the DAC that is integrated into your CD Transport, then yes by all mean i could potentially see a better cable helping. As the BDP-1 is purely digital i just can't see it. When the BDP-1 first launched and i started helping out with some of the support calls customer/resellers, some would ask if they should use bnc or balanced xlr. I had no idea which was better at the time, i'm by no means an audiophile so i asked my boss about it and he gave me an answer which at this point i have long forgotten. I have forgotten; First, because after taking a couple minutes to think about it for myself it shouldn't actually make a difference. Two because the audiophile is the kind of person that really listens, type of person that knows what he or she likes. So why on gods green earth should i of all people be trying to tell someone which one is better, i can provide my opinion (which is in theory they should sound the same as its all digital). So thats what i do, i also mention that if you get a chance to audition a cable, then sure by all means check it and if you can hear a difference then great, if you think its worth buying then hey, its your money and you like. My goal here at Bryston Ltd. is to make sure you have the best listening experience possible and that you enjoy our products.

Cheers,
Chris

Hello

Ok here in lies the problem with your opinion. And its not that your not allowed your own opinion. The problem is that there is an entire community of people who troll this hobby with the attitude that stuff like this doesn't make a difference. What your opinion does (also that you are a audio manufucture), it really makes it hard for us to generate any conversation about our listening experiences when now they have you saying none of this should matter. Even when you try and backpeddle by allowing customer's to generate their own opinions free of yours.

It really doesn't work like that. At the end of the day they are going to hear " i can provide my opinion (which is in theory they should sound the same as its all digital)".

Stuff like that is really bad for the hobby..... But hey its your opinion and your free to have.

P.S

dont make me come down there...

ronman · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Apr 2012, 05:31 pm »

Yip. I believe it does make a positive difference. So much so that I changed the 2 fuses in the BDA-1 too. Then every fuse in the entire stereo / av system. Using silver Furutech (only because its real difficult to source other brands around here.........would love to compare differences between upmarket fuses if I could)

Sasha · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Apr 2012, 05:52 pm »

Quote from: unincognito on 4 Apr 2012, 03:27 am

Hi all,

As a software engineer it is my opinion and only my opinion (I don't want to come off as trying to be pushy) that until you get to the analog side of a dac that something like that won't make a bit of difference. However I have spoken to customers that have told me that it does sound better. TO me it's all just one's and zero's, meaning it doesn't make the slightest difference.

Cheers,
Chris

You forgot the very important sound quality impacting jitter. Anything that sends digital signal to a DAC, such as BDP-1, will send a certain amount of jitter. Whether fuse in BDP-1 has an impact on the amount of jitter remains to be tested, but regardless of that, it is clearly not only ones and zeros. Up in the digital chain between various production components that remain strictly in digital domain you may say that the major concern is bit preservation, but as soon as you come near conversion stage jitter plays an enormous role.

Devil Doc · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Apr 2012, 06:40 pm »

See Roger Modjeski's recent thread on the damage audiophool fuses can cause.

Doc.

terrycym · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Apr 2012, 07:10 pm »

Quote from: werd on 5 Apr 2012, 07:27 pm

Hello

Ok here in lies the problem with your opinion. And its not that your not allowed your own opinion. The problem is that there is an entire community of people who troll this hobby with the attitude that stuff like this doesn't make a difference. What your opinion does (also that you are a audio manufucture), it really makes it hard for us to generate any conversation about our listening experiences when now they have you saying none of this should matter. Even when you try and backpeddle by allowing customer's to generate their own opinions free of yours.

It really doesn't work like that. At the end of the day they are going to hear " i can provide my opinion (which is in theory they should sound the same as its all digital)".

Stuff like that is really bad for the hobby..... But hey its your opinion and your free to have.

P.S

dont make me come down there...

Hey man, calm down! Chris adds a great deal of value to this forum, don't chase him away!
Not too sure what value you are bringing putting Chris down in the way that you do?

werd · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Apr 2012, 11:29 pm »

Quote from: terrycym link=topic=105028.msg1077739#msg1077739 :dunno:date=1334430609

Hey man, calm down! Chris adds a great deal of value to this forum, don't chase him away!
Not too sure what value you are bringing putting Chris down in the way that you do?

Don,t know what to say

adprom · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Apr 2012, 07:18 am »

Quote from: werd on 5 Apr 2012, 07:27 pm

Ok here in lies the problem with your opinion. And its not that your not allowed your own opinion. The problem is that there is an entire community of people who troll this hobby with the attitude that stuff like this doesn't make a difference.

Except it doesn't make a difference and there is absolutely no evidence to back it up. In some countries, selling something without proof of the benefit it adds is illegal.

Just because people don't support some of the religious beliefs around audio, doesn't make them trolls either.

There is a difference between an opinion backed with evidence and science, and one backed with little more than religious like beliefs. I'm sure those who buy this sort of crap also make an effort to ensure all the other fuses in their power box, power substation etc are also the same quality...

terrycym · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 Apr 2012, 08:50 am »

Quote from: adprom on 25 Apr 2012, 07:18 am

Except it doesn't make a difference and there is absolutely no evidence to back it up. In some countries, selling something without proof of the benefit it adds is illegal.

Just because people don't support some of the religious beliefs around audio, doesn't make them trolls either.

There is a difference between an opinion backed with evidence and science, and one backed with little more than religious like beliefs. I'm sure those who buy this sort of crap also make an effort to ensure all the other fuses in their power box, power substation etc are also the same quality...

http://asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/2011/1/Russ-Andrews-Accessories-Ltd/TF_ADJ_49597.aspx

Nuff said!

adprom · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Apr 2012, 09:08 am »

Quote from: terrycym on 25 Apr 2012, 08:50 am

http://asa.org.uk/ASA-action/Adjudications/2011/1/Russ-Andrews-Accessories-Ltd/TF_ADJ_49597.aspx

Nuff said!

There are quite a few cases in Aus of similar cases as well - although more general that I have seen. There is likely to be some judgements relating to audio to be around as well.

terrycym · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 Apr 2012, 09:14 am »

As yousay, it depends on the country.
In the UK, if a manual states that a product can peform a particular task then that is enforcable under the Stades Description Act.

I'm not sure if North America has similar legislation?

Alpha10 · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 Apr 2012, 12:23 pm »

Quote from: terrycym on 25 Apr 2012, 09:14 am

As yousay, it depends on the country.
In the UK, if a manual states that a product can peform a particular task then that is enforcable under the Stades Description Act.

I'm not sure if North America has similar legislation?

I don't think they do have such legislation, afterall they have a 'World Series' and don't invite anyone else to play

Cheers