Help me find a DAC that beats my Ayon cd2 player

timind · « **Reply #20 on:** 24 Mar 2012, 05:49 pm »

I had a similar experience when I initially got into computer audio. I began ripping my cds to itunes on the Mac Mini and found the sound underwhelming. After a lot of experimentation I believe my computer files sound as good as cds played on my Resolution Audio cdp.
Here's my system:
Rip cds to itunes in AIFF via XLD (assuming you meant XLD above).
Feed the optical out from the mini to a Monarchy Audio Super DIP which feeds a PS Audio DLIII dac via coax.
I have listened to the Mac Mini via USB but found it lacking. Found the optical out straight in to the dac lacking as well.
How do I know what I'm hearing is identical to the original source? I use Roger Water - Amused To Death as a reference because that is the album that let me no for sure my computer audio was not right.

wilsynet · « **Reply #21 on:** 24 Mar 2012, 06:58 pm »

Quote from: fridays on 24 Mar 2012, 03:09 pm

The Ayon is mine and I like it a lot, it is much more musical, toe tapping, relaxed, organic etc

No one has ever described the EE DAC as relaxing and organic. Having owned more than a dozen DACs over the past few years, I'll say that the EE is detailed, clean and extended. For systems that err on the side of warmth, the EE may be just what the doctor ordered. Synergy and personal preferences are important.

If relaxed and organic is what you're looking for, I'd recommend the latest PS Audio DAC, and the Ayre QB-9. I'd also look into the JKENY DAC32 as a low cost, high value alternative which many consider warmer and fuller bodied compared to his ESS offering. I have no experience with the new Rega DAC, but what MoonUnit says has a lot of merit.

I hesitate to recommend a NOS DAC right now. They typically have organic and relaxed in spades, but I think a number of the more modern DAC implementations are doing nearly as well in this area without giving up transparency and accuracy. But for the money, if it's what you're prioritizing for, a number of NOS DACs may fit the bill. Hard for me to believe though that a $1000-$1500 NOS DAC like the Tranquility (or the UltraFi DAC-41) will be long term satisfying to someone willing to spend $6000 on a CDP and $1000 on mods for a Mac Mini. For that kind of money you can get resolved, relaxed, organic, and transparent all in the same box.

mfsoa · « **Reply #22 on:** 24 Mar 2012, 07:08 pm »

If you haven't diddled with the op-amps in the EE Dac, you have not heard what it is capable of.

wilsynet · « **Reply #23 on:** 24 Mar 2012, 07:16 pm »

Quote from: TJHUB on 24 Mar 2012, 01:02 pm

Sorry that I'm not contributing to this thread, but I'm curious as to the differences in the sound of the EE+ DAC vs. the Rega DAC (or Ayon CD2 if similar). Can someone explain how the sound differs? I have not been all that happy with my setup since adding the EE+. I also thought little of its USB input. I even tried a Audiophilleo 2 at one point. I'm wondering if I should be looking for something else too.

My PS Audio PerfectWave (not the MKII, still waiting for upgrade board) is not quite as detailed as the EE (with opamps rolled) through USB, but is more relaxed and analog sounding, and handily beats the EE in terms of soundstage and spatial reproduction. My feeling is that this comes right down to the quality of the output stage. But the EE's advantage I think is illusory as I'm currently using the PWD USB input, known to be inferior, and the MKII upgrade board should fix that.

Nevertheless, I think the EE is a terrific DAC. If I still owned it, I'd think hard about rolling in the discrete Burson opamps.

I've owned several USB to SPDIF converters, including the Audiophileo. In my opinion, if superior USB conversion is what's desired, the Empirical Off Ramp is the only one worth owning. I have not yet heard the new Berkeley Audio Alpha USB converter nor JKENY's offering. But the Audiophelio was disappointing -- a rough treble region that makes music sound like digital. I hear the in-development battery supply fixes this shortcoming.

rodge827 · « **Reply #24 on:** 24 Mar 2012, 07:24 pm »

If I had the $ the Abbington Music Research (AMR) DP777 at 5k would be a very welcome addition in my system.

Good luck

wilsynet · « **Reply #25 on:** 24 Mar 2012, 07:26 pm »

Quote from: mfsoa on 24 Mar 2012, 07:08 pm

If you haven't diddled with the op-amps in the EE Dac, you have not heard what it is capable of.

Totally agree. At the very least the OP needs to pull the tube from the EE DAC and run using the solid state outputs only. This by itself will I think improve dynamics and smooth out some of the presentation.

Hey Fridays, have you pulled the tube yet? This is worth doing.

Also, I would check out the Burson and Dexa opamps, but here are some other useful links for opamp rolling:

http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=864
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1327433514&openfrom&1&4#1

The comments from Sibelius are note worthy.

David C · « **Reply #26 on:** 24 Mar 2012, 08:02 pm »

Does pulling the tube on the "old version" of the EE DAC not the + version also improve the sound????

Bill O'Connell · « **Reply #27 on:** 24 Mar 2012, 08:15 pm »

Quote from: David C on 24 Mar 2012, 08:02 pm

Does pulling the tube on the "old version" of the EE DAC not the + version also improve the sound????

absolutely,yes it does.

Highly recommend the Dexa discrete, I haven't tried the Burson's but somewhere somebody said they don't fit under the top plate

audioseduction · « **Reply #28 on:** 24 Mar 2012, 10:34 pm »

I bet my Bel Canto DAC VB3.5 MKII will blow the doors off your cd player. It out shined my $10k Esoteric I owned.

fridays · « **Reply #29 on:** 24 Mar 2012, 10:55 pm »

Wilsynet
I have pulled the tube(Psvane) that I bought for the +
it did help

wilsynet · « **Reply #30 on:** 24 Mar 2012, 11:13 pm »

The Bel Canto would still need a USB to SPDIF converter. Too bad the Bel Canto USB Link is junk.

Fridays: Did you pull the tube before this thread or just starting today? Did it help a little or a lot? Rolling opamps is easy by the way.

fridays · « **Reply #31 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 12:42 am »

I pulled the tube before, it helped a lot, on most material

Gopher · « **Reply #32 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 01:25 am »

Quote from: fridays on 24 Mar 2012, 03:09 pm

I bought the EE based on a reviewers recommendation who had the Ayon CD5, he claimed the EE was much better, I know I should have listened for myself, but that seems very hard to do especially living in bf Iowa where things are limited

But isn't the CD2 higher in the Ayon line up than the CD5? At least that was the impression I got from pricing... though I could be mistaken.

Anyway, I've heard the CD2 a couple times, though not in my own system. I would wager money that my Lampizator level 3 AT LEAST equals it and that a level 4 would leave it behind.

I would also say that having owned a Bolder Modified EE DAC, things are enhanced many notches from stock. The signature will be different then the Ayon based on my memory, but I wouldn't be surprised if you found it more exciting/engaging.

Wig · « **Reply #33 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 02:04 am »

I previously owned the Ayon CD2, Original EE Dac and the Berkeley Alpha Dac. IMO, both of the dac mention was better than the CD2, I was using the EE with a 1958 Mullards with good results, deeper and wider soundstage and quite smooth but the Berkeley was much better in soundstaging, extracting subtle ques and more tube like which I was impressed with since it's a solid-state dac. The CD2 was very forward and bright on ocassion and I wouldn't say that my Avalon Ascendants are super detailed but very smooth from top to bottom.

Things may be better now with the new EE Dac with all of the op-amp rolling and hear that it's a different beast now but I'm so impressed with my MW 5400 and have no desire to move away from it because it so musical and a joy to listen to.

Wig

Gopher · « **Reply #34 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 02:08 am »

Quote from: Wig on 25 Mar 2012, 02:04 am

I previously owned the Ayon CD2, Original EE Dac and the Berkeley Alpha Dac. IMO, both of the dac mention was better than the CD2, I was using the EE with a 1958 Mullards with good results, deeper and wider soundstage and quite smooth but the Berkeley was much better in soundstaging, extracting subtle ques and more tube like which I was impressed with since it's a solid-state dac.

This information is HUGE and very accurate. My Minimax DAC was far, far better than stock with a 1950s Mullard Long Plate. A Siemens Silverplate was also quite nice. I did not like the Psvane everyone wet themselves over.

fridays · « **Reply #35 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 02:59 am »

Gopher
I'd love to hear the Lamp in my system,I doubt that can happen tho
Thanks

David C · « **Reply #36 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 09:10 pm »

Bill O'C
thanks for the tip on the older EE DAC about removing the tube. I gotta tell you the improvement is not slight. It takes the edge off the SS output and sounds so sweet. I am not an op amp rolling person as I have no skills or knowledge of the internals of electronic gear but for those of you with the EE mini max DAC PULL the tube.

saisunil · « **Reply #37 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 09:29 pm »

I think Eximus DP1 is an excellent sounding dac/headphone amp - it was better than even more expensive dac I had - which was excellent too ...
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/aprilmusic8/1.html
http://www.aprilmusic.com/eng/main/sub02_04_03.html

I am in NY and we could possibly arrange an audition or you could borrow it ...
I also believe that computer audio is in its infancy where as the silver platter is mature and losing market share fast ... so we either wait or do the best we can with this new and unknown beast of computer audio ... there is more unknown about it than known ... some people made some excellent suggestions already ...

DP1 is definitely the smoothest digital audio I have heard without losing detail and dynamics ... I have not heard a whole lot ...

wilsynet · « **Reply #38 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 09:32 pm »

Rolling the opamps is so ridiculously easy, no electronics experience is required. Buy a chip puller for $5 or less, find the clearly labelled chips, pull them using the tool and seat the new chips in place.

If you can unplug something and plug something in, then you can roll the opamps. If you have working hands, and even if you're a klutz, you can do this if you're willing to try.

audioseduction · « **Reply #39 on:** 26 Mar 2012, 03:25 pm »

Quote from: fridays on 25 Mar 2012, 12:42 am

I pulled the tube before, it helped a lot, on most material

That's why I use a "Wavelength WaveLink HS 24/192 USB to SPDIF Converter". Below is my signal path.

Dedicated Windows 7 64bit Intel Core I5 8GB RAM Laptop/JRiver Media Center 17 >> Wireworld Starlight Platinum USB cable >> WaveLink HS 24/192 USB to SPDIF Converter >> Nordost Silver Shadow BNC Digital Cable >> Bel Canto DAC3.5VB MKII >> TARA Labs ISM The One XLR Interconnects >> Pass Labs XP-20 Preamp >> TARA Labs ISM The One XLR Interconnects >> Pass Labs XA-160.5 Amp >> Tara Labs ISM The One Spk Cables >> Martin Logan Summit X speakers