[fridays]

I have a Mach2 mini with all the bells and wistles running off a battery buss,hd Wywires USB cable into an Eastern Electric + dac
I had a friend over and she said the cd player beats the computer hands down
Im pretty sure the dac is the weak link
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated...I really want the computer to stay
Thanks
Bruce

[Jon L]

You are comparing a $5500 one-box CD player (with the huge advantage of one less digital interface, USB in this case) to a $1100 DAC 

[fridays]

True that but all the computer gear was about 3300
Thanks tho

[MoonUnit]

The Ayon CD2 uses the PCM1704 converter, which has a pretty distinctive house sound that's almost the polar opposite of the ESS Sabre in your Eastern Electric. The closest reasonably priced DAC to your Ayon's sound is probably the Rega DAC (which doesn't use the PCM1704 but is pretty darn close sound-wise), but I'm assuming you have the money to go with one of the pricier PCM1704 DACs. I'm not really familiar with what the selection is these days for DACs using that chip. It was more popular a few years ago.

[shooter]

The Lampizator Level 4+ is a much better dac than the EE+, it will cost 5X the EE+. Although it has a grounding issue when tried in my system, but no problem in the dac owner's system.
We only use spdif input, don't know about USB.

[srb]

True that but all the computer gear was about 3300

OK, you are comparing a $5500 one-box CD player (with the huge advantage of one less digital interface, USB in this case) to a $3300 computer setup!

Seriously though, Jon L does make a point about the CD player, which uses I2S between transport and internal DAC and avoids any conversion.

The MiniMax Plus DAC uses a USB interface based on the M2Tech HiFace.  Although many are happy with that interface, not everyone is totally satisified, which has caused them to seek out even higher quality external USB/SPDIF interfaces such as those from Audiophilleo, Empirical Audio, Wavelength, etc.

It would be interesting to try an optical cable from the digital optical output of the Mini (although limited to 24/96) just to see if you might like the sound better from the EE DAC when fed a direct S/PDIF input.

Steve

[MoonUnit]

Why not just trade up to the Ayon Skylla II DAC, or look for a used Skylla?

[Jon L]

Why not just trade up to the Ayon Skylla II DAC, or look for a used Skylla?

Isn't Skylla II DAC like $6850?  When one's budget for DAC goes up to that range, there is going to be a LOT more choices than the EE DAC!
 

[wilsynet]

You spent your money in the wrong way, spending high dollars on tweaks rather than buying high quality components.

PS Audio PerfectWave MKII, $4K
2012 Apple Mac Mini, $700

I'll bet dollars to donuts that this beats the Mach modded Mini plus BatteryBuss, pixie dust USB cables, etc.

If you don't like the PerfectWave, pick a $3000 DAC of your choice and get an Empirical Audio Off-Ramp 5.

[coverto]

You spent your money in the wrong way, spending high dollars on tweaks rather than buying high quality components.

I must respectfully disagree. The Pi Audio BatteryBuss can hardly be dismissed as a "tweak," and the OP has done well to optimize his source with it. Keep the BBuss and Mini, and replace it with a TC Impact Twin studio interface, which has the same DAC chip as the $4K Metric Halo and can be had on eBay for $300-$400. It has no PS of its own, so couple it either with another BatteryBuss or with a $600 linear power supply from Core Audio Technology (which beats the on-board PS of the Metric Halo). You'll need about $19 worth of cables to do all of this, and I'll bet dollars to donuts the result will punch very respectably with that Ayon CD player, and make you very happy at the least. PM me if you're interested in any further details - no affiliation with the manufacturers, I'm just a man who has enjoyed a very good experience. 

[Rclark]

I have a Mach2 mini with all the bells and wistles running off a battery buss,hd Wywires USB cable into an Eastern Electric + dac
I had a friend over and she said the cd player beats the computer hands down

 

That had to be deflating after spending all that money. But more and more comments like that are making me feel really confident in my cdp. I realize you are talking about expensive players, but you are also talking about expensive computer playback gear, so relatively... it's all the same.

[wisnon]

try the nad m51.

[wilsynet]

I'm going to take a step back and ask what is it that the OP likes and dislikes about the computer setup versus the Ayon CDP.

The OP did not even claim to prefer one or the other, rather the friend expressed a preference.  I should hesitate to make a recommendation given that I don't know the desired outcome.

Having said that, hey, I like the EE DAC.  And I also long ago learned to appreciate the value of clean power.  But no amount of clean power will address the shortcomings of the opamps in the EE DAC versus a discrete output stage.  Neither will any amount of transport / Mac Mini tweaking.

As much as I like the EE DAC, I find it strange to tweak a Mac Mini, add terrific clean power and an audiophile USB cable and expect it to perform like a $6000 CDP.  That's like saying I can take a Ford Focus, add a turbo charger and replace the struts and sway bars, and somehow I'm going to end up with a Porsche.  In audiophile terms, I don't know how to turn a Rega P3 into a Rega P9 just by adding clean power and some nice interconnects.

As for CDPs versus computer based audio, I would guess that for the same money, one can build a better CDP than a computer based system.  Why?  Because the CDP is built to do only one thing really well and it can do it all in one box.  But the value of computer based audio is not that better sound can be had for less money, it's really the inarguable convenience of computer based audio playback.

[wilsynet]

Keep the BBuss and Mini, and replace it with a TC Impact Twin studio interface, which has the same DAC chip as the $4K Metric Halo and can be had on eBay for $300-$400.

You'll have to forgive my skepticism regarding the TC Impact Twin.  Which DACs have you compared it against?  Not necessarily direct head to head, but with which DACs do you think the TC Impact compares favorably?

[timind]

Let's take another step back and ask the OP how his digital files are ripped. What format do you use? Are you sure you are comparing bit perfect copies to the cd?
Seems like a question we should ask instead of assuming.

[TJHUB]

The Ayon CD2 uses the PCM1704 converter, which has a pretty distinctive house sound that's almost the polar opposite of the ESS Sabre in your Eastern Electric. The closest reasonably priced DAC to your Ayon's sound is probably the Rega DAC (which doesn't use the PCM1704 but is pretty darn close sound-wise), but I'm assuming you have the money to go with one of the pricier PCM1704 DACs. I'm not really familiar with what the selection is these days for DACs using that chip. It was more popular a few years ago.

Sorry that I'm not contributing to this thread, but I'm curious as to the differences in the sound of the EE+ DAC vs. the Rega DAC (or Ayon CD2 if similar).  Can someone explain how the sound differs?  I have not been all that happy with my setup since adding the EE+.  I also thought little of its USB input.  I even tried a Audiophilleo 2 at one point.  I'm wondering if I should be looking for something else too.

[toddbagwell]

My two cents:

1) your friend expressed her opinion. Great. Do you share the same opinion? If so, ignore the rest of this post. If you haven't heard her CD player in your system, see if you can arrange it. That is the best way to determine if you share her opinion or if you two will just have to agree to disagree.

2) If you compare things, be sure to level match each source, a decibel higher or lower can shift preferences without a true difference.

3) I would not replace anything without being sure that it is the weak link. this hobby can get expensive in a hurry, and it is easy to throw money at equipment that may not be the issue. I would recommend maximizing speakers and room treatment / position before swapping your source or DAC (of which I've read very good reviews). if you decide to move to a different DAC or source, be sure it is because it makes you happy and not because someone else feels differently about their system when compared to yours.

later,
todd

I have a Mach2 mini with all the bells and wistles running off a battery buss,hd Wywires USB cable into an Eastern Electric + dac
I had a friend over and she said the cd player beats the computer hands down
Im pretty sure the dac is the weak link
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated...I really want the computer to stay
Thanks
Bruce

[MoonUnit]

Sorry that I'm not contributing to this thread, but I'm curious as to the differences in the sound of the EE+ DAC vs. the Rega DAC (or Ayon CD2 if similar).  Can someone explain how the sound differs?  I have not been all that happy with my setup since adding the EE+.  I also thought little of its USB input.  I even tried a Audiophilleo 2 at one point.  I'm wondering if I should be looking for something else too.

DACs vary in sound as much as CD players do, and a lot of factors can affect the ultimate sound (filtering strategy, analog output stage, etc.), so take any generalizations with a grain of salt, but it's also fair to say that the core DAC chipsets themselves tend to have a certain type of sound. The ESS Sabre chipset in the EE DAC leans toward the sun-kissed side of the audio spectrum. The PCM1704 uses a different underlying technology and leans toward a darker sound. It also has an effortless quality when well done that is hard to put in words. Both are great at low-level detail retrieval though. The other popular DAC chipsets (AKM, TI/BB, Wolfson) tend to fall somewhere between these two extremes. There's also a branch of DACs using NOS technology which tend to have a darker and organic sound (thus similar to the PCM1704), but which often aren't detail monsters and sometimes have quite a different treble presentation than all of the above.

I just mentioned the Rega DAC because it's one of the cheaper DACs that's more comparable than not to PCM1704 designs like the Ayon. Other people have made this observation too, e.g.: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/audio-reviews/digital-source-reviews/item/288-rega-24/192-dac-2-x-wolfson-wm8742

If you're not happy with your current DAC, I would definitely suggest auditioning a few more. Your source makes a huge difference to your ultimate sound, and it's important to find one you like.

[coverto]

You'll have to forgive my skepticism regarding the TC Impact Twin.  Which DACs have you compared it against?  Not necessarily direct head to head, but with which DACs do you think the TC Impact compares favorably?

Wilysnet - your skepticism is entirely understandable and is forgiven. 

I've A/B'd the TC Impact Twin and Core Audio Technology PS against an Ultra Fi DAC-41, and it was no contest - despite the fact that the DAC-41 was getting help from some very fancy power cables and interconnects. I've got a friend who A/B'd it against a Metrum Octave. Again, no contest. He's going to A/B the combo against a Calyx and a Minimax DAC next week, which should be interesting, but you know what I'm predicting.

I emphasize that this is true only when the TCIT is paired with a superior linear power supply. Given the DAC chip and rather sophisticated design of its internal circuit, I don't think it should necessarily be all that surprising that, coupled with that kind of PS, it can outperform a lot of what's manufactured for the "audiophile community."

A key point here, really, is that clean power is crucial. Another friend of mine, come to think of it, had an EE DAC that he modified with a linear PS, from Bolder I believe, with outstanding results.

[fridays]

Thanks for all the ideas so far
I must admit I jumped into computer music before I did the research I should have,Deflating is an understatement
I am learning the hard way as I usually do, the cost is great
The Ayon is mine and I like it a lot, it is much more musical, toe tapping, relaxed, organic etc
I got into computer files because I was borrowing music from the library ripping it with xlr and then burning it to cd, I lot more work than just putting it on a hd in aiff format
I bought the EE based on a reviewers recommendation who had the Ayon CD5, he claimed the EE was much better, I know I should have listened for myself, but that seems very hard to do especially living in bf Iowa where things are limited
Thanks all
I will more research before I spend anymore money

Bruce