which is better? power amp + speaker vs active speaker

goohsm · « **on:** 21 Mar 2012, 04:55 am »

i have benchmark dac1
currently using er4s via headphone out of dac1
but im trying to get a speaker system
my budge: a few thousand dollars for used gears
im thinking mc275 + a pair of b&w bookshelf speakers
or
a pair of active system of around 2/3 cost of the above combination
maybe a pair of focal twin6 be ?

which would sound better?

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Mar 2012, 06:54 am »

Probably the Focal Twin6, but much better still would be a pair of Neumann KH120s at $1600 the pair. You would find the Neumanns at the same sort of place you'd find the Focals - big musicians' supply stores.

JLM · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Mar 2012, 09:39 am »

To answer the subject directly: ACTIVE

The advantages of truly active designs (one amp connected directly to each driver) are significant and many. Primary are improved dynamics, ruler flat frequency response, and incredibly deep bass. The biggest disadvantages are: nearly impossible to find a tubed active speaker and it takes away the audiophile "fun" of hunting for the perfect synergistic amp/speaker match.

Of course by definition single driver designs are active. Helper tweeters "ruin" it

, but powered subwoofers are OK. And watch out for powered speakers that use one amp for multiple speakers (placing the crossover between amp and drivers). That's just a passive speaker with a matched power amp attached.

JohnR · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Mar 2012, 09:41 am »

I'm just wondering - is this thread posted in the right circle? Perhaps Enclosures would be a better bet...

goohsm · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Mar 2012, 02:21 am »

Quote from: JohnR on 21 Mar 2012, 09:41 am

I'm just wondering - is this thread posted in the right circle? Perhaps Enclosures would be a better bet...

sorry i just registered on audiocircle so this forum was one of very few categories i was able to post a thread
hopefully someone will take this into the right circle

JohnR · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Mar 2012, 02:24 am »

No worries, done

goohsm · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Mar 2012, 03:12 am »

Quote from: JLM on 21 Mar 2012, 09:39 am

To answer the subject directly: ACTIVE

The advantages of truly active designs (one amp connected directly to each driver) are significant and many. Primary are improved dynamics, ruler flat frequency response, and incredibly deep bass. The biggest disadvantages are: nearly impossible to find a tubed active speaker and it takes away the audiophile "fun" of hunting for the perfect synergistic amp/speaker match.

Of course by definition single driver designs are active. Helper tweeters "ruin" it , but powered subwoofers are OK. And watch out for powered speakers that use one amp for multiple speakers (placing the crossover between amp and drivers). That's just a passive speaker with a matched power amp attached.

have you personally compared poweramp+passive vs active ?
i know that active speakers are more efficient circuit systems
but iv read that its expensive because its a new technology
so i heard some people saying like, for the same money you can spend, poweramp+passive combination sounds better than active speakers
do you think they are wrong?

Tyson · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Mar 2012, 03:13 am »

If done well, active sounds better. If done poorly, it does not.

chrisby · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Mar 2012, 06:54 pm »

Quote from: goohsm on 22 Mar 2012, 03:12 am

have you personally compared poweramp+passive vs active ?
i know that active speakers are more efficient circuit systems
but iv read that its expensive because its a new technology
so i heard some people saying like, for the same money you can spend, poweramp+passive combination sounds better than active speakers
do you think they are wrong?

Like a lot of categories "Active" can mean different things - but even in the strict terms of actively powered speakers (all filters and amps built into the enclosure) it is not a new technology. Hell, the little speaker system connected to your computer is an active system - so you can see that it doesn't necessarily cost a lot, nor guarantee particularly stellar performance.

As JLM noted before this thread was relocated, by a looser definition, any Full Range / single driver system without passive EQ/ Baffle step, etc filtering between amp and speaker terminals constitutes an active system.

Over the years I've heard a variety of fully active multi-way systems, such early Linn PMS Isobarics ( 3-way with Naim XO and 6 pack of mono amps) to Paradigm and Meridians, and since these particular models were targeted to an more affluent demographic, yes they cost more than I'd personally care to spend. Did they blow the more conventional amp + passive systems out of the water? - well the big Linn systems maybe, but the others, not necessarily.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Mar 2012, 07:10 pm »

Another point - when well done, an active system should be cheaper than passive for a given level of performance. Presuming we are talking about amplifiers built into the speakers, the amplifier case and speaker wires are eliminated, at least as expensive separate components. In an amplifier the case and knobs cost as much as all the rest of the components.

chrisby · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Mar 2012, 08:24 pm »

Quote from: Russell Dawkins on 22 Mar 2012, 07:10 pm

Another point - when well done, an active system should be cheaper than passive for a given level of performance. Presuming we are talking about amplifiers built into the speakers, the amplifier case and speaker wires are eliminated, at least as expensive separate components. In an amplifier the case and knobs cost as much as all the rest of the components.

and not to mention that the audio nervosa bling bling interconnects and speaker cabling can cost more than a vintage "E" type Jag / reconditioned Norton Commando - pick your favorite toy

JLM · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 12:21 am »

Not that we must or should match what the professionals do, but they almost universally use active designs in the recording studio. Their primary concern is results (fidelity).

Years ago did A/B audition between Paradigm Studio 20 ($800/pair smaller 2-way standmounts) versus Paradigm Active 20 ($1600/pair, biamped version of the Studio 20). No comparison; dynamics, flat response, unbelievable bass. They sounded better all the way around than the Paradigm Studio 80 ($1600/pair floorstanders).

In active designs each amp directly "sees" the simplier driver load versus squeezing through the inefficient electronic maze called a crossover. Those built by the pros for the pros are normally, properly matched/sorted out. Note that bi-amped passive speakers are not the same as active designs.

ghostlinker · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Mar 2012, 10:46 pm »

ADAM A7X

http://www.adam-audio.com/en/pro-audio/products/a7x/description

are amazing.

roymail · « **Reply #13 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 12:57 pm »

Has anyone heard the QSC K10s or 12s?

Old timer · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 01:37 pm »

I suppose some guys are quite pleased, listening to a little motor control amplifier or chipset amp driving their speakers.

Not me.

Want good sound? Purchase seperates.

macrojack · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 03:08 pm »

Old timer - Your comment is staggeringly naive. Would you really contend that separates, any separates, will in all cases be superior to self-powered speakers?

That sort of generalization contributes nothing at all to the discussion.

That said, I find the OP unclear on what he wants to know. My assumption at the outset was that he wants opinions about internally powered speakers vis a vis externally powered speakers. Some of the responses indicate that others interpreted his question differently.

As with all things, the answer lies in execution. And I believe that the active (internally powered) speaker will always have the edge, as demonstrated by JLM's Paradigm parable.
However, apples to oranges speculation advances nothing but the word count.

rollo · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 03:44 pm »

Quote from: goohsm on 21 Mar 2012, 04:55 am

i have benchmark dac1
currently using er4s via headphone out of dac1
but im trying to get a speaker system
my budge: a few thousand dollars for used gears
im thinking mc275 + a pair of b&w bookshelf speakers
or
a pair of active system of around 2/3 cost of the above combination
maybe a pair of focal twin6 be ?

which would sound better?

Better ? No different , yes. Only you can determine "better". J. Personal taste being the main focus. Then room, ancillary gear and so on. Just too many factors involved. You must try yourself. Opinions are just that. There are several speakers available that are self powered today. Just give them a listen.

charles

pardales · « **Reply #17 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 03:48 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 31 Mar 2012, 03:44 pm

Better ? No different , yes. Only you can determine "better". J. Personal taste being the main focus. Then room, ancillary gear and so on. Just too many factors involved. You must try yourself. Opinions are just that. There are several speakers available that are self powered today. Just give them a listen.

charles

You do have to try. FWIW: I am between systems right now and am using a pair of Audioengine A5 speakers ($199). These are the first pair of powered speakers I have ever owned and I am really impressed with what they can do. It makes me curious about other powered speakers and and when it is time for me to set up a new rig, I will be looking at what is out there in the powered speaker realm.

macrojack · « **Reply #18 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 04:35 pm »

These powered speakers are pretty wonderful - I've had two pairs of them for many years now. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002KCNW38/ref=sc_pgp__m_A2763VQ7SN6URD_2?ie=UTF8&m=A2763VQ7SN6URD&n=&s=&v=glance

JBLMVBC · « **Reply #19 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 05:57 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 25 Mar 2012, 12:21 am

Not that we must or should match what the professionals do, but they almost universally use active designs in the recording studio. Their primary concern is results (fidelity).

Years ago did A/B audition between Paradigm Studio 20 ($800/pair smaller 2-way standmounts) versus Paradigm Active 20 ($1600/pair, biamped version of the Studio 20). No comparison; dynamics, flat response, unbelievable bass. They sounded better all the way around than the Paradigm Studio 80 ($1600/pair floorstanders).

In active designs each amp directly "sees" the simplier driver load versus squeezing through the inefficient electronic maze called a crossover. Those built by the pros for the pros are normally, properly matched/sorted out. Note that bi-amped passive speakers are not the same as active designs.

I am with you on that one. A much more versatile approach also...