The FET Valve preamp thread

Mr Peabody · « **on:** 17 Mar 2012, 07:11 pm »

When I first put my 400r into the system in place of my Conrad Johnson tube amps it was not hard to decide to keep it. The CJ amps are great but the 400r brought more benefits to the table. So I decided to try the preamp to see what synergy I get, so far the results have not been conclusive, here's where I'm at and please chime in if you own a FET pre or have experience with one, I'd be interested to know if my experience with this pre is typical.

My current preamp is Conrad Johnson CT-6 which retailed for about $5k, I'm also using Revel Performa F52's for speakers. Out of the box I disliked the FET pre, not terrible just not to my liking. Frank asked me to keep it a few weeks before deciding to send it back. I knew I wouldn't be able to put a great deal of hours on it in the time I had so I hooked it up to a tuner and let it play for over 24 hours. Once back in my main system the break in time was pretty dramatic. The overall sound was more balanced, the tone was more pleasing, the bass changed as well but it's not easy to explain, it's like more detailed and less heavy handed. I still remain undecided on keeping the pre, here's my hang ups, the sound stage is small or distant, like looking through the wrong end of a telescope and although the FET pre provides a lot of detail from the recording it sounds more like a recording compared to my CJ preamp, the FET pre at this point lacks that certain something that lifts the recording off the paper so to speak. Maybe a better way to say it is the CJ has more presence or 3D character. Vocals are so clear with the FET they just aren't coming to life. I still need to do some comparison to make up my mind, the FET does offer a more nimble and controlled presentation. The CJ bass seems thicker in the midbass while the FET gives more energy in the extreme lower frequencies and better control. So the two preamps are more which is your preference than which is better. I just am not sure the improvements of the FET are enough to make me content with the FET soundstage. It's interesting not long ago some one sent me an article written about how audiophiles put emphasis on soundstage, but for me it's not where are the cellos located but more the feel I get from the presentation, is it helping convince me I am at a performance or the artist in the room. I think this is what made me switch to tubes from the likes of Krell. I do have to say out of all the gear I've listened to the FET pre has the smallest soundstage I've experienced. This is odd coming from large tower speakers

I do like the simplicity of the FET pre. The remote is too complicated though,, LOL, in case some one is reading this as a potential buyer the FET pre remote as all of two buttons, really a button and a rocker for volume.

Lefty052347 · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Mar 2012, 07:32 pm »

Could the pre-amp be set to mono?

Regards,
Dean

Wayner · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Mar 2012, 08:27 pm »

I received my FET Valve preamp on Monday of this week. There really isn't any break-in required as it has a great soundstage right out of the box (see my thread I started on Tuesday).

The first LP I played was by Dead Can Dance, Spiritchaser on MOFI and the first thing I noticed was a huge soundstage, so perhaps there is something going on.

Occasionally, I have noticed that new electronics (because of the speed of these new components) requires a repositioning of the speakers. I have had this happen with a couple of upgrades. Sounds silly, but sometimes, it was changing the toe-in angle by ever so small amounts, or moving the speakers a couple of inches farther apart may have huge influences on the soundstage.

Wayner

Mr Peabody · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Mar 2012, 01:34 am »

If I couldn't tell mono from stereo I don't have any business with this type of gear any way.

Wayner that's interesting that a piece of equipment, especially one containing tubes would require no break in. If yours has a large sound stage then there could be something wrong with my unit. The sound of mine did change after time for whatever reason. It's not just the soundstage being small but the sound is small or distant, like for instance a drum kit instead of sounding the size of one in your room sounds like a miniature version. It's hard to put into words, it plays on a small scale. CJ is pretty well known for giving a sound that makes the listener seem a few rows back from front row, the FET pre almost puts me in the back row.

Just so people will know where I'm coming from I have been in the audio hobby since a child, worked in the business for a while, I've heard a lot of gear including Levinson, Krell, Boulder, Jeff Rowland, Mac, ARC, Naim, Arcam, Classe, Sim Audio, and so on. So I think I have a grasp on being able to evaluate a component.

The purpose of my thread was to hopefully gain some info or insight, I certainly do not want to tarnish the FET pre's rep before it gets one. Maybe I will send it back and have Frank check it out. I have an audio friend coming over this week I want him to hear it before I do that though. I also want to swap cables to see if the AVA may be sensitive to that.

If any one is using both FET pre and power do you get a sense of sitting several rows back opposed to front row?

Wayner · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Mar 2012, 11:56 am »

There probably is a little tube conditioning going on, but the overall sound is not going to change much, percentage wise.

I run mine on with the low gain button out (so it's on full output, to my Ultravalve. This preamp completes my all tube system.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "front row seating". To many, including myself, that may mean "in your face", and this preamp is not that at all.

I've heard this preamp in Frank's main system (600R, FET Valve DAC and Salk HT3s) and it will blow you away. The Absolute Sound thought that the FET Valve preamp with the Ultravalve and Jim Salk's Songtowers was one of the best sounding (for the money) set-ups at RMAF.

Wayner

trebejo · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Mar 2012, 08:47 pm »

Well, I'm listening to James Taylor's "Steamroller" at the moment and there's a guitar solo that is definitely a front-row presentation through my AVAstar.

Now there is the very simple explanation that you just like your other preamp better. It's a big world.

An unusual symptom, however, is worth examining. Do you hear the same differences when you listen through your headphones?

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Mar 2012, 11:43 pm »

Well the CJ is a $5k preamp and an all tube design. There may be synergy issues with his T & A CD player.

Mr Peabody · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 06:11 am »

Hey, that's "T" "plus" "A", spelled T+A.

I think the AVA people do themselves a disservice by being in denial about break in. Unless they really can't hear the difference, which is scary. It's probably more obvious though when you let it play a span of time and then try it again opposed to listening straight through and having it happen gradual.

I let the FET pre play over night again and it did help some but not nearly as dramatic as that first period. Although some things seem a bit thinner in comparison to the CJ the sound stage of the FET blooms more than it did. It is very difficult now to compare the two preamps, they just have different presentations. Like on the CJ strings sound more lush but on the FET presents them as I can only describe now as more focused, on drums the FET is more detailed and cohesive more like a drum kit should sound, where the CJ has a bit more weight and body to the strikes, especially in tom toms, on vocals the FET is clear intelligible yet a bit more distant where the CJ carries more warmth and presence. I'm just going to have to do more listening and ask myself which is more engaging.

Wayner · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 12:01 pm »

Break in is just the initial process of break down. I bought a new pair of shoes, they broke in, but then, they didn't stop breaking in and now they have holes in them, they broke down.

You have selected a period of time during the break down process, as a significant musical event, but the tubes will pay you no mind and continue to break down. A process you can't stop. Since tubes are unpredictable, and their life span is on a "bell curve" according to the break in theorists, how do you know that each tube is reaching its "peak" performance at the same time. Some tubes my be at their end of duty cycle at an early age. What's worse is to only replace some of the tubes (when the time comes), and now you have a mix of tubes breaking in and others almost totally broken down.

Wayner

Mr Peabody · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 01:52 pm »

LOL, then let's say the FET pre sounds a bit better after some hours of break down. IMO, of course.

srb · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 02:11 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 19 Mar 2012, 12:01 pm

Since tubes are unpredictable, and their life span is on a "bell curve" according to the break in theorists, how do you know that each tube is reaching its "peak" performance at the same time. Some tubes my be at their end of duty cycle at an early age. What's worse is to only replace some of the tubes (when the time comes), and now you have a mix of tubes breaking in and others almost totally broken down.

Although somewhat a surprise to read in this particular topic, an overall excellent argument for solid state.

Steve

Mr Peabody · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 02:15 pm »

What's that they say, " it's better to have tubed and retubed than to never have tubed before".

avahifi · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 02:22 pm »

Mr. Peabody, kindly tell me a bit more about the DAC you use. I am kinda wondering if maybe that might be part of your issue.

Thanks,

Frank

Mr Peabody · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 02:41 pm »

I have a high quality CD player the T+A CD Player it's same as this without all the streaming features
http://www.taelektroakustik.de/index.php?id=45&artikelId=462&sorting=21632&P=2&webgruppe=12&L=0

Also, how could it be the player when all that changes is the preamp?

Wayner · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 03:32 pm »

Quote from: Mr Peabody on 19 Mar 2012, 02:15 pm

What's that they say, " it's better to have tubed and retubed than to never have tubed before".

Agreed.

I also think there is an element of the brain/ears connection getting used to a new piece in the chain. Perhaps the single factor is that the new sound is "different", but not necessarily better or worse.

Wayner

avahifi · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 06:29 pm »

I see that the DAC you are using has all the bells and whistles, but appears to have a solid state and possibly IC analog filter and analog output sections. Certainly not vacuum tube or hybrid.

I suspect there are two things that are getting in your way of realizing the full potential of your Fet Valve amplifier.

1. A solid state DAC.

2. A vacuum tube preamp that does not have current buffered outputs and does not have separate regulated power supplies for each plate of each tube used.

I suspect that substituting the AVA Fet Valve preamp for your CJ preamp is simply letting you hear more of what the DAC is not doing perfectly. Sounds kinda strange, but maybe true.

Or, and obviously maybe true too, and that is that you like the CJ preamp better. That would certainly not be the end of the world for us. I just think that your solid state DAC may be the problem.

Would you like to try a Fet Valve DAC? No obligation to buy and we will pay shipping both ways if you return it. We will extend the satisfaction return time on your AVA Fet Valve preamp until you have had time to evaluate the Fet Valve DAC with it there. We would ask for you to pay for the DAC up front, but with a 100% return refund guaranteed.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Mr Peabody · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 06:40 pm »

I got a quick comparison in this morning using SRV's Couldn't Stand The Weather which I don't consider a great production but the music is fabulous. I had to give a split decision to the FET pre, the FET pre has a flow to the music, the sound just blends more like the guys are playing together, less disjointed if you will. And that's not to say you would notice "any disjoint" in the CJ just in comparison. The FET seems more lively, in a good way. The FET is so nimble yet does it while maintaining musicality and not sounding too fast or aggressive.

Mr Peabody · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 06:48 pm »

Frank, I have to admit after hearing FET gear I wondered about the DAC but that would be stretching the budget especially if I keep the preamp. Once I sold my CJ I'd be square. Many good CD players and DAC's are solid state. I want to use my turntable shortly to see how it sounds. I've got A Rega P3/Dynavector cart and AcousTech phono stage. I was pretty tempted to add your phono stage and free up a shelf. I know your gear is good but I also hesitated as the one I use retailed around $1695.00.

What do you use for transport? Have you noticed any difference in sound due to different transports?

avahifi · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 07:55 pm »

I use several different CD players as transports. My main one is a 25 year old HK CD player with coax digital out. I also use my OPPO bluray player and hi rez music from my Macbook pro.

With the Mac I can use either optical or USB out and the same music sounds just the same no matter which digital source is choose.

Frank

Mr Peabody · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Mar 2012, 05:59 pm »

The turntable sounded real good. I played the last album I listened to using the CJ, a Jimmy Cliff live I picked up recently at a Record Show, through the FET it was apparent the sound is better, the audience was more distinct and intelligible as well the music being more detailed. I then played a Billy Cobham I like to use for a reference, it's a busy song and has a drum solo at the end, the solo sounded good, the tom toms were full but tight. Playing some CD's this morning also reminded me how recording dependent the FET gear is. I went back to Pink Floyd DSOTM in early listening the CJ was better but now the FET is on it's game, in the beginning, as an example, the song money when the coins hit the tray the FET didn't really render that well but now the coins are distinct and sound like real coins being dropped, on Us & Them when the chorus kicks in I have noticed that song is a challenge for many a system especially with some volume, the FET combo handled it very well remaining clear and concise. I played a recent band called Dead Weather which has good low end and other testing material, I was impressed by the FET the bass was taut and had authority, there was a guitar distortion the FET controlled so well you could almost feel it go through you. One other recording I found interesting, I had this Country song stuck in my head, so I pulled it for a listen thinking, "this is really going to sound bad" but to my surprise it was pretty good, the acoustic guitar sounding natural tones, the recording wasn't great but it sounded very good within the confines of it's production.

I know this is some what a change in things from me but the FET pre really seemed to settle in after crossing the 50 to 60 hour mark. One other thing that may have helped as well, the preamp has been in my system for a couple days without moving or being unplugged.