[sleepkyng]

can someone give me a rundown of how horns are different,  why people like them, why people dont?

thanks

[JohnR]

You first need to distinguish between front-loaded and back-loaded horns. Back-loaded horms are used to increase output in the bass area. Front-loaded horns increase output from a frequency determined by their size up to uh... some other frequency.

Front-loaded are the "real" horns, and typically are used as part of a very high efficency system. 100dB/W/m and up is common. This allows the use of low-power amplifiers and/or a lot of dynamic output, which is what (IMHO) really distinguishes real sound from what most loudspeakers are capable of.

Front-loaded horns will also (I believe) have less room interaction because of their directive nature.

Horns tend to be a love it or hate it kind of thing.

[JohnR]

This is a back-loaded horn (from http://www.carfrae.com):


http://www.carfrae.com/Images/little-big-horn.jpg">

[JohnR]

This is a front-loaded horn (from http://www.diy-systems.com/):


http://www.diy-systems.com/media/ref.jpg">

[sleepkyng]

holy crap!

those are cool!

would either of those be appropriate for a small dorm room?

i have a powerwave and i really like it and i've been hearing great things about horns and powerwaves and magical charms etc etc.

[gonefishin]

What horns are you looking at?  


   If your at all interested in horn speakers, I would advise that you try to listen to as many different design as you can.  Just to see if you like them or not.  The upcoming (Oct 8,9,10) Rocky Mountain Audio Fest.  I'm not entirely sure who'll have their speakers at the show...but it should end up being pretty darn good.

    Horns can certainly do some things very well.  Such as dynamic range, micro/macro dynamics, ability to play well at both low and high volumes while maintaining good control over the music at all levels.  They can really sound quite good!

    Some areas where horns can have some trouble are with tonal accuracy, beaming and listener fatigue (to name a few).  Horns can actually sound quite bad.

    There are certainly horn combo's out there that I haven't heard...but my favorite horn/driver combo is for a EdgarHorn "saladBowl" with JBL drivers (1" or 2").  To me, this horn combo has good tonal accuracy while maintaining the other aspects that I like about horns.  I've also heard the same JBL drivers with other horns...to my tastes...they weren't as good.
   Another driver combo I like are the classic altec compression drivers.  Even tho I've heard the Altec drivers also on EdgarHorns, I preferred the Altecs on (slightly modified) Altec horns.  To me the Altecs will always sound just like Altecs    They got that BIG Altec sound...gotta love it
    I've heard a few other compression drivers/horn combo's...but the  two above are my favorites.  If you get a chance to audition some horn speakers...don't rule them out entirely just from one or two auditions.
   Also note where the speakers are crossed over at and to what.  The better horn systems I've heard are full blown horn systems.  While you can make some compromises (as I did), you still need to be careful with speaker selection for the midbass woofer.  Most times sticking with a higher efficiency lower distortion midbass woofer can get you decent results in a sealed or vented cabinet.

   Some other horn "type" systems I've had a chance to listen to are the front loaded cone type horns.  Like AdvantGarde duos and Oris Horns.  Both are quite nice in their own way.  The Duos I heard were some of the older versions...and I've heard they've cleaned up some wrinkles in their woofer...but when I heard them the bass was having some troubles matching up with the horns.  But the horns really have a neat sound to them...the presentation was/is unreal.  I could only imagine of you would hook up a nice 845SET amp to these things you would be transported off in some dimension yet unknown  

  Last (finally, huh )  My favorite Lowther/Fostex type rear loaded speaker would be the new version Lowther pm2a's in Medallion enclosures.  I've heard some other versions of rear loaded speakers that I thought ranged from very nice to pretty poor.

   Again, it's best if you can get out and judge for yourself.  While I do like several different horn type speakers.  If I could only recommend you only listen to one horn speaker, I would recommend that you listen to the EdgarHorn TiTan system.  Not because I think it's the best...or because I think there aren't any better speakers out there...don't be concerned with what I think of them.  But I say this because I know that speaker fairly well...and it has several of the qualities that make up a good sounding horn system.


   take care!

[sleepkyng]

gone fishin

thanks for all the info!  

i dunno, i just thought if i ever upgrade now, i'll be lookin for speakers

i have a good source (nec cdr/ muse 2 dac, project 6.1), good preamp (melos sha 1), good amp, i guess (griffin powerwave) and my speakers leave much to be desired: wharfedale diamond 7.2's

they're ok, but id like something a little more alive.

[JohnR]

would either of those be appropriate for a small dorm room?

Not if you're planning to put anything else in there... like a bed or a desk

[sleepkyng]

so stick with bookshelves?

[nathanm]

With a pair of those Carfrae horns in a dorm room you'd have the world's largest headphones!  Not to mention they come with a convenient sleeping tube built right in!

Although you might not be alone, as this fella doesn't seem to be intimidated by size:



Yikes!  Sorry, can't remember where I got this photo from, but I got it.

[Smeggy]

That is one but-fugly set of speakers.  

[JLM]

IMO horns would not be well suited for dorms:

1.) Horns get very big to play deep.  I'm not aware of any commercial offerings that go below 50 Hz  and they're already the size of refrigerators.

2.) Horns are efficient, way more than you need in a dorm room.  Unless you're looking for something small and (for horns) relatively inefficient like The Horns (see Audio Circle Forum below) you'll just have more sound than you need.

3.) Horns typically have a very prominent (forward) midrange that does not play well in small rooms or rooms with hard walls.

4.) Horns are usually difficult to DIY and therefore expensive to buy.

BTW, with high efficiency comes noise issues.  Ground loops, transformers, utility power source, CD/turntable motors, everything in the chain had better be dead quiet or you'll hear it.

Most audiophile horns beg for the use of single (extended range) drivers.  This is an odd corner of the audio universe that I enjoy which has it's own risks and rewards.  You gain efficiency, coherency, bass distortion, treble beaming, and "easier" amp loading; but give up "full" frequency extension, phasing errors, doppler effect related issues, and delicate tweeters.  Extended range drivers tend have high cost, but eliminate the need for crossovers.

Due to their efficiency horns work best with low powered tube amps (under 10 watts per channel) where you're typically listening 0.001 watts per channel on average.  SETs are favorites.  Decware and Transcendent Audio are two affordable brands of low powered tube amps that wouldn't cost $100s to retube.  Again, tubes and dorm rooms aren't a great match with all the fooling around that college kids do.

A simple, but efficient and inexpensive speaker to build is Pi Speakers.  The 2 Pi kit cost about $200, can be built as standmounts or floorstanding, is 97 dB/w/m efficient, has no real crossover, and the tower version (if you want more bass and have the space) can be built from laminated MDF shelving.  Wayne Parham (owner/operator) is a swell guy.  The 2 Pi sounds much better than it has a right to.  Wayne sells bigger Pi speakers, many of which he calls horns, but they're more like bass reflex with a single "horn" fold.

If you're into DIY, visit madisound.com and look up the Fostex drivers in their catalog.  They have plans for rather compact speakers, many are horns.  The plans look too simple, but have been highly refined.  Fostex are among the most affordable extended range drivers.

Check out the high efficiency speaker forum at audio asylum or the forum at the single driver website.

[RussKon]

as pointed out above... a full horn system is large....

but a speaker with a horn tweeter/midrange is very accessible in a bookshelf model....

klipsch offers the RB-35... a bookshelf speaker form the klipsch reference line...very good sounding with many advantages of a horn and the small size of a bookshelf....

http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=629



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