Internal wire

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JohnR

Re: Caution to those who may visit Hugh!
« Reply #20 on: 12 Feb 2003, 12:19 am »
Quote from: fred

Not being fluent in Australianese, I had to look up "chuffed," in the dictionary.


Ah, but fred, you have looked in an English dictionary, you must use a Strine dictionary! For example:

http://www.artistwd.com/joyzine/australia/strine/

:D

U4EA

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Internal wire
« Reply #21 on: 12 Feb 2003, 12:38 am »
EchiDNA,

I remember one time dealing with a customer who said his spec required 99.9999  (4 nines) pure copper.  It quoted out at like $4 US a foot in 1985.  I can't believe auto wire would be that pure.   But I am in the USA not OZ.

I am not arguing for or against it in terms of sound.  Because i have not heard the stuff.  I would just like to read that auto wire package and call that company to get the story.  I am not doubting Hugh.  I know he can read.

As far as instant and unavoidable contamination lowering that spec, I would agree with you.

Larry

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Internal wire
« Reply #22 on: 12 Feb 2003, 02:41 am »
Quote from: U4EA
EchiDNA,

I remember one time dealing with a customer who said his spec required 99.9999  (4 nines) pure copper.  It quoted out at like $4 US a foot in 1985.  I can't believe auto wire would be that pure.   But I am in the USA not OZ.

I am not arguing for or against it in terms of sound.  Because i have not heard the stuff.  I would just like to read that auto wire package and call that company to get the story.  I am not doubting Hugh.  I know he can read.

As far as instant and unavoidable contamination lowering that spec, I would agree with you.


99.9999% is a common spec in auto wire, if you ask auto electrician. Why? You don't want your wire around your car running as hot as the engine, do you? (High DC current demonds much more from the conductor to run cool than AC does. )

If you think it's too cheap to put such stuff along with your precious gears, then you do a Google research with "OFC cable 99.9999" and see how much they sell it to you in an HiFi shop. (Your heart much be strong enough to entertain yourself by reading those specs like "96% speed of light". I heard you say, "yes, its music travels much faster so that charging you 100 times more ...)

Oh, well, those chuffed Aussies may be considered as chuffs living around billabongs ...

AKSA

Internal wire
« Reply #23 on: 12 Feb 2003, 02:56 am »
I guess I have to agree with the 'instant and inevitable contamination' angle here.  It does seem absurdly high.  Perhaps it is refined in deep space???    :nono:

It would seem I have fallen victim to marketing hype.  Hmmmmmmmm......  Very sorry, happens all the time!    :mrgreen:

Will you settle for two nines??  That seem OK?   :hyper:

Cheers,

Hugh

U4EA

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Internal wire
« Reply #24 on: 12 Feb 2003, 03:13 am »
I just got back from my local auto store.  I checked the wire.  They do not even list a 99.9 spec....I need to move to OZ...where the wire is pure. :)

Funny how things differ between countries.

Brad

Internal wire
« Reply #25 on: 12 Feb 2003, 03:19 am »
Maybe they can work the purity of the auto wire into a Foster's commercial..... :idea:

Larry

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Internal wire
« Reply #26 on: 12 Feb 2003, 03:40 am »
Quote from: AKSA
I guess I have to agree with the 'instant and inevitable contamination' angle here.  It does seem absurdly high.  Perhaps it is refined in deep space???    :nono:

It would seem I have fallen victim to marketing hype.  Hmmmmmmmm......  Very sorry, happens all the time!    :mrgreen:

Will you settle for two nines??  That seem OK?   :hyper:

Cheers,

Hugh


No, No, ... 99.9999% is common spec, not high, in the sense of finding such spec'ed wire. Anyway, it is always right that the purer, the better.

The thing is how different they are treated in auto shops and audio shops. I just don't understand how the purity was related to the speed of light and the speed of light to the sonics.

Larry

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Internal wire
« Reply #27 on: 12 Feb 2003, 03:43 am »
Quote from: U4EA
I just got back from my local auto store.  I checked the wire.  They do not even list a 99.9 spec....I need to move to OZ...where the wire is pure. :)

Funny how things differ between countries.


Not listed doesn't mean not being. They (auto cable guys) know that is not the selling point in car cable industry and get people to buy. But that is what required.  (in the other hand, in audio industry, what is listed may not be what is required.)

A lot things are the same between countries. In fact, those wires in Oz are likely from US or UK, seldom made locally.

Carlman

Internal wire
« Reply #28 on: 12 Feb 2003, 04:02 am »

Larry

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Internal wire
« Reply #29 on: 12 Feb 2003, 12:17 pm »
Quote from: Carlman
Is this the stuff?
http://jacksretail.com/autoprimarywire.shtml


This is how they are incarnated in an audio shop - cut into pieces, soldered with plugs and tagged with an audiophile price.  :roll:

http://www.graniteaudio.com/cable/page6.html

"All our cables are sequentially cut from the master spool and serial numbered to keep them in order.  Sequential serial numbered cables are not only continuous crystal, . . . . they are the same continuous crystal."

"Not only continuous crystal, . . . . they are the same continuous crystal" Woooooh, it would take my life time to understand this audio theory.

Cheers  :mrgreen:

SamL

Internal wire
« Reply #30 on: 12 Feb 2003, 01:06 pm »
$500/meter.... I though you said it is $10/m?

Let take this off line. Email me.

Sam

SamL

Internal wire
« Reply #31 on: 12 Feb 2003, 01:09 pm »
My apology to everyone.  Replay to wrong post. Its 2am in NZ. :o

Anyway Larry, pls email me.

Sam

Larry

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Internal wire
« Reply #32 on: 12 Feb 2003, 01:12 pm »
Quote from: SamL
$500/meter.... I though you said it is $10/m?

Let take this off line. Email me.

Sam


Don't be panic! Hugh once said this is an infotainment forum.  :mrgreen:

bart11073

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Internal wire
« Reply #33 on: 13 Feb 2003, 04:20 pm »
Just a short question. Where should i get the OFC wire and how thick sould it be?

Thanks.

Larry

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 176
Internal wire
« Reply #34 on: 15 Feb 2003, 10:49 am »
Quote from: bart11073
Just a short question. Where should i get the OFC wire and how thick sould it be?

Thanks.


It depends on where you are and what type of cables you are looking for. You can get them from ordinary electronics shops and audio shops (if they are reasonably prices).

From any electronics shops, you can find auto/DC power cables, speaker cables and A/V interconnects which are made of OFC. Some audio shops carry good quality solid core OFC wires with acceptable prices.

The quality of the materials does make differences so that go for the quality you think it's reasonable to your budget and quality of other parts in your system. Though, the construction (solid core/twisted pair/stranded/coaxial/shielded), dielectrics (PVC/teflon/air) and layout/fixtures (relating to EMI) makes more differences to me.

I prefer twisted pair/solid core and use as short wires as possible. Multistrand is not good, in my opinion. It was introduced for flexibility, which is not the primary concern for diehard audiophiles. Rather, multistrand introduces complicated interaction between strands and behaviours in electronic/magnetic frields. So, I use solid cores as where as possible, which are also better resistant to vibrations in EM frields.

Silver coating for audio signals does not make much sense to me. Though the signals of various frequences travel at different speeds through different paths in different conductors, I doubt the silver coating could complement it and reconstruct a better envelop of the audio signals, rather creating heterogeneity in the conductor and providing a super highway for RFI, which primarily travels at the surface of a conductor. At audio frequences, the skin effect is very subtle, I think, which could be well masked by other effects resulted from components variations and EMI. So, I always go for pure copper. (But gold coating on connectors are good to keep a clean hence better contact. Keeping a good contact conneciton is essential. That is why some cleansing/corrosion prevention/electrical conductible liquids, or snake oils, can improve some bad contact connections. If the contact is good enough, it doesn't make any difference. And that's why it doesn't make any difference to some people with perfect connections so that they never believe it. The quality of a good contact connection depends on many factors including contact type, contact area, pressure, contact materials, age, air pollution in your local area, humidity, vibrations, electrical idle time, typical current patterns etc, etc. So no contact is the same as another thus the effects of those "snake oils" vary very much, and people start to fight over this by JUST basing on their own experience. I don't use any contact oils but always make sure the connection contact is good - large area, good pressure, clean surface etc. Good pressure is important.)

Silver coating is no good but silver solder is ok as it is homogenate. However, solder is a bad conductor. With so many unavoidable solder points around, that's why I don't warry too much of the copper purity. Just get wires of reasonably good quality and keep all wires as short as possible.

Copper is the second best common conductor. If you think it's not good enough, go for pure silver wires. Pure silver wires do not have the drawbacks of the silver coating over copper.

In wiring, don't allow wires flying in the air and prone to vibration, which interact to EM and generates signal noises. This is part of the reason why some people find the case vibration isolation make difference even to some SS amplifiers.  Keep the wires as close as possible to the earthed case surface is a good idea for EMI reasons too.

The above is just my way to look at wires.

(Some of you may find that the coated silver wire does sound better in your system. It is possibly true and the reason is more possibly that the effect of coating just happens to complement some flaws of your system and results in an overall balanced sound. My approach to this kind of problem is rather to use coating to balance it but correct the system flaws within the system and use a neutral wire.)

Sorry to give you a rather complex, off topic answer to your short question.  :roll: